Power Level of a the Mafia

[薔薇語]

So one of the characters I am building has "Hunted by Viktor Mogilevich (Russian Mafia)." A fictitious leader of the Russian Mafia. They are after the character for revenge (personal honor and all). My question now is, how powerful would you consider such orginizations? The hero is about 500pts and I have the Hunted as being as powerful. Does this seem appropriate to anyone else? I normally would put it as more powerfull but 500 pts is quite a bit to go up against. Thoughts?

 

La Rose

[Clonus]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

So one of the characters I am building has "Hunted by Viktor Mogilevich (Russian Mafia)." A fictitious leader of the Russian Mafia. They are after the character for revenge (personal honor and all). My question now is, how powerful would you consider such orginizations? The hero is about 500pts and I have the Hunted as being as powerful. Does this seem appropriate to anyone else? I normally would put it as more powerfull but 500 pts is quite a bit to go up against. Thoughts?

 

La Rose

 

The mundane Russian mafia would be less powerful than a 500 point character. But of course in a world of superhumans there are going to be superhitmen.

[JmOz]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

My personal guideline has always been the organisation is more powerful...don't care who you are, at the simplist level they can HIRE someone who is more powerful than you, thus making them have people who are thus they are more powerful than you (Make sense?...clear as mud you say, good, just go with the stream of contioutness of it all and ignore my bad spelling)

 

A High ranking member is usualy "As powerful", as I figure he can probably make the same kind of nuesence for you but not as often

 

Les powerful is lower ranking members (3rd tier or lower as a general guideline)

 

and don't forget non combat influence...most will have that as well

[Split Decision]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

You don't need to compare point values. The normal police are usually more powerful than a superhero built on any number of pionts, since the superhero is at least apparently law-abiding. The rule of law (or in the case of the mafia, the rule of the street) usually trumps an individual over the long run.

[Clonus]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

You don't need to compare point values. The normal police are usually more powerful than a superhero built on any number of pionts' date=' since the superhero is at least apparently law-abiding. The rule of law (or in the case of the mafia, the rule of the street) usually trumps an individual over the long run.[/quote']

 

Spider-Man begs to differ. He was hunted by the cops for a good 20 years, and it was just a nuisance to him. To be sure, they weren't usually trying to kill him, just bring him in but by no stretch of the imagination could they be called more powerful than him as a Hunter.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

Spider-Man begs to differ. He was hunted by the cops for a good 20 years' date=' and it was just a nuisance to him. To be sure, they weren't usually trying to kill him, just bring him in but by no stretch of the imagination could they be called more powerful than him as a Hunter.[/quote']

 

In Spidey's case, though, he probably had the police as a very low-level Hunted, maybe just a five-pointer if that. It is not like they were going out of their way to "get" him either - don't believe they called up the Avengers or the FF or the military, as they certainly would if a major villain started rocking around NYC.

 

Possibly, he did not have a Police Hunted at all - most police confrontations in his case seem to have been the results of having J Jonah Jamison (and the Daily Bugle) as a Hunted, plus fall-out from the machinations of various villains.

[Utech]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

Naturally, you should have a talk with your GM to make sure that he's interested in running a game with this particular Hunted in it. Assuming that he's interested, you have nothing more to worry about.

 

Your GM's job is to ensure that the Russian mafia in his game will be as powerful as your character. Whether or not that is realistic shouldn't be much of a consideration in most games.

[CGlied]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

I'd have no problem agreeing that the Russian mob would be as powerful as superhero. Even one built on 500 points.

[Split Decision]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

In Spidey's case, though, he probably had the police as a very low-level Hunted, maybe just a five-pointer if that. It is not like they were going out of their way to "get" him either - don't believe they called up the Avengers or the FF or the military, as they certainly would if a major villain started rocking around NYC.

 

Possibly, he did not have a Police Hunted at all - most police confrontations in his case seem to have been the results of having J Jonah Jamison (and the Daily Bugle) as a Hunted, plus fall-out from the machinations of various villains.

 

There was a stretch in the late 90s when someone put a bounty on his head, and he was hunted by everybody... and it really did cramp his style. That was why he invented his four alternate identities and hung up Spidey for a few months.

 

I think Spidey has a Hunted: New York Police Dept. (mild) (More Powerful, NCI, Limited Geography) 8-. That's a 10 I think.

[薔薇語]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

There was a stretch in the late 90s when someone put a bounty on his head, and he was hunted by everybody... and it really did cramp his style. That was why he invented his four alternate identities and hung up Spidey for a few months.

 

I think Spidey has a Hunted: New York Police Dept. (mild) (More Powerful, NCI, Limited Geography) 8-. That's a 10 I think.

 

When it comes to a single cities police department I wouldn't make it MoPow. I say this because on average the NYCPD isn't going to be able to bring any real force to bare on him. Sure they are an annoyance and he would rather not have them hunting him, but the only reason they are is because he chooses not to attack them. So unless the city in question has a Supers Suppression Squad in it, and they are going to be after this paticular hero, I most likely would never make them MoPow. And then depending on the power of the Hero I may or may not make them As Pow.

