matrix3 Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I know it's common for growth bricks to get AoE for their strength, but what about Martial Artists? I want to create a martial artist with a Whirlwind-style attack that takes out all opponents in his hex, would I just use "HA +xD6 (AoE:Own Hex, Selective)"? I seem to remember a write up for a katana-wielding character with an AoE: Line attack, but I can't find it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? It wouldn't help much for AoE: Own Hex to take out surrounding opponents. AoE: 2" Radius +3/4 (5ER p248) is what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? That works, but it would not get the benefit of any martial maneuver, just str + the HA. With the Selective, you would have to roll separately for each target. p.s. I agree with ga's comment re the location covered. Just choose the radius you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? Couple of things to keep in mind about Hand-To-Hand Attack: unlike HKA, HA is not pro-rated for the Strength the character uses. You just add damage from STR to it normally, regardless of how many Advantages you buy for your HA. However, if your STR doesn't have the same Advantages as your HA, you can only do up to double the Base Damage of the HA, no matter how much STR you use. BTW I gave one of my master villains a very large HA with MegaScale Area Of Effect, which he could max out with relatively modest STR, as a city-destroying "doomsday weapon." Very inexpensive in Character Points compared to other ways to write up this effect, but AFAICT it's completely rules-legal. It's far more munchkinny than I would ever allow a PC to have; but for a NPC villain, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? Yeah I'd likely build it as HA+ X D6, AE: 1 Hex, Extra area +1/4, Selective, and put in Disadds as needed (it gets -1/2 for HA...Full Phase sounds like a good one...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? It wouldn't help much for AoE: Own Hex to take out surrounding opponents. AoE: 2" Radius +3/4 (5ER p248) is what you want. Hmm..quite right, there. Thanks! That works, but it would not get the benefit of any martial maneuver, just str + the HA. With the Selective, you would have to roll separately for each target. p.s. I agree with ga's comment re the location covered. Just choose the radius you want. I was thinking this would be its own martial maneuver. I didn't think it would be quite right to combine this with Offensive Strike or Haymaker... And, I don't mind rolling separately for each target, this would still be one attack that targets them all, while avoiding any hostages or friendlies in the affected areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? Couple of things to keep in mind about Hand-To-Hand Attack: unlike HKA, HA is not pro-rated for the Strength the character uses. You just add damage from STR to it normally, regardless of how many Advantages you buy for your HA. However, if your STR doesn't have the same Advantages as your HA, you can only do up to double the Base Damage of the HA, no matter how much STR you use. BTW I gave one of my master villains a very large HA with MegaScale Area Of Effect, which he could max out with relatively modest STR, as a city-destroying "doomsday weapon." Very inexpensive in Character Points compared to other ways to write up this effect, but AFAICT it's completely rules-legal. It's far more munchkinny than I would ever allow a PC to have; but for a NPC villain, why not? So, I should by the HA to equal the char's base STR damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? That works, but it would not get the benefit of any martial maneuver, just str + the HA. ... Do you have a specific rules forum or FAQ reference on this? To my knowledge, Steve L. has never gave a firm answer on this. Instead he has opted to make it a GM call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? Have you had a look at Penalty Skill Levels vs Sweep? This may need a rule clarification, but as I understand it PSLs can be purchased for one maneuver (Sweep). Sweep in turn can be combined with any other maneuver, with the rules giving the examples Sweep Martial Throw and Sweep Disarm. The downside is that your character is at 1/2 DCV, which may be a deal-breaker for you, but if you buy them to offset the OCV penalty for only Sweep, you can cancel the minuses for up to six targets for 18 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? Do you have a specific rules forum or FAQ reference on this? To my knowledge, Steve L. has never gave a firm answer on this. Instead he has opted to make it a GM call. Take a look at the FAQ for 5E and the UMA (I don't have it with me so I have to take the FAQ at its word). If a character has bought an Advantage for his STR (say, Armor Piercing), and he then uses a Martial Maneuver or Haymaker, how does the Advantage apply — to all the dice, to just the STR dice, to none of the dice? It applies to none of the dice (see 5E 272, second paragraph in the right-hand column). For example, a character with 20 STR, Armor Piercing, who uses an Offensive Strike (+4d6) does 8d6 Normal Damage, with no AP effect. If a character wants to make an Advantages Martial Arts attack, he should buy Advantages for specific Martial Maneuvers, as described in the optional rules on page 104 of The Ultimate Martial Artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? I know it's common for growth bricks to get AoE for their strength' date=' but what about Martial Artists? I want to create a martial artist with a Whirlwind-style attack that takes out all opponents in his hex, would I just use "HA +xD6 (AoE:Own Hex, Selective)"? I seem to remember a write up for a katana-wielding character with an AoE: Line attack, but I can't find it now.