CptPatriot Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I am trying to come up with a system to convert City of Heroes/Villains (CoX) characters to the Hero System. I'd like to do this in a way that takes the level of the character into account. I think the first step to doing this is to get an opinion based on those that have played it before. How many points would a 1st level character in CoX be based on? How level would the character be if they started on 250 points? 350? How much damage would be done at these levels? For a basis for comparison, let's use the Electrical Generation power set for the Blaster archetype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System There is no easy way to do this as level based systems do not scale in power the same way as point based ones (like HERO and GURPS). Does CoH/CoV have anything that represents being harder to hit (DCV) or Dodge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System There is no easy way to do this as level based systems do not scale in power the same way as point based ones (like HERO and GURPS). Does CoH/CoV have anything that represents being harder to hit (DCV) or Dodge? Three ways to mitigate damage. Don't get hit via Defense. Reduce Damage via Resist Damage Healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptPatriot Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System CoX goes on the assumption that you have a base 75% chance to hit, which can be modified by some in game items. They do have a system in place to avoid being hit and resisting damage, but it isn't an active system. There are minor powers that can add to avoiding getting hit, but it is relatively minor. They don't even take range into account for potentially missing attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System I would start by converting the power types and buffs over ... from there it should be relatively simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System Making a decent simulation of CoX is really easy using HERO. You just come up with lists of of pregenerated power's for the various sets. Electrical Blast, for example: Charged Bolts - 8d6 EB, Reduced End (1/2 End) Lightning Bolt - 12d6 EB Ball Lightning - 6d6 EB, Aoe (Radius) and so forth. However, making a very accurate model of a CoX character also means setting a LOT of ground rules and doing a lot of conversion math. Do you want to simulate the fact that all heroes can run on narrow surfaces like fences, sprint at 30 MPH and has a standing vertical of over 5 feet? How about the fact that all powers have limited range, but also doen't suffer from range penalties? Do you actually want to simulate things like the Drain Running and Drain SPD aspects of ice blast or Negative CSL's that are inflicted by a Dark Melee Smite? Do you simulate the squishy characters lack of resistance or defense with massive stun scores and ridiculous amounts of BODY, or do you give them actual PD/ED as they level up to represent the ever increasing hit points? Do you need a Perk for security level 20 so you can get a cape? Do players roll for damage, or use standard effect all the time? You know, except scrappers, who's powers can critical. If you want to calculate damage, you need to figure out how much all character do at level one in terms of Brawl to DC conversions, taking AT modifiers into account. Then you need to make your average thug just tough enough to go down after just a few hits from said attacks. Things like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System I am trying to come up with a system to convert City of Heroes/Villains (CoX) characters to the Hero System. I'd like to do this in a way that takes the level of the character into account. I think the first step to doing this is to get an opinion based on those that have played it before. How many points would a 1st level character in CoX be based on? How level would the character be if they started on 250 points? 350? How much damage would be done at these levels? For a basis for comparison, let's use the Electrical Generation power set for the Blaster archetype. Its a cute idea, but one I would do begin to undertake. Why? First... Lets assume you use the brawl index and get ALL the powers converted. Then, they pull an Issue 3 (Enhancement Diversification) on you OR they re-set the powerlevels (like every Issue), etc. You will have a TON of work to rework. Second... CoH/CoV has to take in standard Archtypes to balance group play in an MMO world. Champions has no such limitation. Get one empath healer and a standard group would be gold. Next, some of the points for powers goes WAY beyond normal campaign limits. Most of the AoE slows, AoE Knockdowns and AoE Debuffs are extremely nasty. Drop a 25% debuff to PD/ED and/or a 25% debuff to DCV and/or a 75% movement drain. Don't even go to entangles. Whats you strength? Does not matter, its all based on your point base vs my point base. Third... It gets worse when you get into Minion, LT, Boss, Elite Boss, Arch Villian/Hero, GM (Giant Monster, not Game Master - well... maybe some Game Masters:eg:). How would you like an opponent where you needed a specfic character