Generic SF Universe Project

[shadowcat1313]

was doing some thinking, and with some talk on a couple of other boards, about a generic SF Universe project, thinking about using the Wiki system like whats being used for the really cool Generica Fantasy Universe project that Killer Shrike is heading up.

 

first thought being using Heaven and Earth or Galactic 2.4 to generate a Traveller Sector to start with, we could drop the hex map etc, but it would give us a starting point to work from.

 

Heaven and Earth and Galactic can both be found here

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/infocenter/swlist/index.html

 

Generica Fantasy Project:

http://www.killershrike.info/MainPage.ashx

 

just bringing this idea up to see what if any interest there might be

 

This would also have nothing to do with the Fantasy project beyond where the idea came from, although anybody would be welcome to contribute

[Sundog]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

Count me interested. I want to run a Space Hero game sometime, and a setting like this could be useful to have. What do you need?

[Peregrine]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

First question: space opera or hard sci-fi?

[shadowcat1313]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

thinking mostly space opera, but could be either

or possibly bits of both

[Peregrine]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

Explain "bits of both". I'm not sure if that's really possible...

[shadowcat1313]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

we could have seperate areas for both

[Curufea]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

Feel free to create a space on my wiki for it

[azato]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

Count me in although I don't know how much time I can put into this.

 

What I would LOVE to develop would be a recreation of the European empires during the age of exploration to the mid 1800's. Wherin each "nation" would be a separate race or faction. They would be a handful of small empires but powerful empires who have a long series of complicated relationships and varying and swinging alliances.

 

Vast new areas of relatively unexplored regions (like America and Africa). develping trade with empires with which the "Europeans" are on shaky ground (china). Also the "european" empires would be vying for control over some "virgin" rich, unexplored and undeveloped areas (think africa, india, Pakistan and america).

[Nyrath]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

What I would LOVE to develop would be a recreation of the European empires during the age of exploration to the mid 1800's. Wherin each "nation" would be a separate race or faction. They would be a handful of small empires but powerful empires who have a long series of complicated relationships and varying and swinging alliances.

 

Vast new areas of relatively unexplored regions (like America and Africa). develping trade with empires with which the "Europeans" are on shaky ground (china). Also the "european" empires would be vying for control over some "virgin" rich, unexplored and undeveloped areas (think africa, india, Pakistan and america).

 

For the old RPG Traveller 2300, the developers made a simple geopolitical game and used it to generate the future history underpinning the RPG.

http://stalexone.tripod.com/gg2/2300game.htm

http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/2300_AD

[azato]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

Yeah, I have the game but there are some aspects that I don't care for, at least as far as the maps go. I think they are way too confusing, too many planets and, while more realistic, i think the 3 dimensional cordinates is just not easily grasped when written on a 2d surface.

 

What I am thinking is something more star opera ish. I am not actually looking to put earth's nations into space, but to create the dynamics that was in Europe and the rest of the world during this time.

 

Take America (north and south) for example. We have the British, the French, the Spanish, the Portugese all vying for a space occupied by the native population. The events in europe led to the colonies seeking and gaining independence.

 

Take the continent you have the various powers pushing and pulling with GB taking sides just to keep the continent unbalanced.

 

Plug in some various races and the history books will write the adventures.

 

 

 

For the old RPG Traveller 2300, the developers made a simple geopolitical game and used it to generate the future history underpinning the RPG.

http://stalexone.tripod.com/gg2/2300game.htm

http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/2300_AD

[CptPatriot]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

I think one of the first things you need to decide about Earth, assuming you even want to keep Earth in it, is whether Earth is unified or separate nations. That will impact how they expand into the galaxy.

[Clonus]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

I'm kind of fond of the idea of humanity being the first modern species in space, (with a bunch of Precursors who all died out a few million years ago. We spread out, discover less advanced species. They learn from us. Our interstellar civilisation collapses creating a Long Night, and the aliens who have learned from us become our rivals as we try to climb back up again.

[CptPatriot]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

I'm kind of fond of the idea of humanity being the first modern species in space' date=' (with a bunch of Precursors who all died out a few million years ago. We spread out, discover less advanced species. They learn from us. Our interstellar civilization collapses creating a Long Night, and the aliens who have learned from us become our rivals as we try to climb back up again.[/quote']

 

So, we ended up trading and stuff with these more primitive races then as we expand, but because we expanded too quickly, we end up fighting among ourselves, then these other races, because we treated them like dirt because of humanity's haughty nature, they give humans a hard time.

[Curufea]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

If it helps, I've already written an FTL paradigm. Mostly because I couldn't decide which method of FTL to use for my Newton's First Law campaign, so I included all of them.

[CptPatriot]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

If it helps' date=' I've already written an FTL paradigm. Mostly because I couldn't decide which method of FTL to use for my Newton's First Law campaign, so I included all of them.

