Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

I'm actually waiting to test it out this weekend. I talked a bunch of people into Playing Predator Saturday as a sort of, "Play HERO, Drop the D20 and Step away!".....If the last two standing, are Dutch and the Predator, then all is good.

 

~Rex

 

How'd the test go?

[wick]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Predator

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

30 STR 20 15- Lift 1600.0kg; 6d6 [3]

21 DEX 33 13- OCV: 7/DCV: 7

25 CON 30 14-

25 BODY 30 14-

20 INT 10 13- PER Roll 13-/15-

15 EGO 10 12- ECV: 5

30 PRE 20 15- PRE Attack: 6d6

0 COM -5 9-

 

6 PD 0 Total: 6 PD (0 rPD)

5 ED 0 Total: 5 ED (0 rED)

4 SPD 9 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12

11 REC 0

50 END 0

50 STUN -3 Total Characteristic Cost: 154

 

Movement: Running: 10"/20"

Leaping: 8"/16"

Swimming: 2"/4"

 

Cost Powers

Helmet, all slots OIF (-½)

4 1) Armored Helmet: Armor (5 PD/5 ED); Activation Roll 8- (or Locations 3-4; -2), OIF (-½)

3 2) Heat Vision: IR Perception (Sight Group); OIF (-½)

3 3) Nightvision; OIF (-½)

7 4) Penetrating Thermal Vision: N-Ray Perception (Sight Group); OIF (-½)

Notes: Blocked by insulating or dense materials.

3 5) Ultra Vision: UV Perception (Sight Group); OIF (-½)

3 6) Visual Light Spectrum Vision: +2 PER with Sight Group; OIF (-½)

26 7) Helmet/Suit: LS (Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing); OIF (-½)

10 8) Targeting Laser: +3 OCV with Plasma Cannon; OIF (-½)

13 9) Universal Translator 13-; OIF (-½)

 

Left Bracer, all slots OIF (left bracer; -½)

20 1) Cloaking Device: Invisibility to Sight Group , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OIF (left bracer; -½)

10 2) Selt-Destruct Device: EB 10d6, MegaScale (1" = 1 km; 1" = 100 meters/50"; +¼), Explosion (+½); 1 Charge which Never Recovers (-4), Extra Time (5 Minutes, countdown; -2), Lockout (cannot use any other left bracer powers once destruct is activated; -½), OIF (left bracer; -½), Gestures (must type in self-destruct code; -¼) [1 nr]

 

Right Bracer, all slots OIF (right bracer; -½)

3 1) Armored Bracer: Armor (5 PD/5 ED); Activation Roll 8- (or Location 8; -2), Right Arm Only (-1), OIF (right bracer; -½)

20 2) Killing Claw: HKA 1d6+1 (2 ½d6 w/STR), Armor Piercing (+½); OIF (right bracer; -½) 3

 

10 Inherent Climbing Skill: Clinging (normal STR)

2 Agile Leaper: Leaping +2" (8" forward, 4" upward) 1

8 Fast Running: Running +4" (10" total) 1

5 Medical Kit: Healing BODY 2d6; Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 ½), 6 Charges (-¾), OIF (-½), Requires A Paramedics Roll (-½) [6]

 

Perks

2 Fringe Benefit: Member of the Tribe

Notes: Includes access to Predator technology and starships.

10 Tribal Base/Vehicle: Vehicles & Bases

Notes: Each member of the tribe contributes to a starship that serves both as a base and means of transportation.

