Lord Liaden Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information The second post in this thread is quite clear on what books to buy. Coincidentally, I bought all three. Um, the second post in this thread (from Steve Long) mentions five books: Champions Universe; Champions Universe: News Of The World; Conquerors, Killers, And Crooks; Millennium City; and the Champions genre book; with some details about what each one contains. You appear to be saying you bought the first three books on the list above -- is that correct? If you're interested in the general Champions Universe, the book by that name is definitely not useless if you also own News Of The World. The latter updates the former, but doesn't remotely provide the same background information -- NOTW only talks about what's happened since 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information Fair enough, it does mention Millenium City, which I did not buy. And very briefly, in a manner which might be construed as an abbreviation, it does mention a book with the simple name Champions, which contrasts, I guess, with the name Champions Universe. My point is that I was as careful as I thought I needed to be and I was still bitten badly. As I said, my mistake was ever branching out. Thanks for the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information If you have some time, and want a more comprehensive look at what each book is and contains - there are a series of reviews in the Hero Games Product Line forum. Each book has it's own thread as well. http://www.herogames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information have you contacted frp about returning the unusaable book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information have you contacted frp about returning the unusaable book No, and I don't intend to. The mistake wasn't their's and shipping it back would eat into any savings I would realize based on the return anyway. I'll simply deal with it. FRP isn't the focus of my ire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information i'm sorry if i misinformed you that was not my intention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information As I said' date=' my mistake was ever branching out.[/quote'] I'd be sad if this one unfortunate misunderstanding prevented you from sampling more of the richness and diversity of the Champions Universe. There really are many interesting elements to the setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information the Champions Genre book is a really well done genre book and has some really nice stuff in it It also includes their base, and it's AI Socrates, and their V-Jet. BTW some of the classic Champions Villains are also in the Champions Genre Book. ie Pulsar, Mechanon, Icicle, Green Dragon, and Talisman (Witchcraft's evil sister) So it's a good book to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information the Champions Genre book is a really well done genre book and has some really nice stuff in it It also includes their base, and it's AI Socrates, and their V-Jet. BTW some of the classic Champions Villains are also in the Champions Genre Book. ie Pulsar, Mechanon, Icicle, Green Dragon, and Talisman (Witchcraft's evil sister) So it's a good book to have. Yes, it sounds very much like the book I wanted. Unfortunately, I don't have it. I have something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memnon Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information Which book is the 2002 Champions? This one? https://www.herogames.com/viewItem.htm?itemID=195688 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information The book I have is called Champions Universe, it is the one listed at the top of Steve Long's first post in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information The book I have is called Champions Universe' date=' it is the one listed at the top of Steve Long's first post in this thread.[/quote'] There's always ebay... Champions Sourcebook on Ebay a Search of Champions stuff on Ebay News of the World is relevant since it brings the timeline closer to the current day. So it's isn't that bad of a purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information There's always ebay... Champions Sourcebook on Ebay a Search of Champions stuff on Ebay News of the World is relevant since it brings the timeline closer to the current day. So it's isn't that bad of a purchase. It's not going to be read in the near future. I'm also not going to put more money into Champions PnP in the near future. There's an old saying about fool me once . . . My interest was in a group of characters and certain villains. I didn't get any of them in the Universe book. I'm still trying to understand how I could have phrased my initial post more clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yansuf Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information Sorry for the misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information I am currently playing the Champions MMO and I find myself very curious about the background of the universe that it is set in. The game offers very little incentive to pick up on this information, but I can see that the villains and the world are very fleshed out. What book would be the best to get a primer on the superheroes and villains of the Champions universe? I'm particularly interested in the main Champions like Witchcraft, Sapphire, and Defender, as well as a few of the villains. I'm not really interested in the rules, because in terms of PnP I use Mutants and Masterminds. But I am interested in a book like M&M's Freedom City supplement that has that same kind of background on the Champions Universe. Thanks all. You said you were interested in the background of the universe CO is set in. That is what is in Champions Universe. If that is useless it isn't because we mis-communicated, it's exactly what you asked for. You also said you were particularly interested in the Champions themselves, all of which are in CU: News of the World. I'm sorry you are not satisfied, but rather resent the implication that we “fooled you”. You were given exactly what you asked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information Re: the Champions themselves (like Defender, Sapphire, and Witchcraft), they're all described in basic in the Champions genre book. They got a story update, and an upgrade to 500 Character Points, in Champions Universe: News Of The World. I wasn't going to say this, in fact I edited a post earler containing this quote. From Steve's original post. He did point out that the Champions were detailed in the Champions Genre Book. I am sorry that you missed that paragraph and that you are upset that you purchased everything but what you wanted. Now all of these books contain the Lore of the Champions Universe from BEFORE Cryptic bought the IP. There are changes that will be detailed in the 6e version of Champions Universe which is coming in the next few months. (ie there is no write up for Doc Silverback in the original CU). Tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information That's because Doc Silverback (and the first version of Kinetic) are both in the Millennium City book. Kinetic does get an update in News of the World though. Also, can someone correct me if I’m remembering wrong? All of the Champions are in CU: News of the World, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information That's because Doc Silverback (and the first version of Kinetic) are both in the Millennium City book. Kinetic does get an update in News of the World though. Also, can someone correct me if I’m remembering wrong? All of the Champions are in CU: News of the World, right? All of the Champions that were in the Genre Book get an upgrade in News of the World. Though Dr Silverback doesn't get an upgrade nor does he appear in NotW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information It's not going to be read in the near future. I'm also not going to put more money into Champions PnP in the near future. There's an