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How would you stat up gods in Hero System?


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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

This is one turning into one of those cases in which the HERO obsession with quantifying every last thing gets aggravating' date=' to me at least.[/quote']

 

 

Hairbrush: Aid 1 pip Com, useable on others, only for sighted people, OAF. :(

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Generally, societies except their deities from their own laws - The diety/ies in question are seen as having authority that supercedes their own laws/being the granter of laws, by virtue of the divinity/ies being seen as the highest authority of the land.

 

Other lands will generally have diffierent views, as may other deities, if the campaign world has more than one.

 

In the case of good/evil alignment worlds, priests could be the only way for mortals to truly successfully oppose the other side - Not counting the 'half-god' section of demigods as mortals.

 

'Not subject to normal physical laws' basically means, as I implied, but did not suffiiently explain, that the diety in question does not need to worry about gravity, or momentum, or time or other 'NPL'. Instead, they are bound by different laws. For example, for good gods, it could be that breaking any promise willingly results in an instant loss of godship. It could mean that they must respect every single word one of their fellow gods speaks (However 'fellow gods' is defined), or have every single word of theirs be null and void in a spiritual sense. It could mean that their own glory is tied to that of their followers directly - Treat Ego, Pre and Com not as fixed statistics, but as variables tied to the conduct of their followers.

Alternately, any action their followers take 'under orders' is supernaturally literally the same as an action they take.

 

I think you're developing some interesting ideas here.

 

Perhaps Kristopher has a point about quantifying every little thing, but maybe my idea of making a Detity an "AI" in "a different dimension" could be refined a little more. A Base, as I recall, has to pay for an extradimensional location, and perhaps an AI should too, or anything else that is "out of this world" by default - either that, or have some kind of Extradimensional Move.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And an out of this world palindromedary

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

I didn't bother with "megadamage". In a fantasy world where an experienced guardsman is 25 points and elite soldiery 50 points' date=' the 350 point Avatar of Death could wade through common soldiery like an ordinary man walking through grass. Their opponents weren't ordinary people, but other immortals, ancient dragons and powerful beings from beyond the pale: in other words, the sort of things polytheistic deities generally tackled in the stories.[/quote']

 

Indeed, whether it's gods being different from mortals or superheroes being different from "normals", the HERO system doesn't need special vulnerabilities or altered rules or special immunities to deal with the differences.

 

I'm not sure why it offends my game design sensibilities so much, but I have to give myself a moment to chill every time I see something like "all normal weapons take a -1/4 disad: do half damage against superhumans" or whatever.

 

You need normal weapons to be less effective against superhumans? Raise the defenses for superhumans, or change the damage for normal weapons.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

I'm not sure why it offends my game design sensibilities so much, but I have to give myself a moment to chill every time I see something like "all normal weapons take a -1/4 disad: do half damage against superhumans" or whatever.

 

You need normal weapons to be less effective against superhumans? Raise the defenses for superhumans, or change the damage for normal weapons.

 

That's pretty much my approach as well. I think it's because some GM's resist the idea of "Give the PCs the points to build what you want them to build" - they're more wedded to fixed point totals, so they build all heroes to the same levels and then try to scale the game world to match.

 

Meh. It's doable, but it seems like a lot more work.

 

cheers, Mark

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Indeed, whether it's gods being different from mortals or superheroes being different from "normals", the HERO system doesn't need special vulnerabilities or altered rules or special immunities to deal with the differences.

 

I'm not sure why it offends my game design sensibilities so much, but I have to give myself a moment to chill every time I see something like "all normal weapons take a -1/4 disad: do half damage against superhumans" or whatever.

 

You need normal weapons to be less effective against superhumans? Raise the defenses for superhumans, or change the damage for normal weapons.

I don't think my Healing: Resurection idea fits there; it doesn't make a diety invulnerable. They can still be slain by 'ordinary folk'; they'll just come back (Year and a day? One hundred years? Ritual?) if it wasn't divine damage.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

I ran a game a while back where all of the players were immortals (and in my game world' date=' in many places, the immortals are worshipped as gods). They got their "immortality" via duplication: many multiples of copies with the limitation that only one copy could be active at a time, and all the other bodies were lifeless, waiting to be animated. Kill one body - be it never so thoroughly - and they'll just pop up in another. To really "kill" an immortal, you have to kill [b']all[/b] of the bodies, all of them hidden in many different places, guarded by fanatic priesthoods, or in a cave whose entrance is under the sea, in a castle of brass surrounded by a lake of fire and guarded by a dragon - or simply sealed in a caisse below the floor of a peasant's hut.

 

Cost a bit, but gave pretty close to guaranteed immortality.