 

Talents

3 Bump Of Direction

3 Resistance (+3 to roll)

 

Skills

3 Acrobatics 13-

3 Analyze: [unspecificed] 13-

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Climbing 13-

2 CuK: Predator Society 11-

2 KS: Alien Species 11-

3 Mimicry 13-

3 Navigation 13-

3 Paramedics 13-

3 Shadowing 13-

3 Stealth 13-

8 Survival (Arctic/Subarctic, Tropical, Mountain, Urban) 13-

3 Systems Operation 13-

3 Tracking 13-

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 213

Total Cost: 367

 

200+ Disadvantages

10 Distinctive Features: 8'+ tall alien humanoid (Easily Concealed (with Cloaking Device), Extreme Reaction (fear), Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses, Not Distinctive In Some Cultures

15 Distinctive Features: Spirit World Disturbance (Not Concealable; Extreme Reaction (fear); Detectable Only By Unusual Senses)

Notes: Those who can sense magic or spirits feel something unnatural is present if not exactly where.

15 Hunted: US Government Division 13 Special Operations 8- (Mo Pow; Capture)

10 Physical Limitation: Naturally More Sensative To The Orange Spectrum Of Visible Light (Infrequently; Greatly Impairing)

Notes: If not wearing helmet suffers the following penalties on Earth-type worlds: -2 PER, -2 OCV, -1 DCV.

25 Psychological Limitation: Code of the Hunter: Will not hunt children, pregnant women, or unarmed opponents. (Very Common; Total)

20 Psychological Limitation: Obsessed With Trophy Collecting (Very Common; Strong)

10 Social Limitation: Heiarchy of Hunters (Occasionally; Major)

62 Experience Points

 

Total Disadvantage Points: 367

 

Optional Equipment:

45 Shoulder Mounted Plasma Cannon: RKA 4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1) 0

30 Spear: Multipower, 60-point reserve, all slots OAF (-1)

3u 1) Hand-Held Spear: HKA 2d6 (3d6+1 w/STR), Armor Piercing (+½), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1) 0

1u 2) Thrown Spear: HKA 2d6 (3d6 w/STR), Range Based On STR (+¼), Armor Piercing (+½); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 ¼), OAF (-1), Lockout (can't use HKA if thrown until spear is recovered; -½) [1 rc]

2 Long Spear: Stretching 1", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); OAF (-1), Only To Cause Damage (-½), Always Direct (-¼), No Noncombat Stretching (-¼), No Velocity Damage (-¼) 0

26 Razor Net: Entangle 3d6, 3 DEF, Hardened (+¼), Uncontrolled (+½), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Continuous (+1); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 ¼), OAF (-1), Cannot Form Barriers (-¼), Range Based On STR (-¼) [1 rc]

23 Razor Net Razors: HKA 1 ½d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), Armor Piercing (+½), Uncontrolled (+½), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Continuous (+1); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 ¼), OAF (-1), Linked (Razor Net; -½) [1 rc]

30 Razor Disc: Multipower, 60-point reserve, all slots OAF (-1)

3u 1) Hand-Held Disc: HKA 2d6 (3d6+1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (½ END; +¼), Armor Piercing (+½); OAF (-1) 2

1u 2) Thrown Disc: HKA 2d6, Range Based On STR (+¼), Autofire (3 shots; +¼), Armor Piercing (+½); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 ¼), OAF (-1), Lockout (can't use HKA if thrown until disc is recovered; -½), No STR Bonus (-½), No Knockback (-¼) [1 rc]

16 Dart Launcher On Right Bracer: RKA 2d6, Armor Piercing (+½); OAF (-1), 3 Recoverable Charges (-¾) [3 rc]

5 Mini-Razor Discs: RKA 1d6; OAF (-1), Range Based On STR (-¼), No Knockback (-¼), 6 Recoverable Charges (-¼) [6 rc]

 

 

Comments:

 

1) I corrected the cost of characteristics. You'd bought the Predator with 5 PD, but then sold back REC and STUN (to 10 and 50), which isn't allowed. I kept the PD at figured (6), the REC at figured (11) and sold back STUN to 50.

 

2) You had applied "difficult to replace" to all foci. The problem is, that only applies to expendable foci. It has nothing to do with how hard it is to repair or replace if damaged. I removed it in all cases.

 

3) I settled on a standardized set of foci values for equipment. For example, you had the helmet as OIF and IIF, I settled on a flat OIF.

