dmjalund Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? I came up with a character called Paradox who did things like deflecting missiles by making them move around him in a straight line' date=' slowly walking at a hundred miles an hour, and freezing people with the heat from sunlight. He was, to put it mildly, challenging to run.[/quote'] Did he have a Susceptibility to things that won't harm him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? Did he have a Susceptibility to things that won't harm him? He was Susceptible to being defeated in contests of mathematics skill. Bit of an odd character, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? yes, but my Idea WAS Paradoxical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? The only way to truly represent a Time Elemental is to spend all of their points on a Cosmic VPP. No pun intended. Go back far enough and they could *Alter the entire universe!* So, you'd have to use a Limited Time elemental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? I don't think you have to specify "'Limited' Time elemental". I mean, a Water elemental cannot simply drown the world, yet we don't call them "Limited" Water elementals (nor can a Fire elemental burn everything away, et cetera...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? True - But a Time Elemental can simply flow backwards until the appropriate spot and kill you before you even thought of opposing it. Or, stir the dust collecting into your planet a bit and your entire world is changed - Such that you are completely unrecognizable, if you are there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? True - But a Time Elemental can simply flow backwards until the appropriate spot and kill you before you even thought of opposing it. Or' date=' stir the dust collecting into your planet a bit and your entire world is changed - Such that you are completely unrecognizable, if you are there.[/quote'] I see no good reason to allow both time travel and a brittle model of historical change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodkins Odds Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? I see no good reason to allow both time travel and a brittle model of historical change. Neither do I, adventures are so much more rewarding when changing the past is nearly impossible. I also dislike having the ability to write yourself out of the time-stream, since that causes untold measure of logistics problems. I would go with, anything that's happened stays happened, but that doesn't mean it will have happened this time. But that makes it impossible to actually muck about with the past at all, since it will only effect a different timeline. Of course, it does fit easily into a Sliders type campaign since it will be almost impossible to return to your original timeline. PS. A cookie to whoever understood me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? plays the same character in multiple universes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? True - But a Time Elemental can simply flow backwards until the appropriate spot and kill you before you even thought of opposing it. Why? There is no set standard to what a “Time Element” can do. That’s what this thread is about. You are assuming an amount of power and certain abilities, with as far as I can see, no rational for having them be that powerful. Or' date=' stir the dust collecting into your planet a bit and your entire world is changed - Such that you are completely unrecognizable, if you are there.[/quote'] Again, why? Why would a Time Elemental be able to stop the planet from forming any more than a Fire Elemental could burn the earth to a cinder or a Water Elemental could drown all life at once? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? Why? There is no set standard to what a “Time Element” can do. That’s what this thread is about. You are assuming an amount of power and certain abilities, with as far as I can see, no rational for having them be that powerful. Again, why? Why would a Time Elemental be able to stop the planet from forming any more than a Fire Elemental could burn the earth to a cinder or a Water Elemental could drown all life at once? They wouldn't. But they could certainly cause a massive butterfly effect. All I'm doing is taking a few simple logical premises to their logical conclusion. 1) Time Elementals can travel through Time. 2) Time Elementals can affect matter, even if through speeding up and slowing down certain portions of it. Therefore, a Time Elemental could, eventually, travel to any moment in time and affect the matter there. Therefore, in order to have a reasonably defeatable Time Elemental, they must be limited in how far they can travel from the "present". Also, I said nothing about "Stopping the planet from forming". What I meant was, they could change what the planet would look like after it was formed, with, probably, no real control over the specific look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? They wouldn't. But they could certainly cause a massive butterfly effect.. There is no good reason to allow massive butterfly effects in a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? There is no good reason to allow massive butterfly effects in a game. That was my initial point - That allowing a Time Elemental to do the two most powerful things they could logically do *Would* make them too powerful. And then a bunch of people came along and totally misunderstood what I was trying to say. Why am I contributing, again??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? I'm still confused why a Time Elemental would logically have complete, unfettered access to the entire time line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? For the same reason a Water elemental would have complete, unfettered access to the entire body of water into which they are summoned, unless they are limited somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? well, give them a low presence in that "try as they might" they don't impact society that much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted February 13, 2010 Report Share Posted February 13, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? In other words, Limit them, like I suggested in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? Triangle Elemental Slime Elemental Surprise Elemental Graduated Elemental Up Elemental Shakespearean Elemental Elephant Elemental Anger Elemental George Elemental Impoverished Elemental Pink Elemental Militant Elemental Pointless Elemental Lucius Alexander Palindromedary Elemental Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? For the same reason a Water elemental would have complete' date=' unfettered access to the entire body of water into which they are summoned, unless they are [i']limited[/i] somehow. So if you summon one Water Elemental in the Pacific Ocean it can control the entire ocean and any water connected to it? If that's your default I think you need to limit all your Elementals... I guess I don't assume a "Time Elemental" could destroy the universe via time travel (I'm not even sure I would assume it would have unbridled passage through all time) so not letting it do so isn't a matter of "limiting" it since it couldn't do it anyway. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to explain my thinking. I'm thinking that I'm stuck on the use of "limit" for something that is not at all defined, so chalk it up to me getting stuck on the semantics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? I take the implicit definition to be the words involved. A water elemental is made of water, travels through water, causes effects through water... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? The thought has popped into my mind that time elementals could be used as a device to explain why butterfly effects don't happen. They instinctively limit the alterations and redirect history into the previous path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? The thought has popped into my mind that time elementals could be used as a device to explain why butterfly effects don't happen. They instinctively limit the alterations and redirect history into the previous path. Time elementals' nature is to minimize unnatural meddling in the timestream. That's why you have to summon and bind them to get them to do otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowmage87 Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? I would see a time elemental as something like a singularity...not something that has access to the whole time stream, just the local one. But the more of them there are in one area, the more of the timestream they have access to. So, you'd have a lot of cool powers they'd be gaining access to in groups, but not relevant if you're only planning on building one. I'd also see a time elemental as something around which weird things happen, but which doesn't have a lot of outright offensive powers. Basically, just stack auras (persistent effects) around the thing. It obviously needs a speed of twelve, and defensive stuff like the ability to warp projectiles and/or spells around itself by bending space-time (deflection), drain SPD and drain DEX. Offensively a freeze attack (slowing you down to the point where you take cold damage) the ability to turn your attacks back on you, a heat attack (speeding you up so that your body starts overloading and overheating, probably an EB with attached AID SPD and DEX)...the possibilities are endless. I think you could even justify a domination power that forces a PC to repeat a set of actions (they're stuck in a loop in the time stream). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torchwolf Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? So if you summon one Water Elemental in the Pacific Ocean it can control the entire ocean and any water connected to it? If that's your default I think you need to limit all your Elementals... I guess I don't assume a "Time Elemental" could destroy the universe via time travel (I'm not even sure I would assume it would have unbridled passage through all time) so not letting it do so isn't a matter of "limiting" it since it couldn't do it anyway. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to explain my thinking. I'm thinking that I'm stuck on the use of "limit" for something that is not at all defined, so chalk it up to me getting stuck on the semantics... I take the implicit definition to be the words involved. A water elemental is made of water' date=' travels through water, causes effects through water...[/quote'] If I understand you both correctly, you are essentially both stating that a Time Elemental should not be too powerful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 Re: What does a Time Elemental do? The main source of confusion is that it never occurred to anyone else that elementals should have unlimited power in the first place. Particularly in Hero system, which doesn't accommodate omnipotence gladly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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