DusterBoy Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice The pic I'm thinking of is the one on pp263 in 5e Dark Champions where Harby seems to be flying through the air and is wielding an FN P90 in one hand and one of his tricked out semi-autos in the other. Those pistols aren't Desert Eagles and I suspect they don't actually exist outside of the imagination of Storn Cook. (I don't have any 4e books except for the 4e Champs rulebook.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice Why is the Max STUN with the Forcewall higher than the Max STUN without? Per Force Wall you subtract the Body and then apply Hit Location (or StunX) Multiples to the remaining Body that makes it through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice Once Dr D is down could not HoJ do a coup de gras and end it all for the Dr? And while most heroes would not do such a cowardly act, well I can definatly see HoJ do it I'm going on the premise that Harby has to catch him by surprise out of Combat - the only way he can act first. And given Dr. Destroyers intense number of 360 Degree Sensory systems he has on his helmet, it's at range too. There's all kinds of luck factors involved for the Harbinger to even get the guy down that I'm just going to say that Harbinger cannot, in fact, take out Dr. Destroyer as written in CKC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makiaveli Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice Couple things I am wondering about... 1. Doesn't HoJ have some kind of autofire trick that he can use? 2. Does Dr. D have any Accessible defensive foci that could be removed once he was stunned making the followup shots more powerful? Not arguing here, just curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice Accessable? no - none. Harbinger's autofire attacks can't muster the damage his single shot attacks can. I haven't done the math specifically, but they're significantly smaller, probably wouldn't even get Stun past even with a head shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice And of course, all of this is assuming head shots are even possible. Since Dr. Destroyer presumably wouldn't be in any campaign that wasn't Superheroic, that's certainly not a given. And if Harby can't use the Hit Location rules, it gets way, way more unlikely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice The pic I'm thinking of is the one on pp263 in 5e Dark Champions where Harby seems to be flying through the air and is wielding an FN P90 in one hand and one of his tricked out semi-autos in the other. Those pistols aren't Desert Eagles and I suspect they don't actually exist outside of the imagination of Storn Cook. (I don't have any 4e books except for the 4e Champs rulebook.) Are you sure? Because this picture is different than the one you initially described. GA- I'm still confused. I haven't looked at Dr. D's writeup, and I've never had cause to use Forcewall... does the damage that gets through the Forcewall get multiplied and THEN go against Dr. D's armor/other defenses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice No, Force Wall specifies that if it does not stop the Body of the Attack completely you subtract the FWs Defense from the Body and then apply all appropriate multipliers. Order of Damage using Force Wall. Subtract Force Wall Defense from Body Damage. Multiple remaining Body Damage by appropriate modifiers (Hit Locations or StunX for the Stun) and then apply the rest of the targets defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice Once Dr D is down could not HoJ do a coup de gras and end it all for the Dr? And while most heroes would not do such a cowardly act, well I can definatly see HoJ do it There are a few opponents a Coup De Gras should never work on...he is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice And of course' date=' all of this is assuming head shots are even possible. Since Dr. Destroyer presumably wouldn't be in any campaign that wasn't Superheroic, that's certainly not a given. And if Harby can't use the Hit Location rules, it gets way, way more unlikely...[/quote'] not sure if that's a fair, because it'd remove 8 levels Harby paid for, which is hardly right, but if HoJ isn't targeting he can use his naked AF Super Skill with Two Weapon Fighting, Rapid Autofire, Rapid attack, and whatever else I'm missing to throw around an impressive number of those 6d6+3 Penetrating RKA's, which have a +2 Stun Mod. And I'm not sure what'd be the best way to allocate his SuperSkills VPP (Lightning Reflexes to make sure he goes first?), but that does throw a wrench into any straight comparison. I tend to agree Doc D is the likely victor, but I'd still say there's an element of doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice As long as we get to configure VPPs... Doc D has a bigger one, that he can put more defenses into. and what happens when Dr. Destroyer returns fire? 30D6 EB? that's his normal attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice As long as we get to configure VPPs... Doc D has a bigger one, that he can put more defenses into. and what happens when Dr. Destroyer returns fire? 30D6 EB? that's his normal attack. Like you mentioned earlier, I'm assuming an ambush by HoJ as being the only likely situation where he might take Dr. D. A nasty super skill option that occurred to me was to use Resistant Piercing on a skill roll as a sort of instant Find Weakness/Superior Targeting ability. I'd have said AP, but with only 40 active to play with it's nae enough. I still agree that for the most part Dr. D wipes the map with him, but I think HoJ could pull a surprise win, although I wouldn't bet those odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolgroth Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice You just wait til Harbinger gets enough XP to add on that 20mm assault cannon with depleted Uranium rounds. That'll make Dr. Destroyer cry for his mommy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice As long as we get to configure VPPs... Doc D has a bigger one' date=' that he can put more defenses into.[/quote'] Like you mentioned earlier' date=' I'm assuming an ambush by HoJ as being the only likely situation where he might take Dr. D.[/quote']Of course, this presumes that Dr. D. wouldn't keep his VPP allocated to massive defenses whenever he wasn't using it for something else. Reminds me of an old Legion of Superheroes comic where some aliens bomb Ultra Boy's house by surprise, then are themselves surprised when he crawls out of the wreckage. "That's why they call it invulnerability, pal... I don't drop it needlessly." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice As long as we get to configure VPPs... Doc D has a bigger one, that he can put more defenses into. and what happens when Dr. Destroyer returns fire? 30D6 EB? that's his normal attack. Ah, Takofanes could totally take both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice Takofanes could take the Harbinger for sure. But against Dr D he might have a tougher time. 5e Dr D is built on an insane amount of points, but Takofanes has a lot of black magic and Dr D has never been too good at dealing with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice Sounds like a job for Shadow Destroyer..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice Smells like War of the Munchkin NPCs is brewing... And what have I told you guys about mentioning Tak and DD in the same thread? Bring not that madness down upon our heads again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorDRod Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice I suddenly had this weird mental image of Foxbat instigating a fight between the two by sending Dr. D flame-mail pretending to be Takky. Be the kind of thing he'd do, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makiaveli Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Re: Harbinger of Justice Accessable? no - none. Harbinger's autofire attacks can't muster the damage his single shot attacks can. I haven't done the math specifically, but they're significantly smaller, probably wouldn't even get Stun past even with a head shot. Ahh ok. Way rusty on the rules and details after all these years in exile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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