 

4) You'd applied 0 END to Enhanced Senses, which don't need them. I removed those.

 

5) One could argue that the Universal Translator gets a -1/4 of "Spoken Languages Only".

 

6) I removed the EC for the bracer and simply made it to in dependent powers. There's no common theme to Invisibility and Self Destruct.

 

7) I'd argue that in a supers game you could drop the DF.

 

8) I'd argue that you could fold the two DFs together into a single "alien presence" DF.

 

9) I think the Phys Lim dealing with how they see is something akin to "sees only in Infrared," but that's just my opinion.

 

10) I also think you could fold both Psych Lims into one "Obsessed with the Hunt" and include the code/rules of the hunt into that.

 

11) You had the plasma cannon as an EC. I removed that.

 

12) I built the spear as a multipower. It seemed simpler that way.

 

13) I think the razor net needs to be rewritten. As it is, it will kill anyone caught in it. Shouldn't the razors only effect those who try to escape it?

 

14) I built the Razor Disc as a multipower as well. I think you could do the hitting three targets trick as a form of AOE.

 

15) You wrote 0 END as +1 in several places, so I fixed that.

 

16) Any reason why so many of the weapons are KA 2d6 AP?

 

1.) Oops

2.) I will have another look at Foci. The effect that I was going for: in the movies his gear gets damaged and basically put out of commission for the rest of the movie. At the end of the day he can just snap on another plasma cannon or whip out another spear. Also as depicted in AVP, it appears that at least some of their equipment is awarded as a rite of passage. while on the Hunting expedition any equipment cannot be replaces but when the Predator returns to his ship he can replace/repair some of his equipment ( I call this the basic kit and includes the Bracer claws, cloaking device, etc. Basically what all Predators should have) so difficult to replace since he had to wait until the end of the hunt. If your life support system gets damaged early...too bad.. suck it up and continue the hunt or die trying. The items which I labled as extremly difficult to replace are things that even at the conclusion of the hunt, the Predator cannot just goto the armory and replace. He may have to return to the homeworld or perhaps undergo a quest to replace. I see now that this applies to expendables which these items are not.

 

3. OIF for all is probably a good idea and it standardizes it. I just did not think that the Universal translator would be Obvious

 

4. Oops. will fix

 

5. Good Call. I think that I was originally going to include this but forgot.

 

6. The whole commonality for the Environmental control was "Power" All of these devices require an electrical feed from the suits power supply. The self distruct system is actually the power supply being put into a controlled overload mode that results in an explosion. If an adjustment power hits the EC then all of the slots are affected...such as a drain/transfer: electricity. That seems reasonable to me but I am pretty new at this.

 

7. I would think that if you see this dude walk uncloaked into your local Starbucks that it would cause an extreme reaction to say the least. If your world has many alien visits and people may be used to seeing strange looking people then the reaction might be different but then again this guy would still be pretty intimidating practically reeking of menace. You may argue that he is easily disguised after all he does have a man portable cloaking device but this guy should attract notice otherwise.

 

8. The reason for the other distinctive features is to simulate the reactions of spiritually attuned indivduals to the Predators presence. The predator's Presence as detected by the attuned individual basically gives them the Heebie Jeebies and they have a feeling that something is not right or the feeling of being watched. It is not really a Perception roll to see a detail per se. And this is something that cannot be cloaked, concealed, or stealthed. The SPEC OPS tracker Billy knows that something is out there but he cannot target the invisible Predator nor even pinpoint him really. He just has a very bad feeling and it is making him very afraid. Combining both DF's does not follow becuase they are completely different.

 

9. This has been changed in my latest version but good catch.

 

10. I initially tried to put this as one limitation but it made the limitation pretty complex and had two somewhat related but different aspects:

A. Obsessed with trophy collection: A limitation becuase it can be used against him as in the trap that the comando team set to take the Predator out. The Predator had to know that there was a trap but was compelled to sneak in and steal the body (Granted he could bypass the traps via the trees.) And later he felt compelled to go after the obvious Arnold Schwarzenaeger sized bait into a trap with much better results from the commando team's trap.

