Senses in a multipower--legal build?

[Speedball]

Hi All,

 

Long time player, first time GM-to be here, so thanks in advance for whatever help you can be. I think I remember that multipowers aren't supposed to have senses in them, but I could be wrong, as I don't have either my 5th Ed or hero designer with me at the moment. I'm going through a player's character write-up to offer comments.

 

A little more info in case you need it: the character has an "eye-based" multipower that includes N-Ray, Night vision, microscopic, range mods, telepathy (he can see the truth) and a couple of other things.

 

The campaign is of the 100+100 Weird West variety.

 

Thanks again for any help.

[Fabricati]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

I'd allow it, but that's because I think it's kind of funny that he can't use all these senses at once. Make him pay a point- "Always has a pad of paper", so he can write it all down while he's observin'.

[Speedball]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

As it's currently built, he could use more than one at once, though. He has plenty of points in the multi. Does that change your call to allow it?

[Fabricati]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

As he pays more points in the pool cost, the difference between having them as a Multipower and just bying them normally becomes vanishingly small.

 

I still think he'll look a right twit trying to write all this down, like a Western Columbo...

[Heckus]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

You're not supposed to put 0 END persistent powers in frameworks (senses, armor, LS) and the framework represents that they all come from a similar source/ability (not just "here are some random powers i want cheaply"). A multipower in particular is used to represent "one power" that you can use a variety of different ways. That said, you see it all the time with things like utility belts. If you declare it's a conditional use power (like on continuous charges, or costs END, or as a device that must be activated and deactivated) then it's usually ok (GM's descretion). In these cases you've made the power no longer always on or persistent.

 

Example:

 

Multi-spectral goggles:

 

Multipower (OIF = Goggles, -1/2)

ultra-slot: Telescopic vision

Ultra-slot: IR vision

Ultra-slot: Microscopic Vision

Ultra-slot: "spectral analysis", Detect energy (like radiation or magnetic fields)

 

In this situation he can only use one sense at a time, they all come from the same source, and they are dependent on the goggles (the "source" of the multipower").

 

Now, if he wants to be able to use multiple senses at the same time and they are just powers that he has with no obvious link then i'd recommend making him buy them independently.

[Alibear]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

Buy the powers with lockout. If one is on the others are not. No MP.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

I'd allow it... however, I'd suggest not using Telepathy. Make it a sight-based "Detect Lies" ability instead. He can see truth or deception, but he can't look at somebody and know their deepest secrets... unless that's the power you want to have him use.

 

In which case, to get full value, he'd either be just as well off buying them individually, or he'll drop his AP limit so that the MPower is a real limitation, so....

[Arkham]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

They aren't prohibited from being in a Multipower, but they are allowed only with GM permission. That makes it entirely up to you. If it seems like the appropriate way to build the concept, then I would say 'Go for it'.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

You're not supposed to put 0 END persistent powers in frameworks (senses' date=' armor, LS)...[/quote']

 

You are confusing the more restrictive requirements of an Elemental Control with the general requirements of all frameworks which includes Multipowers and Variable Power Pools.

 

from various sections of 5er:

THE SPECIAL POWERS ARE:

Duplication

Enhanced Senses

Endurance Reserve

Extra Limbs

Find Weakness

Flash Defense

Knockback Resistance

Lack Of Weakness

Luck

Mental Defense

Power Defense

Skills

 

RESTRICTIONS ON SLOT PURCHASES

Characters cannot purchase Special Powers and Talents in Power Frameworks, except with the GM’s permission. For example, characters generally cannot buy Flash Defense or Enhanced Senses in a Power Framework — but most GMs would allow a character who had a “Gadget Pool” VPP to do so if he defined the Special Power as an appropriate, commonly-available object (such as sunglasses or a telescope).

 

ENDURANCE

Normally, all slots in an Elemental Control must cost END or have the Reduced Endurance Advantage (characters can buy the END cost down to 0 if they wish). Characters cannot buy Powers

that inherently cost no END (for example, FTL Travel) as a slot in an EC (or as part of a slot with two Linked powers) unless they take the Limitation Costs Endurance, or the GM permits it. (If a character buys Costs Endurance for a slot, he can take either the regular or “only costs END to activate the power” version of that Limitation, if appropriate).