old saying about fool me once . . . My interest was in a group of characters and certain villains. I didn't get any of them in the Universe book. I'm still trying to understand how I could have phrased my initial post more clearly. I'm to apologize in advance for this post, because it's probably going to come off snarky. The very second post answers your questions and tells you what book the characters you were looking for are in. Champions I'm sorry if you can't do just enough research to figure out that Champions and Champions Universe are two different books. But DO NOT blame us for this. Steve was clear and explicit as to what was where. We didn't fool you, you failed comprehension. I'm sorry this hasn't been the exact experience you were looking for, and I really do hope you decide to look further into the Champions Universe Setting as it is a rich and open world to explore. But we didn't fool you and I don't think it kind or polite to accuse other members of the boards who were genuinely trying to help you of doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information We didn't fool you, you failed comprehension. Clearly this setting must be over my head. My inability to comprehend makes the material too opaque for me to understand. I regret I lack the intelligence to fully appreciate the full depth of the Champions universe. But, for the sake of argument, if someone comes on and posts and says "I would like to learn something about the Champions setting, particularly the history of the Champions supergroup, including three specific characters and certain villains", why on Earth would you list the book that covers all of those in things in detail FOURTH in a recomended list? Furthermore, why would you mention that book almost in an offhand way saying something to the effect of "if you want the Champions, of course you'll need the Champions genre book", with only Champions indicated as part of the title when the FIRST book you recomended also had Champions in the title. And, also for the sake of argument, why would no other posters mention that the Champions are ONLY detailed in a book the original response only briefly mentioned. I'm not going to single anyone out, but there is one post in particular that goes on and on about how the Champions Universe contains all of the information I was requesting. In fact, the book contains NONE of the information I wanted. Not one single piece of it. The true blame for all of this lies with me, of course. I'm just flabbergasted I would have done better not coming to the forums at all and randomly ordering books and hoping for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information I'm not inclined to blame anyone in particular. Everything you asked for was provided. Was it presented in bullet point clarity? perhaps not exactly, but what you asked for was there. No one fooled you. All of the Setting Information is in fact in Champions Universe. The champions characters are in the Champions Genre Book. It can't get much clearer than that. Could we have been more clear? Sure, I bet we could have. But we didn't fool you. If you had asked "I want the write-ups for the champions superhero group" instead of "I want information on the Champions Universe Setting" you would have gotten a different answer I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information The Champions Universe book was the book most cited and it has none of the information that my actual request, rather than the intro to my curiosity, asked for. I edited this post to avoid prolonging this argument. At the moment I almost want to burn the books, so I need to step back. This has been an incredibly poor experience, something I haven't had in a PnP-related matter in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information The Champions Universe book was the book most cited and it has none of the information that my actual request' date=' rather than the intro to my curiosity, asked for.[/quote'] I'm sorry, but this statement is blatantly false. You said, (as I quoted in my last post), that you were interested in the “background of the universe that it (CO) is set in”. That is what Champions Universe is; the background of the universe that Champions Online is based on. Your continued insistence that it has nothing you asked for is false and the snarky/sarcastic remarks about apparently not being smart enough to understand the Champions material is just plain rude. You keep mentioning that the Champions themselves are actually in the fourth paragraph by Steve, but you in fact didn’t ask for them until your second paragraph. You were obviously interested in the characters (which are also in CU: News of the World) but your primary request was for background information. None of the books have more background information for the setting than Champions Universe. You also specifically said you wanted to avoid the rules. The Champions book is mostly rules/GM advice, with a few characters. Those characters happen to be the ones you were looking for, but you were fairly adamant about not getting into the rules and the same characters are in one of the books you did buy. If your OP had not started with a request for “background information about the universe” and instead implicitly stated that you were interested in nothing but characters, this would not have happened. Also, unlike your edit to the OP says, the statement that, “most of the more common villains are also only in the Champions Genre book” is false. There are a very few villains in that book, where as the second book Steve suggested (CCK) has a plethora of villains, many of which I’ve already run into in Champions Online. I’m sorry we took you desire to avoid the rules and your request for background information of the setting literally and that we didn’t emphasize the specific characters you wanted enough. I’m still not sure that that is our fault. It certainly wasn’t an attempt to “trick you”. I’m sorry you feel you’ve had a “poor experience” but when the writer of the game answers everything you asked for I really don’t see how you can blame us, or the material, for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information It's very human to try to place blame when something goes wrong, but continuing to do so in this fashion will accomplish nothing but raising more bad feelings. We all made mistakes, and if there's any blame to be had we all share it. PamelaIsely could have phrased her question more clearly. All of us could have answered more clearly. Neither was a gross failure, but together they resulted in a breakdown of communication. It's as simple and understandable as that. The bottom line is, a fan of Champions Online came to us politely requesting information about the Champions world. Our community has a reputation for treating such requests with respect and helpfulness. At the moment we're not living up to that reputation. Pamela, I'm truly sorry if my answer contributed to your failure to get the books you wanted. If I'd realized the focus of your interest I would have answered differently, and if I could do it over again I would. I ask you not to take this incident as typical either of the PnP game, or of the people who play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Re: Champions Background Information What's done is done. I can parse the language again and rebut the post two up, but I was doing that before and deleted the post (as I mentioned in my last message). There's no point debating it. I will clarify that I don't think anyone deliberately tricked me. I feel like I was fooled, but I don't think it was by Steve Long or anyone on here (what would the motive be to steer me towards one book rather than another?). That being said, my foray into these books has not gone well. The book I want is clearly not one that I have. I'll probably never have that book at this point. Thank you to everyone who posted information. Good luck with Champions and the 6th edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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