B. The code vs killing innocents/ unarmed: This can be a limitation in a few ways such as not killing an innocent that can make it's presence known. Maybe that harmless bum in the card board box next to the meat packing plant has seen the strange, indistinct form leap onto the plant's roof top for the last couple of weeks and howl beastial howls, might have good intel for heroes investigating a serial murderer. A martial artist that uses no weapons or a hero with inobvious attack powers can really surprise the Predator to catch him off guard, at least initially. If the heroine that confronts him is actually pregnant he will likely choose to flee than to fight the Heroine rather than kill her (The female detective from Predator 2 was armed and was injured before the Predator could tell she was pregnant.) Since I wrote this up as a total Psych lim this may cause some issues if cornered by the Heroine, perhaps he would then only attempt to knock out or subdue.

 

11. See point number 6. Also in my latest version the Plasma cannon is an upgrade and not part of the base package.

 

12. The spear: I based the design off of the spear in the Hand to Hand Weapon Section: Weapon Length pg 480. A regular spear is not built as an MP and the Pred's Spear is really just a hi tech spear. Making it into an MP is certainly an option but is it necessary or even a better way to build the spear? I may look at it to see if it gives any price breaks.

 

13. Are you kidding? In both Predator 2 and especially as detailed in AVP, those nets winched down tight causing constant damage designed to kill not capture alive.

 

14. Certainly worth looking at. I don't remember if the discs were ever used on several targets in one throw but it may be interesting to look at. In my current version I built it with Autofire 2-3 targets.

 

15. This is an earlier version but I will look through it again to make sure I have the right values on the current version

 

16. 2d6 Killing Attack AP?: Armor piercing to simulate the metal that is super sharp, strong, and not found on Earth. Also because the blades seem to pass through fairly tough materials like butter. I don't have a super good rationale for 2D6, I wanted the damage to be more than an earth version i.e. Predator spear more damaging than earth steel spear. Pred spear is 2D6 while Earth Medium Spear 1 1/2 D6 HKA, so it is only 1/2 D6 more really. I built my Predator spear first and so used it as the standard. I did try to make it so that each weapon brought a different ability to the table but each is balanced with each other so there is a reason for the Predator to spear one guy, razor disc 2 more the next round, and bracer claw another guy a round later, rather than just use one attack that is more efficient than the others all of the time. Are you saying that 2D6 is too little of damage?

[RexMundi]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Looking good.....I may have to play test the critter and see if I can get a TPK out of it.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

2.) I will have another look at Foci. The effect that I was going for: in the movies his gear gets damaged and basically put out of commission for the rest of the movie. At the end of the day he can just snap on another plasma cannon or whip out another spear. Also as depicted in AVP, it appears that at least some of their equipment is awarded as a rite of passage. while on the Hunting expedition any equipment cannot be replaces but when the Predator returns to his ship he can replace/repair some of his equipment ( I call this the basic kit and includes the Bracer claws, cloaking device, etc. Basically what all Predators should have) so difficult to replace since he had to wait until the end of the hunt. If your life support system gets damaged early...too bad.. suck it up and continue the hunt or die trying. The items which I labled as extremly difficult to replace are things that even at the conclusion of the hunt, the Predator cannot just goto the armory and replace. He may have to return to the homeworld or perhaps undergo a quest to replace. I see now that this applies to expendables which these items are not.

 

Correct. HERO doesn't judge Foci on how hard they are to repair if damaged. On the other hand, how often does one expect the Predator's gear to be damaged?

 

3. OIF for all is probably a good idea and it standardizes it. I just did not think that the Universal translator would be Obvious

 

If a Foci has multiple functions, you'll have to assign the Foci lim based on the most obvious function. In other words, if you have an OAF HKA sword, and the sword gives you the Universal Translator talent, that's OAF too, even if it's not apparent the sword is translating. At least, in my opinion, this is how it should work.