 

 

cheers, Mark

 

Sounds kind of like the Eternals.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

I've been making the Deific Avatars the Physical Manifestations of Transdimensional powers.

 

However, simply by taking Telekinesis and an Images power and making them Transdimensional, you can create an avatar capable of interacting with the world and the characters, but that cannot be attacked successfully except by means of things like Dispel.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that we're still planning to do that one Weird Science Fiction Deity.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Sounds kind of like the Eternals.

 

The comic? I've never read it. I ran this back in medical school, in the '80's, so I dunno if it was out then. I actually swiped the idea from Van Vogt's "World of Null-A" and then mixed it with "Nine princes in Amber" - so the PCs were playas in a vast interdimensional political conflict.

 

cheers, Mark

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

STUVENDA, Legendary Supercomputer of the Bayang

 

 

Background/History: The history of the idea of the “Influencing Machine” as a paranoid delusion goes back to the late 18th century, when the malevolent powers of such devices were attributed to “pneumatic chemistry” and “magnetic fluids.” As science, and science fiction, have progressed, the delusions reported by the mentally ill have kept pace through mesmerizing gases, radio waves, and orbital mind control lasers.

 

The “Legendary Supercomputers” or “God Machines” such as Stuvenda are obviously the same sort of idea. The same conspiracy theorists who claim that many prominent humans are actually robots piloted by miniature lizard like aliens (The Bayang) sometimes go on to say that these aliens are in turn ruled by a “distributed artificial intelligence” that somehow inhabits their robots and other machines, and to which these imaginary alien pygmies hope their own personalities and identities will be “uploaded” as a reward for faithful service – a peculiarly secular vision of an afterlife to suit a very odd God. Unfortunately, some people who have fallen prey to these beliefs have sought to destroy the “Alien God Machine” by destroying what they conceive to be the machinery that supports its consciousness, resulting in charges of assault brought against them by the persons they believed to be robots under the control of this “Legendary Supercomputer.”

 

Personality/Motivation: The specific fictional entity named “Stuvenda” has reportedly claimed to exist in order to “Make the Earth safe for the Bayang.”

 

Quote: “No, we have no intention of “reprogramming your brain” nor of “replacing you with a robot double” or any such ridiculous thing. Most of what you think you know is either your own errors and delusions, or misinformation fed to you – not necessarily from us, either. Feel free to reveal our existence to anyone you can get to listen. Who do you think will believe you?”

 

“I am baffled, officer. These people seem to think that I am a robot or alien or something of the sort. No, I won't press charges if they leave quietly now. I just hope they understand that if they return, I will have to take out restraining orders."

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

 

23 DEX 39 14- OCV: 8/DCV: 8

28 INT 18 15- PER Roll 15-

29 EGO 38 15- ECV: 10

4 SPD 7 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12

 

 

Total Characteristic Cost: 102

 

Cost Powers END

30 Impressive Legendary Supercomputer: PRE +30 (30 Active Points)

15 Alien tech: Power Defense (15 points)

9 Thinking machine: Mental Defense (15 points total)

Robots: Robots directly controlled by the "God Machine." Considered "Unbreakable focus" by ordinary forces, but putting one in a situation where it cannot survive without revealing its nature will usually cause it to self-destruct.

35 3) Programmable appearance: Sight, Hearing, Smell/Taste, Touch and Radio Groups and Spatial Awareness Images 1" radius, +/-5 to PER Rolls, Alterable Size, Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (62 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), IIF (-1/4) 5

Notes: Normally the robot will take the form of a specific human identity.

24 4) Telekinesis (30 STR), Fine Manipulation (55 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), No Range (from focus) (-1/2), Linked (Programmable appearance; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4) 5

Notes: Because one expects a person to be able to exert Strength, and because there are readily obvious ways to try to restrain that, the focus is considered Obvious for this power.

7 5) Endurance Reserve (65 END, 5 REC) Reserve: (11 Active Points); IIF (-1/4), Linked (Programmable appearance; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4); REC: (5 Active Points); 6 Recoverable (access to power source) Charges (-1/4), IIF (-1/4), Linked (Programmable appearance; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4)

20 6) 16x number of robots (20 Active Points)

Sensors. All such senses are built into the robots (see above) but these are not bought on focus because in any encounter with a Bayang Supercomputer it has probably seeded subtle sensor "bugs" throughout the area and/or has area under surveilance with long range sensors.