[/quote']Sure. In the 4th edition Watchers of the Dragon, both Copper Spear and Golden Axe had weapon HKAs with Nonselective Area Effects, and Nightwind had a "Sublime Whirlwind of Cheng-Hwan" HA with AE: 1 Hex and Personal Immunity. Go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? So' date=' I should by the HA to equal the char's base STR damage?[/quote'] Insofar as the HA has Advantages that the character's STR does not, there'd be no damage benefit to having more Active Points in STR than you have in the HA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? Insofar as the HA has Advantages that the character's STR does not' date=' there'd be no damage benefit to having more Active Points in STR than you have in the HA.[/quote'] Most of the examples of this power, the HA + Str is slightly below the normal martial strike DCs. As such, in the normal MA character context, I would got with at least as many DCs of HA as you have in Str, with potentially more if you want. As LL notes above, you are leaving added str on the table unused if the HA is less than Str. However, at the end of the day, you might be faced with some damage caps, etc. BTW, if you want to see some examples of this power (and other advantaged HA), there are a couple examples of characters on the board that have them. My memory is that ZLF (Tredbuchet's speedster / MA) has some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? Take a look at the FAQ for 5E and the UMA (I don't have it with me so I have to take the FAQ at its word). I have found nothing in the FAQ or Rules Forum that changes the following section that deals directly wit the situation of adding Martial Arts Damage to an attack that already has Advantages: from 5er page 407: Adding Damage To Attacks With Advantages Adding damage becomes a little more complicated if the attack has Advantages. COMBAT SKILL LEVELS, HAYMAKERS, AND MARTIAL MANEUVERS Damage bonuses from Haymakers, Martial Maneuvers, and Combat Skill Levels are not affected by Advantages. They add to an attack that has Advantages at the same rate, and by the same rules, as they do to an attack with no Advantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? I have found nothing in the FAQ or Rules Forum that changes the following section that deals directly wit the situation of adding Martial Arts Damage to an attack that already has Advantages: from 5er page 407: Yeah, thats my take on it...basicly it's a GM call based on ballence issues.... My example/explaination...HA is cake, STR is cake as well, so you stack'em up in layers...MA's is Frosting, it goes on top....If you put raisons in the cake (advantages) then the other cake has to be the same size..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? I have found nothing in the FAQ or Rules Forum that changes the following section that deals directly wit the situation of adding Martial Arts Damage to an attack that already has Advantages: from 5er page 407: Interesting. I don't actually have 5ER so I never saw that. Ive been using 5E. Thanks for the correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? Yeah, thats my take on it...basicly it's a GM call based on ballence issues.... My example/explaination...HA is cake, STR is cake as well, so you stack'em up in layers...MA's is Frosting, it goes on top....If you put raisons in the cake (advantages) then the other cake has to be the same size..... I love that Advantages are raisins. GM: What raisins are you using? Player: Area Of Effect and Affects Desolid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted May 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? I love that Advantages are raisins. GM: What raisins are you using? Player: Area Of Effect and Affects Desolid.... GM: And are your cakes the same size? Player: Nah, I'm just...wait, now I'm hungry...what were we talking about again? GM: ...Eh, it doesn't matter, let's all go to Baker's Square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? (Takes a look at a Mechanon mini) Opps, this is a layer cake game, and I got a cupcake.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? It wouldn't help much for AoE: Own Hex to take out surrounding opponents. AoE: 2" Radius +3/4 (5ER p248) is what you want. Keep in mind the need for personal immunity or Selective (or get used to hearing "stop hitting yourself"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted June 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Re: Area of Effect for Hand to Hand attacks? Keep in mind the need for personal immunity or Selective (or get used to hearing "stop hitting yourself"). Yeah, I planned on "Selective" so that I could use it without hitting hostages or my own team mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.