 

5. Good Call. I think that I was originally going to include this but forgot.

 

6. The whole commonality for the Environmental control was "Power" All of these devices require an electrical feed from the suits power supply. The self distruct system is actually the power supply being put into a controlled overload mode that results in an explosion. If an adjustment power hits the EC then all of the slots are affected...such as a drain/transfer: electricity. That seems reasonable to me but I am pretty new at this.

 

Sorry, no. Requiring an electrical feed is just an effect of having an END Battery and REC score for said battery. For an Elemental Control, you need a tight set of special effects to link them. For example, Cold, Fire, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Electricity, and so on. So, as I said, going invisible and exploding like a mini-nuke doesn't really qualify.

 

7. I would think that if you see this dude walk uncloaked into your local Starbucks that it would cause an extreme reaction to say the least. If your world has many alien visits and people may be used to seeing strange looking people then the reaction might be different but then again this guy would still be pretty intimidating practically reeking of menace. You may argue that he is easily disguised after all he does have a man portable cloaking device but this guy should attract notice otherwise.

 

I said that as Takofanes gets his DF for having an aura of evil, not for being a mummified dead guy. I know people lean either way on the DF question, and it's not a big (to me) deal.

 

8. The reason for the other distinctive features is to simulate the reactions of spiritually attuned indivduals to the Predators presence. The predator's Presence as detected by the attuned individual basically gives them the Heebie Jeebies and they have a feeling that something is not right or the feeling of being watched. It is not really a Perception roll to see a detail per se. And this is something that cannot be cloaked, concealed, or stealthed. The SPEC OPS tracker Billy knows that something is out there but he cannot target the invisible Predator nor even pinpoint him really. He just has a very bad feeling and it is making him very afraid. Combining both DF's does not follow becuase they are completely different.

 

See, I'd argue that isn't a DF for the Predator, just various Detects and the like for Billy and characters like him. Now, he might have a DF of "Alien Presence"

which would trigger animals and the like, since they now smell something they don't understand at all, but I never considered it a spirtually-attuned affect.

 

10. I initially tried to put this as one limitation but it made the limitation pretty complex and had two somewhat related but different aspects:

A. Obsessed with trophy collection: A limitation becuase it can be used against him as in the trap that the comando team set to take the Predator out. The Predator had to know that there was a trap but was compelled to sneak in and steal the body (Granted he could bypass the traps via the trees.) And later he felt compelled to go after the obvious Arnold Schwarzenaeger sized bait into a trap with much better results from the commando team's trap.

B. The code vs killing innocents/ unarmed: This can be a limitation in a few ways such as not killing an innocent that can make it's presence known. Maybe that harmless bum in the card board box next to the meat packing plant has seen the strange, indistinct form leap onto the plant's roof top for the last couple of weeks and howl beastial howls, might have good intel for heroes investigating a serial murderer. A martial artist that uses no weapons or a hero with inobvious attack powers can really surprise the Predator to catch him off guard, at least initially. If the heroine that confronts him is actually pregnant he will likely choose to flee than to fight the Heroine rather than kill her (The female detective from Predator 2 was armed and was injured before the Predator could tell she was pregnant.) Since I wrote this up as a total Psych lim this may cause some issues if cornered by the Heroine, perhaps he would then only attempt to knock out or subdue.

 

I think this is a case of different interpretations of the character.

 

11. See point number 6. Also in my latest version the Plasma cannon is an upgrade and not part of the base package.

 

And see my comments on Point Number 6.

 

12. The spear: I based the design off of the spear in the Hand to Hand Weapon Section: Weapon Length pg 480. A regular spear is not built as an MP and the Pred's Spear is really just a hi tech spear. Making it into an MP is certainly an option but is it necessary or even a better way to build the spear? I may look at it to see if it gives any price breaks.