30 1) High Range Radio Perception (Radio Group), Discriminatory, Perceive into a related group of dimensions, Rapid: x10

5 2) Nightvision

5 3) Infrared Perception (Sight Group)

5 4) Ultraviolet Perception (Sight Group)

3 5) Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group)

10 6) Discriminatory with Smell/Taste Group

10 7) Microscopic ( x100) with Sight Group

140 Variable Power Pool, 100 base + 40 control cost, (150 Active Points); Limited Special Effect Very Common SFX (Alien Technology; -1/4)

 

Perks

60 Robots, Agents, etc.: Follower

55 Secret Bases, hidden space ships, etc: Vehicles & Bases

10 Above Top Secret: Access (Hidden (-5 to Skill Rolls))

5 An obvious paranoid delusion, no such thing could exist.: Anonymity

5 We ARE the Internet: Computer Link

2 Robot Replacement: Deep Cover

2 Robot Replacement: Deep Cover

2 Robot Replacement: Deep Cover

1 False Identity

1 False Identity

1 False Identity

1 False Identity

 

Talents

3 Absolute Time Sense

3 Bump Of Direction

5 Eidetic Memory

3 Lightning Calculator

8 Speed Reading (x1,000)

17 Universal Translator 20- (25 Active Points); Limited Power Only languages that would have been known to the Bayang who make up the collective. (-1/2)

 

Skills

9 Computer Programming 18-

5 +5 with Computer Programming (10 Active Points); Limited Power Self Only (-1)

We are a Legendary Supercomputer

3 1) Deduction 15-

5 2) Analyze: Robots 16-

3 3) Analyze: Technology 15-

3 4) Analyze: Computers 15-

3 5) Analyze: Cultural Phenomena 15-

3 6) Analyze: Political Situations 15-

3 7) Cryptography 15-

3 8) Inventor 15-

3 9) Tactics 15-

5 10) Systems Operation 16-

5 11) Navigation (Air, Dimensional, Hyperspace, Space) 15-

20 12) +2 Overall

5 13) Cramming

5 14) Cramming

5 15) Cramming

3 Legendary Supercomputer Memory Banks , Scholar

2 1) KS: Bayang Factions 15-

2 2) KS: Planet Earth 15-

3 3) KS: Ongoing Bayang Plots 16-

2 4) KS: History of Bayang Presence and Activities on or near Earth 15-

3 5) KS: Who's Who of Earth: Powerful and Influential People 16-

3 6) KS: Who's Who of Earth: Scientists, Engineers, Inventors 16-

2 7) KS: Conspiracy Theories and Conspiracy Theorists 15-

2 8) KS: Most recently reviewed knowledge 15-

3 The Minds of our Brilliant Scientists, Scientist

3 1) SS: Political Science 16-

4 2) SS: Robotics 17-

3 3) SS: Computer Science 16-

2 4) SS: Human Anatomy and Physiology 15-

2 5) SS: Dimensional Engineering 15-

2 6) SS: Human Technology 15-

Skills of Communication and Interaction

5 1) Acting 16-

5 2) Bureaucratics 16-

5 3) High Society 16-

3 4) Bribery 15-

3 5) Streetwise 15-

3 6) Conversation 15-

3 7) Interrogation 15-

3 8) Trading 15-

3 9) Seduction 15-

Skills we learned before being uploaded

3 1) Bugging 15-

3 2) Combat Driving 14-

3 3) Combat Piloting 14-

3 4) Demolitions 15-

3 5) Concealment 15-

3 6) Stealth 14-

3 7) Disguise 15-

3 8) Mimicry 15-

3 9) Electronics 15-

3 10) Mechanics 15-

3 11) Security Systems 15-

3 12) Lockpicking 14-

5 13) Forgery 16-

2 14) Weaponsmith (Robotic Weapons) 15-

14 15) TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles, Mecha, Combat Aircraft, Helicopters, Industrial & Exploratory Spacecraft, Large Military Ships, Large Motorized Boats, Large Planes, Military Spacecraft, Mobile Space Stations, Personal Use Spacecraft, Small Military Ships, Small Motorized Boats, Small Planes, Submarines, Two-Wheeled Motorized Ground Vehicles

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 751

Total Cost: 853

 

900+ Disadvantages

20 Psychological Limitation: Loyal - own faction first, entire species second (Very Common, Strong)

5 Psychological Limitation: Consensus being - contains the consciousness of dozens of Bayang (Uncommon, Moderate)

10 Distinctive Features: Speaks in third person, except when “in role” as a purported Human. (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

5 Reputation: Shadowy puppet master behind the shadowy puppet masters who really run everything, 8- (Extreme; Known Only To A Small Group - very paranoid conspiracy theorists)

10 Rivalry: Professional (Other Bayang Factions; Rival is More Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry)

0 Hunted by conspiracy whackos: 8- (Less Pow, Limited Geographical Area (often in mental wards), Harshly Punish)

 

Total Disadvantage Points: 50

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Copyright Palindromedary Enterprises. We could tell you where we got the idea, but then we'd have to reprogram you.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

To answer the initial question:

 

How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

I'd say, start with a thousand points. Even trying to make small Gods, I come up close to that number.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders if we're going to try Mystery Man's "Secret God"

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

To further expand on the 'intrinsinc quality' idea' date=' a fringe benefit 'Not subject to mortal law' would also be appropriate. [/quote']

 

Why?