 

It looks like all the principles of FTL travel you have essentially work by tunneling; piercing the dimensional boundaries between Normal Space and the different layers of Hyperspace.

 

This is what I'm proposing:

In the beginning, Low Energy Hyperspace(LEHS) was used to travel to the various systems out there and was the only way to get to different systems until engineering principles allow the creation a huge hyperspace engines that enabled High Energy Hyperspace(HEHS) to be used, though expensive to make.

 

These hyperjump gates, or just jump gates for short, facilitated trade between different systems but also made the companies that created these gates a lot of money. The fee collected for using the jump gates are split between the owners of both endpoints of the gate. Jump Gates also act as beacons to by which the other jump gates in the network can lock onto to make the quantum tunnel between them. Ships in the quantum tunnel can use the hyperspace beacons to determine time to destination. The jump gates also act as communication links between different systems in the network though because of the expense of maintaining the jump gates, FTL communication, while extremely fast, is also expensive.

 

Ships using LEHS and HEHS cannot change their courses in midflight unless they pay a similar expenditure of energy used to get into hyperspace to pop out of hyperspace. While LEHS craft can do that, ships in HEHS cannot do that unless they have the large engines to make that trip in the first place.

 

Now, as hyperspace engines got more advanced, they found they could instead of piercing the hyperspace boundary, they could bend or warp space to enter into that same quantum energy state. This gave the benefit of being able to exit that quantum energy state at any time. It also allows the ability to change direction. FTL maneuvering now becomes an option.

 

As Warp Drive technology becomes more advanced, the principles of warping space combined with quantum tunneling. In other words, wormholes.

 

Wormhole technology uses principles of gravitation to pinch the space between two points closer so a quantum tunnel can be made to pierce both points in space simultaneously, but this can only happen between locations where space is weakest or, for faster travel, around areas of heavy gravitational forces, such as supergiants or singularities. For the absolutely fastest travel being between two singularities and the most dangerous.

[Nyrath]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

Just keep in mind the primary rule of the Hero system: focus on effects, not causes.

 

In other words, try writing up each of the FTL propulsion systems in the Hero system, in order to get a firm grasp on their differences. The real differences, not just the bafflegab explanations of how they work.

[Curufea]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

It looks like all the principles of FTL travel you have essentially work by tunneling; piercing the dimensional boundaries between Normal Space and the different layers of Hyperspace.

 

Kinda - LE Hyperspace was for the Star Trek ships - that create a warp bubble around themselves (it's the purpose of the nacelles) but still maintain a relationship with the normal universe (ie they can still fly into planets).

[CptPatriot]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

Just keep in mind the primary rule of the Hero system: focus on effects' date=' not [b']causes[/b].

 

In other words, try writing up each of the FTL propulsion systems in the Hero system, in order to get a firm grasp on their differences. The real differences, not just the bafflegab explanations of how they work.

 

But by understanding the way the universe works, we can bring the world to life. In the end, how you build it isn't as important as being able immerse yourself in the game environment.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

True, though I like to gloss over the really technical in favor of practical explanations.

 

I might help out on this, but I fear my ideas may clash with others.

 

The concept I am trying to espouse in the campaign setting I have a small amount of work done on is kind of based on the Miles series by Lois McMaster Bujold - more of a space-age spy thriller than a war story or space opera or whatever. Lots of options for the party dynamic of RPG's - more small unit action, espionage, anti-piracy, search and rescue... exploration, first contacts, alien artifacts and such.

 

Ideally, a generic setting should have enough "stuff" for any number of different campaign concepts.

 

My input on a few things:

 

1. Aliens should be alien, not actors with a prosthetic forehead.

 

2. There should be aliens - hostile, friendly, known, unknownd... but there should be aliens.

 

3. FTL - yes, but should be limited in some fashion. Chase seens where you simply teleport to your target might be less interesting than telling Scotty you need to hit warp 9.9 and you need to do it 5 minutes ago. Similarly, having the invading fleet pop into space around your planet and open fire before you can say "Phase 12" might be anticlimactic. Either stationary worm holes of jump gates, or "spinning up the drives", or you have to be far from major gravity wells so you need traditional drives as well (my campaign solution)... something.

 

4. Utopian Terran Federation? Evil Corporate Empire? Earth politics in space? I'd imagine something like the UN administering space travel and claims, with extra-solar colonies having either autonomy or being established by different nations - first to Alpha Centauri plants their flag. That UN could be only over Earth's nations, or it could be an alliance - loose or otherwise - of various aliens. My imagining is you have a few Earth governments who have survived, each making their own claims in the solar system and beyond. Then a UN-like council or some such where the nations negotiate their rights and conflicts in space.

 

5. On Aliens, I think there should be some older than us, some not.

 

More later.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

Another thought...

 

Handwavium or no, FTL should not automatically mean Time Travel. Little chat we are having as I type this is discussing using gravity manipulation - gravity bends space and time, so you create your own bend somehow that gets you to WHERE and WHEN you are trying to get. I'd say Time Travel is impossible for my campaign but obviously should be an option to others if they want it.