 

A price break isn't the point. Also, I've seen throwing knives done this way. You can also do it with a Naked Advantage, but the Multipower was (IMO) the simplest way to build the effect.

 

13. Are you kidding? In both Predator 2 and especially as detailed in AVP, those nets winched down tight causing constant damage designed to kill not capture alive.

 

*shrug* I saw Predator 2 once and wasn't all that impressed and have no desire to see the AVP films.

 

14. Certainly worth looking at. I don't remember if the discs were ever used on several targets in one throw but it may be interesting to look at. In my current version I built it with Autofire 2-3 targets.

 

Didn't he throw the disc through a line of cow carcasses at one point? That's an AOE line if he did.

 

15. This is an earlier version but I will look through it again to make sure I have the right values on the current version

 

16. 2d6 Killing Attack AP?: Armor piercing to simulate the metal that is super sharp, strong, and not found on Earth. Also because the blades seem to pass through fairly tough materials like butter. I don't have a super good rationale for 2D6, I wanted the damage to be more than an earth version i.e. Predator spear more damaging than earth steel spear. Pred spear is 2D6 while Earth Medium Spear 1 1/2 D6 HKA, so it is only 1/2 D6 more really. I built my Predator spear first and so used it as the standard. I did try to make it so that each weapon brought a different ability to the table but each is balanced with each other so there is a reason for the Predator to spear one guy, razor disc 2 more the next round, and bracer claw another guy a round later, rather than just use one attack that is more efficient than the others all of the time. Are you saying that 2D6 is too little of damage?

 

No, I was thinking that with 30 STR, the Predator is going to be doing a lot of damage. You might want to consider something akin to Real Weapon to keep a Predator from tossing his weaponry through bank vaults and military armored vehicles.

[RexMundi]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

I second the Real Weapon......

 

~Rex

[wick]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Thanks for the advice, it is certainly making me retool the design, as well as, relook at the premises behind the powers/advantages/lims/disadvantages. I see the Real weapon is so he can't cut through bank vaults and armored cars.

 

I will look at the AoE Line for the disc but i think that you can do something similiar with Autofire. The line might make more sense though since anything in the path will be attacked. With autofire, if I recall, you can do a line but it is not necessary.

 

I think AVP is worth watching it is certainly better than most of the later movies in the Alien Franchise. And it does not throw too big of monkey wrenches in the mythology. my two biggest gripes are #1 Alien Predator hybrid....stupid on many levels. and #2 predators in Antartica when they were first represented as prefering to hunt in hot areas. Even suspending disbelief, no one should be running around Antartica without some sort of cold weather gear much less a creature that prefers the Hot extremes of Earth's Climate. At any rate, in one scene one of the Corporation' s Mercs gets netted and he quickly get's his assault rifle up to push back on the net as it squeezes down. The Net starts to cuts through his weapon and can cleary be seen to be winding back up with the Merc inside it, the net getting smaller. One human tried to pull the net off with his hands but suffers cuts to his hands and another tries to cut the net with a knife but ends up with half a knife. In a different scene an Alien gets netted but it's acid blood burns through the net maybe after a few segments. Pretty good overall movie I give it 80% good work.

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

I will look at the AoE Line for the disc but i think that you can do something similiar with Autofire. The line might make more sense though since anything in the path will be attacked. With autofire' date=' if I recall, you can do a line but it is not necessary. [/quote']

 

Autofire lets you hit people all over, but you take minuses based on how many empty hexes you have between targets. AOE Line lets you hit everyone in a line with one attack roll.