[The Hawk God]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

My answer is this:

 

Would it be fun?

 

if the prospects for fun are positive then allow it.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

I've never had a problem with enhanced senses in a multipower. Sometimes it just makes sense. However I have had GMs who had a problem with it. It really is one of those open-to-interpretation kind of rules apparently.

[JmOz]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

You're not supposed to put 0 END persistent powers in frameworks (senses' date=' armor, LS) and the framework represents that they all come from a similar source/ability (not just "here are some random powers i want cheaply"). A multipower in particular is used to represent "one power" that you can use a variety of different ways. [/quote']

 

That would be incorect. EC's are not suppose to have persistent powers in them, for that matter they are also the one's that have the one source rule. A MP is more of a game construct saying that these points are a pool that con be used for one of these effects, their is no limitation on persistent powers, and while a unified F/x is indeed apropriate it is not the "one power" concept you are indicating.

[Checkmate]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

So to answer your question, no it isn't legal.

[Arkham]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

So to answer your question' date=' no it isn't legal.[/quote']

 

Except that it is legal, with GM permission. And he, being the GM, gets to choose.

[Lucius]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

Now, if he wants to be able to use multiple senses at the same time and they are just powers that he has with no obvious link then i'd recommend making him buy them independently.

 

I think the link here is pretty obvious. You don't need any enhanced sensory powers to see it.

 

I'd certainly allow it unless it seems that there'd be no disadvantage to having the senses in the multipower. And it does mean that, unlike normally senses, he has to declare the use of one every time. Can't be constantly scanning the environment with every available sense.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Making sense of the palindromedary

[McCoy]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

They aren't prohibited from being in a Multipower' date=' but they are allowed only with GM permission. That makes it entirely up to you. If it seems like the appropriate way to build the concept, then I would say 'Go for it'.[/quote']

And there are precidents in the source material. Bravestarr couldn't use Eyes of the Hawk and Ears of the Wolf at the same time. When Jim Ellison (The Sentinel) used one of his enhanced senses not only his other enhanced senses but even his normal senses were locked out.

[Checkmate]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

Except that it is legal' date=' with GM permission. And he, being the GM, gets to choose.[/quote']

Yeah but so is everything. An OCV 1 hits a DCV 300 on a 17 or less with GM permission.

[Arkham]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

Yeah but so is everything. An OCV 1 hits a DCV 300 on a 17 or less with GM permission.

 

Not within the rules, no.

 

An OCV 1 hits a DCV 300 on a 3 only. The book does not allow it to hit on a die roll of 17 with GMs permission. Doing so is called 'breaking the rules', and while Steve Long isn't going to come and break down your door if you do that, it also isn't specified as an option in the rulebook.

 

But putting senses in a multipower is specifically permitted with GM oversite.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

I often allow senses into a multi-power, depends a lot on the SFX of the other powers.

 

plus, when I do so, I always enforce other limitation on the senses, such as Costs END, slot lockout, extra time, or gestures.

 

a sense slot should never be just a "half-phase, up with persicope" quickie, IMHO.

[JmOz]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

I often allow senses into a multi-power, depends a lot on the SFX of the other powers.

 

plus, when I do so, I always enforce other limitation on the senses, such as Costs END, slot lockout, extra time, or gestures.

 

a sense slot should never be just a "half-phase, up with persicope" quickie, IMHO.

 

Not disagreeing with you (well I do, but this is not to be read confrontationaly) but could you explain why you feel this way?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Senses in a multipower--legal build?

 

I think the biggest reason to not allow them in multipowers is the idea of shtick preservation. If allowed, a single 'super senses' slot could be added to any character with a typical 60 reserve 'attack multipower'. Another reason is their frequently dual usefulness in both combat and non-combat situations.

 

This is why I avoided directly adding senses to the multipower of my version of Superman (I did build a Succor-to-senses slot that would require GM approval though).