 

La Rose.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

Another relevant factor: whether the PC has significant non-combat influence of his own. Sure, the Mafia ( or other organized crime ) can cause a person trouble through indirect means, but if the PC in question is, say, a billionaire industrialist, or one a first name basis with the POTUS? It becomes a question of competing influence and resources.

 

That said, I'd be inclined to rank the Russian Mob as a higher threat level than, say, the Mafia. In the Champions Universe, the traditional niche of the Mafia is often supplanted by VIPER, thus undermining their biggest resource, extensive political and social influence. Meanwhile, the Russian Mob has access to extensive ex-KGB talent and large amounts of ex-Soviet military hardware. This likely includes both superhumans, and supertech weaponry.

 

So, getting a single local gang of Mafiya pissed at you, is worse than getting the local Mafia angry, and likely worse than getting a single VIPER Nest angry. Getting the collected Russian Mob pissed at you, is worse than getting the whole Mafia angry, but not as bad as getting VIPER as a whole angry.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

So one of the characters I am building has "Hunted by Viktor Mogilevich (Russian Mafia)." A fictitious leader of the Russian Mafia. They are after the character for revenge (personal honor and all). My question now is, how powerful would you consider such orginizations? The hero is about 500pts and I have the Hunted as being as powerful. Does this seem appropriate to anyone else? I normally would put it as more powerfull but 500 pts is quite a bit to go up against. Thoughts?

 

La Rose

 

Now, this specific case. . .

 

I'd have to know more about the hero in question, and the mob leader. Does the hero have any real NCI? Does he have a particularly harsh Secret Identity?

 

Is Viktor Mogilevich a pocket Lex Luthor, with a lucrative legitimate front corporation and good PR? Is he ex-intelligence, with a criminal operation resembling a freelance espionage organization? Is he just the hardened thug who controls the gunrunning at the waterfront, with a bunch of guys with AKs as his men?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

Power of a Hunted is, and should be, more than "Can the beat the character up in person"

 

They, in fact, probably couldn't.

 

But they can get into his life in a major way. Implicate him in crimes, go after DNPCs, heck the right contacts and the Hunted can get them audited by the IRS. Hated by the public. Take hostages.

 

If at any given plot the Hunted can maneuver the PC into a position of inferiority in some aspect they are More Powerful most likely, especially if they have Extensive Non-Combat Infuence. In fact I almost always assume NCI means more powerful unless the PC also has NCI of a major source.

 

And of course, every now and then, the PC does get the crap beat out of him by someone the Hunted has hired on or manipulated into fighting the PC.

 

I tend to lean towards Organizational Hunted as More Powerful and Individual Hunted as equal or less.

[OddHat]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

"How powerful" is something the GM and player work out, and doesn't have much to do with how powerful an organization is in the real world, or even in fiction outside of your campaign. The Atlantic Milk Marketting Board can be "More Powerful" if the GM decides to give it Milk Master agents riding Cyborg Cows.

 

If 500 point Super Dude wanted a More Powerful Russian Mafia in my campaign, I'd probably hit him with squads of ex-Soviet military men using high power (by the campaign's standards) military hardware. Let him face a pair of 5 man teams with tank killer weapons once in a while, in public, between his pregnant fiance and a bus full of nuns. And there's always the former hero of the USSR Vladamir Cossak (aka Cosmo), now a ranking mobster carving out a bloody chunk of North America to call his own.

 

An As Powerful Russian Mob doesn't get to use those heavy hitters, at least not as often.

 

And as has been pointed out above, it's more than just "can they beat me up"; organizations, even without Non Combat Influence, can confront your character in ways and on levels that lone individuals just can't.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

When it comes to a single cities police department I wouldn't make it MoPow. I say this because on average the NYCPD isn't going to be able to bring any real force to bare on him. Sure they are an annoyance and he would rather not have them hunting him, but the only reason they are is because he chooses not to attack them. So unless the city in question has a Supers Suppression Squad in it, and they are going to be after this paticular hero, I most likely would never make them MoPow. And then depending on the power of the Hero I may or may not make them As Pow.

 

La Rose.

 

If the character takes the points, I as the GM will then make the NPC organization live up to the hype. In a Marvel or CU world, the cops have access to Stark tech or the equivalent. This might not be an everyday thing, but it is certainly in the realm of possibility. By the way, a SWAT team run in a smart way is a serious threat to anyone who is not bulletproof. A SWAT team with regular cops for back-up took down Rorschach. A SWAT team almost took out Batman in Year One. Don't sleep on things like teamwork and access to heavy weapons.

 

Now if your guy is Superman or someone similar, the GM should not be allowing you to take those points in the first place. Issues with local cops would at most be just some more backstory or a few points for bad reputation.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

Hmm. . . I take a slightly orthogonal viewpoint. To an extent, the opportunistic element of a Hunted shouldn't really effect the strength of the Hunted. This is because pretty much any Hunted, down to the feeblest LessPow, is going to take advantage of their initiative in order to target the hero when and where it will actually do any good. Its an advantage intrinsic in the fact that they are *hunting* you, as opposed to being hunted. They get to choose the time and place of engagement.