[CptPatriot]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

So, have we come to any consensus on FTL travel?

[azato]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

To me, the exact science is not as important as some other factors such as:

 

1. How far can a ship travel

2 How long does it take

3. How does it refuel

 

These three options will dramatically influence how the characters interact with the universe and will also greatly affect trade routes and the vulnerability of planets and empires. For example do all ships coming into their portion of the sector have to come by way of a couple of systems or can they pop in just anywhere? That may make some back-water systems very important for defense and for refueling. Or it may make those same back-water systems virtually ignored because of the their lack of importance.

 

 

So' date=' have we come to any consensus on FTL travel?[/quote']

[BlackSword]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

So' date=' have we come to any consensus on FTL travel?[/quote']

Since the goal is to build a generic SF universe, I would tend to lean towards the more popular settings, Star Wars and Star Trek. Star Wars uses 'hyperspace' a ship in hyperspace interacts with the normal world (flying through a star ends your trip real quick); ST ships in warp can run into stars. So they may be the same 'science' behind each, the difference is how it is achieved and controlled. In SW a navicomputer preprograms the route, and seems to be a constant speed, while in ST the travel can be controlled in flight, and speed can be varied. It may be as easy different tech levels for each system. As for speed, both canon FTL travels seem to be at the speed of plot, though I believe there are some non-canon sources for Warp Factor speeds.

[Nyrath]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

But by understanding the way the universe works' date=' we can bring the world to life. In the end, how you build it isn't as important as being able immerse yourself in the game environment.[/quote']

Maybe for you, but your stable of players are going to be much more interested in the practical details: how much fuel does each use, what are the limitations, etc.

 

You can only immerse your players in the awe and wonder of the game environment a limited amount of time before their eyes glaze over.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Generic SF Universe Project

 

FTL is a two part question:

 

FTL Drives? I say yes. Thoughts to consider: Speed and - more importantly - cost of travel affects a lot of things. If FTL travel is expensive, there won't be a lot of interstellar trade for common commodities, only really expensive stuff or really critical supplies.

 

Part two - FTL Communications. With FTL drives you'll have FTL Communications - but let me expound. Let's say you have FTL drives but no "Ansible" or "Subspace Relays" or anything... IE no phone calls from Andromeda back home to Earth. Now, if your FTL ship takes mere hours to travel from galaxy to galaxy, then you have not-quite instant FTL comms but it is the difference between a phone call and a hand delivered note - hours waiting for answers. If your FTL ship takes weeks to get to the next star system, communications are slowed that much more.

 

Without instant or near-instant FTL communications, galaxy-spanning empires would be unlikely, and if they existed they would be slow to change or react, and there would be a lot of autonomy with the "system governors" or what have you. While having a FTL Video Phone would allow for massive empires and rapid politics. Also, rapid orders from HQ for military ops.

 

My "votes" or at least what I'm currently planning for my campaign:

 

FTL: The FTL System I plan to use is that there is a drive system that uses massive amounts of energy to create a tunnel in space-time that is shorter than the natural topography. I don't want to use hyperspace or subspace or anything extra-dimensional. I want ships in FTL transit to be in "real space" with all the disadvantages that implies - you can be seen and detected, intercepted (with some reeaaa-he-heeaally complex math), shot at, etc.

 

I also want FTL to be somewhat slow. Days to Weeks to travel to another star system. The "Tunnel Drive" lets you create short tunnels, about 1 LY max for a top-of-the-line ship, and you just create a series of tunnels for long trips. In the tunnel, you still are only moving at normal speeds (standard 1G burns, no inertial dampeners), but the tunnel is shorter. In my setting, a ship going to Alpha Centauri would take about 2 days minimum. One going 40 LY or so (the extent of human exploration thus far) would take several weeks.

 

Now, on top of this, as you are using direct manipulation of gravity, you have to be on the far outskirts of a system to use FTL - any significant gravitational influence will affect the creation of the tunnel - I'm thinking, in HERO terms, that it will make the Navigation roll harder, and that if you fail by X amount you end up strewn along spacetime as your tunnel collapses after you enter it. On the other hand, the deeper you are in space, the easier it is to create the tunnel and the longer your tunnel can be (hence why the difference between 1 LY and 40 LY trips don't add up.)

 

I would also support multiple FTL techs - again, my campaign Humans started with a naturally discovered wormhole, then figured out how to build Jump Gates around unsafe or unstable wormholes, but wormholes are limited by the fact they only go to a set destination. Then later they figured out how to basically generate their own short-lived wormholes - the Tunnel Drive.

 

FTL Comms: I vote no. This sets up a scenario where Earth and other extrasolar human colonies have limited contact, and lots of autonomy and cultural differences. Communications are still possible by sending FTL couriers, but you don't have the President of Beta Aquilae on speed dial.