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How would you stat up gods in Hero System?


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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System? Edited and changed to apology. I regret the post. All I need to say is - I'm not really saying polytheistic Deities are all great role models. I'm just pointing out that monotheistic Ones aren't noticeably better in my observation.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary isn't sure Lucius always plays well with others either, but just shakes one of its heads and goes off to play well with a backandforthtrian

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Yes, but just how do you define said subsets?

 

Maybe next I'll do the God of some alien race. Maybe the Bayang....

 

Oh the humanity!!!!!

 

:D

 

Don't you mean, oh the Divinity?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Oh, the palindromedary

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Some legends have him actually holding up the Earth in Atlas’ place for a short time.

Just for the record: Atlas (and briefly, Hercules) was holding up the vault of the *sky*, not the earth. The ancient Greeks may not have known much, but they knew the difference between up and down.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Just for the record: Atlas (and briefly' date=' Hercules) was holding up the vault of the *sky*, not the earth. The ancient Greeks may not have known much, but they knew the difference between up and down.[/quote']

 

My mistake. I was thinking of the classic Atlas statue, no doubt, which is holding a celestial sphere, commonly mistaken for a globe.

 

As far as getting back to fiction what more can be said? It's totally dependant on your universe's definition of a god. If they fly around with us mortals and get wounded or killed, then right them up as super heroes. 350 points will enough to dissuade most 150 point starting characters from challenging a god for no good reason. Alternatively, have them be trans-dimensional and just right up “avatars” or “earthly vessels” for them to inhabit/use. What those will look like will, once again, be completely dependent on not only the game setting, but tone as well.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

I have my own definition of 'godlike'.

 

Well, that would probably be a good place to start. How about defining how you see gods functioning, what they do and how (not necessarily why) they do it? We could then offer specific suggestions on how to use the system to model those things. :)

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

As a general discussion thread, I like the discussion that has been happening.

 

However, if people want to discuss specific cases - How about cases where gods have some sort of aspect that separates them from mortals - A god isn't just more powerful; there's an actual quality. What is it, where did it come from and is it granted or inborn or both and etc. questions?

 

Naturally, stating up is part of it.

 

Divine Authority: 'Fringe' Benefit: Just Authority, as: 'Federal/National Police Powers, International Police Powers, Local Police Powers, Low Justice, High Justice (As 'License To Kill'), Psionic Police Powers, Temporal Police Powers, Right To Marry', Membership (Divinity: 20 pts), God: 40 pts

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Edited and changed to apology. I regret the post.

 

All I need to say is - I'm not really saying polytheistic Deities are all great role models.

 

I'm just pointing out that monotheistic Ones aren't noticeably better in my observation.

 

Oh, I'd agree with that: the old testament Judeo-Christian God is a bit of a b******, frankly. But all gods are, pretty much. They're humanity's foibles, hopes and fears projected onto a larger canvas, and not unnaturally, the unpleasant aspects are amplified as well.

 

cheers, Mark

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Right' date=' but still, let's get back to fiction.[/quote']

 

Which fiction? It's hard to speculate on "how to write up gods" if you don't know whether we're talking about "The Mighty Thor", "the Gods beyond the Gods" or the humans with ultra-tech from "Lord of Light".

 

In my own game setting, the Dymerians (one of the most powerful empires) don't have any specific gods at all, and openly mock conventionally religious people from other cultures with questions like "How would you tell the difference between a god and a really powerful magic user if one actually turned up?" (In Dymeria, many bars have signs saying "No religious arguments" :D). They generally believe that if there really are transcendentally powerful beings that would qualify as gods, that humans couldn't understand them and such beings are likely as interested in what people think as people are in what ants think.

 

cheers, Mark

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

As a general discussion thread, I like the discussion that has been happening.

 

However, if people want to discuss specific cases - How about cases where gods have some sort of aspect that separates them from mortals - A god isn't just more powerful; there's an actual quality. What is it, where did it come from and is it granted or inborn or both and etc. questions?

 

Naturally, stating up is part of it.

 

Divine Authority: 'Fringe' Benefit: Just Authority, as: 'Federal/National Police Powers, International Police Powers, Local Police Powers, Low Justice, High Justice (As 'License To Kill'), Psionic Police Powers, Temporal Police Powers, Right To Marry', Membership (Divinity: 20 pts), God: 40 pts

 

You'll notice I used a completely different template and assumed an extradimensional location.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

How does one distinguish a God from a palindromedary?