 

They're not subject to mortal law simply because of the extent of their power, and that's it. They don't need a fringe benefit to be exempt, they're exempt because no one has the ability to force them to comply.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Why?

 

They're not subject to mortal law simply because of the extent of their power, and that's it. They don't need a fringe benefit to be exempt, they're exempt because no one has the ability to force them to comply.

 

The separation of secular law and church law was a device manufactured by humans during the middle ages. So I'm with Kristopher on this one - Monasteries should take it as a fringe benefit, not the Gods of those Monasteries.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

I believe I explained myself sufficiently in that post' date=' but to repeat - Societies generally see their gods as exempt from their laws, because their gods are seen as the arbiters of their laws.[/quote']

 

Well, maybe in the theocratic societies - or if the laws were written by particularly religious people at the time.

 

I could see it as being in a fantasy setting where Gods actually existed - but in the real world Gods are not seen as the arbiters of a society's laws. Except as I mentioned above. Hence why - in the medieval period - there was secular law and church law.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

I believe I explained myself sufficiently in that post' date=' but to repeat - Societies generally see their gods as exempt from their laws, because their gods are seen as the arbiters of their laws.[/quote']

 

And some of us don't see any reason that constitutes a "perk."

 

Personally, I think perks are over-rated and overdone.

 

If I don't have "Perk: Driver's License" in addition to a Transport Familiarity, is my character an unlicensed driver?

 

If I don't have a "Perk: Legally Married" are my character and my DNPC "living in sin?" For that matter, what if only one took the perk?

 

If I don't have a perk to be a citizen or legal resident does that make my character an illegal alien wherever they are?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Perk: Palindromedary

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Things like having a driver’s license, and being a legal residence of where ever the campaign is taking place are generally assumed unless not having those things is part of a character’s back-story. Not buying a base doesn’t mean your character is homeless, does it? In fact, an International Passport is only a one point perk, which would only be relevant in some campaigns. That’s why it’s a “Fringe Benefit”. Some campaigns use a lot of them some campaigns don’t. Some characters within the same campaign use many or none. I think the key word is Fringe. It’s not going to come up often, but it only cost 1 or 2 points (for most of them).

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

That depends entirely on the society - And my understanding is that many ancient (And a few modern) societies saw their gods as just that - Granted, I have my own opinion on wether they exist, as do others. But in most societies that have existed throughout history, in my understanding, trying to apply 'mortal law' to their gods would be seen by the society as blasphemy or their equivelent.

 

Granted, society, culture and personal perspective all play a part - And I have a feeling we're arguing two different points. ;)

 

@Lucius: That depends on the society and game. In a modern game, having the Perk: Driving License could be either automatic or something you have to buy.

 

In a fantasy game, the difference between gods and demigods could be that one is seen as above the law.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

If I don't have "Perk: Driver's License" in addition to a Transport Familiarity' date=' is my character an unlicensed driver?[/quote']

 

I don't know about the USA - but in Australia there are other benefits besides being licensed to drive. It's a form of identification that's widely used. I'd regard that as a perk (having only recently got one and having to use other forms of identification a lot).

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

That depends entirely on the society - And my understanding is that many ancient (And a few modern) societies saw their gods as just that - Granted' date=' I have my own opinion on wether they exist, as do others. [/quote']

Possibly - but I was thinking of European societies during the middle ages and earlier. For example the laws of the Anglosaxons were based on Wergeld - the price of a human in money. The highest criminal cost being for murdering the King.

Later Norman Laws and the the laws in the middle ages were of course based on Roman Laws and the Justinian Codex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_law)

 

However - in pantheons, Gods were subject to their own laws. The Greek Gods were subject to Zeus and in Asatru, the Norse Gods are subject to the laws of Odin. So while above mortal laws, it was entirely possible (and did occur during the lives of these religions) that a mortal could petition a hierarchically superior God of the pantheon for justice when a lower ranked God had done them wrong.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Plus' date=' it tends to be seen as one of the signs of full adulthood.[/quote']

 

Unfortunately so. There are a great many self assurances in cultures for those lacking in confidence. And if there aren't natural reasons to stratify and alienate people - us humans are quite happy to invent reasons to denigrate each other.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

I wouldn't call those who do so 'happy'. ;) I've found that those who degenerate others are miserable themselves.

 

Yeah - but they get off in the short term with schadenfreude. Mind you once that quickly passes, they need to find some other relief.

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