 

Instead, I would factor this initiative advantage into the occurance frequency. An 8- Hunted is probably *only* going to ever show up when they have a situational advantage. A 14- Hunted, on the other hand, because they are doing their best to hound you constantly, will often strike with suboptimal opportunity, simply because there are only so many optimal opportunities available.

[Ice9]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

How common are 500-point characters in the campaign setting - are there many heroes/villains of that magnitude? If so, then sure, the mafia could be as or more powerful, just by hiring the right supervillains. If not, then I'd be inclined to go less powerful, but with the extensive NCI option. However, it's possible that they could be as powerful via military hardware and numbers, even without equivalent supers on their payroll.

[薔薇語]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

So I decided to go with MoPow as that makes most sense to me, and will provide for better game situations IMO.

 

Attached is a simi-final write up in HD3 and Background in Word.

 

One of reasons I like the character so much is that you don't get to see to many good religious heroes. The idea of a divinely inspired hero (maybe is and may be isn't) is nice to me, even though I am not particularly religious myself.

 

Enjoy,

La Rose

[Metaphysician]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

Okay, given the descriptions? Definitely MoPow. Your a highly skilled brick, but with only 17/17 resistant, not even hardened? He can hurt you with conventional military hardware if your not careful. Which, given it sounds like he's basically the Kingpin. . .

[ghost-angel]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

Your statement implies that Power of the Hunted is based off of physical confrontation only. Which doesn't do the Disadvantage or the Character any service at all.

[薔薇語]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

Okay' date=' given the descriptions? Definitely MoPow. Your a highly skilled brick, but with only 17/17 resistant, not even hardened? He can hurt you with conventional military hardware if your not careful. Which, given it sounds like he's basically the Kingpin. . .[/quote']

 

I wasn't going for quite the level of the Kingpin but that is a good reference point though.

 

Also, I have continued to edit Sebastian after posting him and increased his defenses. It is planned that he will probably come up against 18-20d6 of damage (just slightly more than he can put out in a normal attack). But I never once noticed that none of it was hardened, so thank you. I'm trying to go through and scrape points out of other things to make room.

 

Thanks for the catch,

La Rose

[Metaphysician]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

Your statement implies that Power of the Hunted is based off of physical confrontation only. Which doesn't do the Disadvantage or the Character any service at all.

 

No, but the nature of the Hunted rules is a bit vaguer on the matter of social attacks, since NCI is broken into a separate modifier. My rule of thumb is, use physical ( not necessarily combat ) threat level as the baseline for determining power scale, then apply NCI as needed. You can then modify if necessary, but you should only rarely need to ( after all, the same money and influence that buys social threats, can also buy physical threats ).

 

Or, put differently, Viktor does indeed pose a MoPow social threat to the PC, here. However, he also poses a MoPow physical threat, and the level of physical threat he poses, is the primary matter of debate.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

I disagree - the Power of a Hunted is the overall Power in all arena's - especially if the Hunted has NCI.

 

Or put differently - no the physical threat is NOT the primary matter of debate. It is an ASPECT of Power. Not Power itself.

[OddHat]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

I disagree - the Power of a Hunted is the overall Power in all arena's - especially if the Hunted has NCI.

 

Or put differently - no the physical threat is NOT the primary matter of debate. It is an ASPECT of Power. Not Power itself.

 

I've always felt it comes down to just how the Hunted usually menaces the PC.

 

Action Man is hunted by Dave the Detective.

 

If DtD usually menaces AM by getting information about AM and trying to blackmail him. DtD is breaking the law himself, and thus isn't well protected by it. If AM ever caught DtD, he could slap him around pretty easily. Sounds like Less Powerful with NCI to me.

 

If DtD gathers information about AM, then uses his extensive contacts in the police and newspapers to make AM's life difficult, as well as sometimes targetting AM's day job, friends and family, all the while keeping far enough away and with legal cover so that AM can't directly confront DtD to put a stop to it, he's effectively As Powerful with NCI. Sure, AM could squish DtD if he could catch him, but the difficulty of that and the possible consequences make that very tough.

 

If DtD manages to win an election, becoming the new Mayor of Campaign City and gaining a measure of control over the police force, greater access to all the movers and shakers in Campaign City, and great legal protection, then carefully goes after AM without ever breaking the law himself (at least in any way likely to get him caught), he may be More Powerful than AM, with NCI. All of Action Man's power doesn't mean much if he can't actually apply it.

 

Other GMs may handle it differently, of course.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Power Level of a the Mafia

 

The Mafia (in general) has been surplanted mostly by Viper in CU. Viper already does smuggling, drug running, gun running, protection, blackmail... add in loan sharking, prostitution and gambling and they've got a clean sweep.

(In my version, a number of the "30 founders" of Viper were Mafia kingpins. At the street level, the Mafia still looks the same... but when the Capes start interfering, the boys in Green show up.)

 

But in other people's campaigns, I'd say the Mob is as powerful as the GM wants it to be. Thier crimes are very profitable, and money buys hardware, training, and even mercenary supervillians (Lazer, MechAssassin, Blowtorch, Death Commando).