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

People wanted a specific case. I provided one. You did too.

 

Personally, I think people are being waaay to picky and argumentative. But religion seems to get people that way.

 

It is incredibly strange, as religion is naturally the one thing that must be considered with soberness; that is, sound judgement and measured reason.

 

You'll note (He said in an aside, dryly) that I have neither criticised another's religion nor mentioned my own in that statement.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

People wanted a specific case. I provided one. You did too.

 

Personally, I think people are being waaay to picky and argumentative. But religion seems to get people that way.

 

It is incredibly strange, as religion is naturally the one thing that must be considered with soberness; that is, sound judgement and measured reason.

 

You'll note (He said in an aside, dryly) that I have neither criticised another's religion nor mentioned my own in that statement.

 

Whether religion should be considered with soberness, it is for many people a profound part of their personal identity, so any perceptibly-critical position on a religion is often responded to as if it were a personal attack, with most unsober anger. We see that all around us in the world today.

 

Now, no disrespect intended, Narf, but you did title the thread "How would you stat up gods in Hero System?" so you can't really blame those of us looking for something specific to model with game stats. Omnipotence and omniscience are pretty hard to hang Character Points on. ;) So, in that spirit, let's look at your example:

 

However' date=' if people want to discuss specific cases - How about cases where gods have some sort of aspect that separates them from mortals - A god isn't just more powerful; there's an actual quality. What is it, where did it come from and is it granted or inborn or both and etc. questions?[/quote']

 

In other words, a qualitative distinction between a "divine" character and a mortal one. One could approach this from the perspective of designing mortal characters for a campaign that includes interacting with gods. For example, all mortals might have a default Vulnerability to attacks by gods, whether from Powers, Strength, or Presence Attacks.

 

In my supers campaigns I often assign "normal people" a default Physical Limitation I call Mere Mortal. Mere Mortals are essentially normal people in a super world. The HERO rules for heroic-level characters apply to them -- Normal Characteristic Maxima, END use for STR, Pushing restrictions, and any of the optional rules we want to use in the game -- but not to the superhumans. The same sort of distinction could be drawn between mortals and gods.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

A huge END reserve for VPP, EC, or MP (depending on the god´s specific nature and what framework suits that best) linked to the prayers/offerings of believers?

 

Shapeshift. Teleportation. Significantly increased stats, especially STR, PRE, and BODY.

 

Susceptabilities, Vulnerabilities, Rivalries....

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Earlier in the thread mention was made of Aaron Allston's Mythic Greece supplement for the first edition of Fantasy HERO (before the HERO System was unified), which provided full game stats for the classical Greek gods as they were depicted in myth. Aaron later posted a free supplement to that book to the old Red October BBS, updating the material in it to Fourth Edition HERO. While you'd really need the original book to make full use of the updates, the generic god abilities are self-explanatory and pertinent to this discussion; so I'm Attaching Aaron's document to this post. The god-relevant stuff is about two-thirds of the way down the document.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Serpent-Lord Apophis

 

this is a 5th edition avatar of a god,

based on the fourth edition book Mythic Egypt.

 

On of the design angles for him is that he is occasionally

to be fought in hand to hand combat,

that's assumed in the mythology.

 

The book had stats for the "Basic God", a terribly powerful being.

then onto the basics were bolted their portfolio and strengths.

 

for example, Thoth, god of Wisdom was about 30 points smarter than the Average deity.

 

 

This write-up originally appeared in Haymaker

YMMV

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

To further expand on the 'intrinsinc quality' idea, a fringe benefit 'Not subject to mortal law' would also be appropriate. Also, hmm...For some, 'Not subject to normal physical laws'. For a campaign, that would require defining what laws they are subject to.

 

For generic'd example, invulnerability from true death - Healing with Resurection and a +4 'No bypass method' - I imagine that would also need a stop sign on it.

 

Or, possibly a limited bypass method of 'Divine damage'. Which could mean that only gods or demigods could harm gods; or possibly certain (Or all?) priests - Naterually, 'Only while serving the god's purposes'. I don't think even the most just of our theoretical gods would want to casually hand out the power to permanently kill them. Temporarily, specifically and to very, very, very trusted servants, maybe.

 

Hmm, in campaigns were clerics aren't 'other-type spellcasters', that could be a good reason to have a cleric along - You need them to deal with various types of hostile demigods - demon (Or possibly angel, depending on campaign morality type and the Sliding Scale) equivelents.