 

I think AVP is worth watching it is certainly better than most of the later movies in the Alien Franchise. And it does not throw too big of monkey wrenches in the mythology. my two biggest gripes are #1 Alien Predator hybrid....stupid on many levels. and #2 predators in Antartica when they were first represented as prefering to hunt in hot areas. Even suspending disbelief, no one should be running around Antartica without some sort of cold weather gear much less a creature that prefers the Hot extremes of Earth's Climate. At any rate, in one scene one of the Corporation' s Mercs gets netted and he quickly get's his assault rifle up to push back on the net as it squeezes down. The Net starts to cuts through his weapon and can cleary be seen to be winding back up with the Merc inside it, the net getting smaller. One human tried to pull the net off with his hands but suffers cuts to his hands and another tries to cut the net with a knife but ends up with half a knife. In a different scene an Alien gets netted but it's acid blood burns through the net maybe after a few segments. Pretty good overall movie I give it 80% good work.

 

Actually, everything I've heard makes me think that AVP 1 was no better than Alien 4. And AVP 2 was just plain terrible. So I've decided to ignore those films for not being worth my time and effort.

 

Oh, and I understand you've done a xenomorph character, have you seen mine?

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/movies/alien.html

[wick]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Autofire lets you hit people all over, but you take minuses based on how many empty hexes you have between targets. AOE Line lets you hit everyone in a line with one attack roll.

 

 

 

Actually, everything I've heard makes me think that AVP 1 was no better than Alien 4. And AVP 2 was just plain terrible. So I've decided to ignore those films for not being worth my time and effort.

 

Oh, and I understand you've done a xenomorph character, have you seen mine?

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/movies/alien.html

 

I can't access that site from work but if that is the Alien from LV-246 write up, I surely did. I will have to make sure to credit you in the comments since my drone lifestage has very similiar stats, most of the powers, and most of the skills are the same. i believe that I handled that acid blood in a different fashion. I also made the queen the base "character" with summon Face hugger ability bought as a Foci with charges (the eggs are the Foci/charge). The face hugger had a delayed effect summon Chest burster etc... quite an ambitious project. As I create new characters i learn new things which make me go back and revisit older projects.

 

As for your Predator comments:

I kinda get your point with using the same Focus description with the mixed OIF/IIF foci being only one item. But in some ways that does not make sense. Obvious come into play when heroes want to disarm or take away a specific ability by removing the focus...i.e. the predator obviously uses his helmet to breath so the heroes can try to damage or remove the helmet. If it were extremely important to disrupt the Predator's ability to communicate then it may not be so obvious that his helmet allows him to understand their language. (probably a poor example since Universal translator is not a big threat usually but say a wizard has a staff that obviously emits light but inobviously summons hellish demons. In this case the players could take his staff to deprive him of his light source and infact deprive him of both powers without knowing it, but they would not know that they needed to destroy/remove the staff in order to stop the horde of demons from being summoned.)

 

Distinctive feature: unnatural aura: The mystical aspect is hinted at in the first movie but could be written off as some primeval/animal sense as you say, but in Predator 2 it comes off as more mystical, reference the discussion between LT harrigan and King Willy. The "Voodoo" King was definitely into Voodoo and occult practices and if I remember correctly he was blind (try to make that Perception roll.) And with both of these characters they confront the predator with just a sword, Man to Alien (i had not noticed this pattern before..interesting.) So that leans more to Native American shamanism (the bag around Billy's neck is his "medicine bag") and African Voodoo rather than instinct. The rest of the commando team were not really all that antsy except when they noticed their Fearless Indian tracker scared S***less, that freaked them out. By making it a distinctive feature on the predator you don't have to give the power to " Detect predator/Alien presence/etc.." to every random character they face. This is meant to be a villian in a long line of villians that the PCs will face, that does not seem right to put the onus on them to pic up this power for a villian they may fight a hand full of times.