to debuff the baddie OR you cant get past their recovery. I mean 75/75 damage reduction be damned, some of the GMs are gross. If I was to "play" a CoH/CoV based game, I would just use it for background and flavor. The intro zones would be great places for Heroic level street games (Skulls, Hellions, Clocks). Get into a Low Super Game then upper levels of the prior list still apply and more (more gang banger types, Circle of Thorns). The list goes on and on. The big issue is do you make CoH/CoV like the comic (lots of heroes but not as many as in the MMO) or do you make it like the MMO or do you make is so only the epics are aound and then a few extra heroes (like the PCs). However, I would not mind playing in such a game IF you ever get the kinks worked out GL to ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System Doing a mechanical conversion would be painful and not fun to play under, IMO. Pure mechanical translations between two systems are rarely worth doing unless they happen to synch up pretty closely to begin with. Doing a parallel conversion of the SFX and effects on the other hand is doable though if you strictly adhere to AT and power set restrictions all your really doing is enforcing a restrictive class and level scheme on the more wide open HERO System. Personally though, if I were going to do a conversion I'd go for look and feel, just pulling over the flavor elements and using the in-game stuff to inform my normal HERO System character building. After all, there's a lot of good content in CoH, particularly the different bad guy groups. I still play CoH after all these years, though I wasn't active for a long time in the middle. Still have fun running around at 50th level, and starting out a new character, but I lose interest from about levels 16 to 49; just don't have the patience anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System Personally though, if I were going to do a conversion I'd go for look and feel, just pulling over the flavor elements and using the in-game stuff to inform my normal HERO System character building. After all, there's a lot of good content in CoH, particularly the different bad guy groups. I still play CoH after all these years, though I wasn't active for a long time in the middle. Still have fun running around at 50th level, and starting out a new character, but I lose interest from about levels 16 to 49; just don't have the patience anymore. I think the feel for the environment is the key, mechanical conversion = yuck. BTW, Fedfensor and I still game together on CoH/CoV. Not as much recently are we are planning the Catalyst games for Champions. But, the twice a month TF is still a staple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Blackrock Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System I think the feel for the environment is the key' date=' mechanical conversion = yuck.[/quote'] I agree. Don't drive yourself crazy trying to convert everything, because it'd be incredibly hard to do, and, ultimately, kinda pointless. That's part of the appeal of HERO, no levels. Make what you want kind of thing. But as for the feel of the environment, I must admit, I've co-opted the Hollows and King's Row from CoH for my HERO setting. Basically, I couldn't figure out better names for the areas, and each is pretty much the same idea (Industrial and docks for King's Row, sunken, collapsed neighborhood for the Hollows), so, I just stole them. (SHH! Don't tell NCSoft!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System I'd probably just have my players pick a CoX archetype and then set a few arbitrary boundaries accordingly. For example, Controllers can't do more than 10d6 damage with any single attack, Blasters can't have PD/ED higher than 15, and so on down the line. I just pulled those numbers out of thin air, they're not important. Point is, CoX is basically just a very restricted HERO system anyway. Lay down some restrictions and it'll be recognizeable enough. ~Gabriel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System which supers would you want to transplant fom COH to CHAMPIONS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System which supers would you want to transplant fom COH to CHAMPIONS? As a general question, not many of them. Really. The Hero supers/villian supers the game is based around (Synapse, Manticore, Ghost Widow, Lord Recluse, etc) can pretty much be build in the HERO system. Most of the are just built on a HUGE point limit. To me, the cool ones to build are the Giant Monsters (but the need to be bigger). I mean, having a Clockwork Paladin or/Babbage stomping down the Garment District... who would not like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Certified Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System I mean' date=' having a Clockwork Paladin or/Babbage stomping down the Garment District... who would not like that [/quote'] Garment Workers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Re: Modeling a CoH/CoV character in the Hero System Garment Workers [takes the slap] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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