 

I imagine this would be some sort of Fringe Benefit related to justice (Or injustice, or war), allowing your character to use divine damage.

 

This could make 'Priest' a quality adventurers would want to pick up - And dealing with the oft-heard lament (At least from what I've seen) of 'My PCs completely ignore religiion! My poor setting!' :D

 

After all, if deciding serving whatever divinity/ies exist in the campaign gets your PC the ability to deal with some rather dangerous enemies on an even or even superior level...

 

...I seem to be rambling, but I'm all out of words for now.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

If “Not subject to mortal law” is a fringe benefit, then wouldn't that mean PCs would never have a legitimate reason to oppose them? Also “Not subject to normal physical laws” describes pretty much every power in the book, doesn’t it? (At least without foci involved.) Perhaps you could better explain what these would actually entail?

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

Generally, societies except their deities from their own laws - The diety/ies in question are seen as having authority that supercedes their own laws/being the granter of laws, by virtue of the divinity/ies being seen as the highest authority of the land.

 

Other lands will generally have diffierent views, as may other deities, if the campaign world has more than one.

 

In the case of good/evil alignment worlds, priests could be the only way for mortals to truly successfully oppose the other side - Not counting the 'half-god' section of demigods as mortals.

 

'Not subject to normal physical laws' basically means, as I implied, but did not suffiiently explain, that the diety in question does not need to worry about gravity, or momentum, or time or other 'NPL'. Instead, they are bound by different laws. For example, for good gods, it could be that breaking any promise willingly results in an instant loss of godship. It could mean that they must respect every single word one of their fellow gods speaks (However 'fellow gods' is defined), or have every single word of theirs be null and void in a spiritual sense. It could mean that their own glory is tied to that of their followers directly - Treat Ego, Pre and Com not as fixed statistics, but as variables tied to the conduct of their followers.

Alternately, any action their followers take 'under orders' is supernaturally literally the same as an action they take.

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Re: How would you stat up gods in Hero System?

 

To further expand on the 'intrinsinc quality' idea, a fringe benefit 'Not subject to mortal law' would also be appropriate. Also, hmm...For some, 'Not subject to normal physical laws'. For a campaign, that would require defining what laws they are subject to.

 

For generic'd example, invulnerability from true death - Healing with Resurection and a +4 'No bypass method' - I imagine that would also need a stop sign on it.

 

I ran a game a while back where all of the players were immortals (and in my game world, in many places, the immortals are worshipped as gods). They got their "immortality" via duplication: many multiples of copies with the limitation that only one copy could be active at a time, and all the other bodies were lifeless, waiting to be animated. Kill one body - be it never so thoroughly - and they'll just pop up in another. To really "kill" an immortal, you have to kill all of the bodies, all of them hidden in many different places, guarded by fanatic priesthoods, or in a cave whose entrance is under the sea, in a castle of brass surrounded by a lake of fire and guarded by a dragon - or simply sealed in a caisse below the floor of a peasant's hut.

 

Cost a bit, but gave pretty close to guaranteed immortality.

 

Or' date=' possibly a limited bypass method of 'Divine damage'. Which could mean that only gods or demigods could harm gods; or possibly certain (Or all?) priests - Naterually, 'Only while serving the god's purposes'. I don't think even the most just of our theoretical gods would want to casually hand out the power to permanently kill them. Temporarily, specifically and to very, very, very trusted servants, maybe.[/quote']

 

I didn't bother with "megadamage". In a fantasy world where an experienced guardsman is 25 points and elite soldiery 50 points, the 350 point Avatar of Death could wade through common soldiery like an ordinary man walking through grass. Their opponents weren't ordinary people, but other immortals, ancient dragons and powerful beings from beyond the pale: in other words, the sort of things polytheistic deities generally tackled in the stories.

 

This could make 'Priest' a quality adventurers would want to pick up - And dealing with the oft-heard lament (At least from what I've seen) of 'My PCs completely ignore religiion! My poor setting!' :D

 

This is easy enough to deal with: you just need to make religion relevant. In the current game, religion is a major social factor: so the players spend a good deal of time interacting with priests, cults and temples. In fact, recently, two of them stumped up a fair amount of loot just to be allowed to join a cult. There's no reason of course that this couldn't give you some advantages like access to "divine damage" - in my case, the players did it because belonging to the city cult gives them access to cult secrets (like the city archives) and gives them social status.

 

cheers, Mark

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