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

I can't access that site from work but if that is the Alien from LV-246 write up' date=' I surely did. I will have to make sure to credit you in the comments since my drone lifestage has very similiar stats, most of the powers, and most of the skills are the same. i believe that I handled that acid blood in a different fashion. I also made the queen the base "character" with summon Face hugger ability bought as a Foci with charges (the eggs are the Foci/charge). The face hugger had a delayed effect summon Chest burster etc... quite an ambitious project. As I create new characters i learn new things which make me go back and revisit older projects. [/quote']

 

I'm not sure it would work like that. If the Queen uses a Foci and Charges to summon facehuggers, then removing the Foci removes the ability to summon facehuggers. Also, the chargers is how many can be summoned in a specific time period (usually one day). Based on Aliens, there is no Foci, as the tail/birthing tube is part of the Queen (mostly as she does tear free from it to pursue Ripley). Also, as she can birth dozens of eggs (as seen in Aliens I'm not sure how Charges would come into play. If you do use the Summon method, I'd argue that it takes Extra Time to produce and egg and that the egg takes some time to mature (possibly... that parts not clear). Actually, Extra Time (1 Turn to 1 Minute) and Increased END Cost (x2) works, to represent the time and effort it takes the Queen to produce an egg. Also, Concentration (1/2 DCV) Throughout, since the Queen can't do it on the fly (might even be 0 DCV, since she was sort of "stuck there" in place.

 

As for your Predator comments:

I kinda get your point with using the same Focus description with the mixed OIF/IIF foci being only one item. But in some ways that does not make sense. Obvious come into play when heroes want to disarm or take away a specific ability by removing the focus...i.e. the predator obviously uses his helmet to breath so the heroes can try to damage or remove the helmet. If it were extremely important to disrupt the Predator's ability to communicate then it may not be so obvious that his helmet allows him to understand their language. (probably a poor example since Universal translator is not a big threat usually but say a wizard has a staff that obviously emits light but inobviously summons hellish demons. In this case the players could take his staff to deprive him of his light source and infact deprive him of both powers without knowing it, but they would not know that they needed to destroy/remove the staff in order to stop the horde of demons from being summoned.)

 

The problem is one of how the power is perceived (Obvious versus Inobvious). However, if Foci A offers more than one power, I've never seen an official character (that I can recall in 5E) have split Limitations. Personally, I think that in the case of your wizard and his staff, he's going to get OAF on both his Images (create light) and Summon (summon demons), because the staff is an obvious item in his hand. If it was a ring that did both, then I could see IIF on both (since the ring might not be obvious and you can't just Grab it).

 

This also may fall under lower common denominator. If Foci A can three powers, and two of them are Obvious, then the third should simply get the OAF as well. Think of it as a Multipower.

 

Distinctive feature: unnatural aura: The mystical aspect is hinted at in the first movie but could be written off as some primeval/animal sense as you say, but in Predator 2 it comes off as more mystical, reference the discussion between LT harrigan and King Willy. The "Voodoo" King was definitely into Voodoo and occult practices and if I remember correctly he was blind (try to make that Perception roll.) And with both of these characters they confront the predator with just a sword, Man to Alien (i had not noticed this pattern before..interesting.) So that leans more to Native American shamanism (the bag around Billy's neck is his "medicine bag") and African Voodoo rather than instinct. The rest of the commando team were not really all that antsy except when they noticed their Fearless Indian tracker scared S***less, that freaked them out. By making it a distinctive feature on the predator you don't have to give the power to " Detect predator/Alien presence/etc.." to every random character they face. This is meant to be a villian in a long line of villians that the PCs will face, that does not seem right to put the onus on them to pic up this power for a villian they may fight a hand full of times.

 

Except I'd argue that Billy does have some sort of "Magical Native American" sense that was picking up the Predator. So he doesn't have "Detect Predator" he has some sort of Danger Sense (Intuitional) that the Predator triggered.

[RexMundi]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Or, Billy has a few Levels for Perception. It doesn't always have to be a Super Power.

 

~Rex

[Jhamin]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Except I'd argue that Billy does have some sort of "Magical Native American" sense that was picking up the Predator. So he doesn't have "Detect Predator" he has some sort of Danger Sense (Intuitional) that the Predator triggered.

 

I agree. The *only* people that detect the Predator this way are folks that have it as part of their concept that they sense things others do not. Regardless of how you buy that ability, it is pretty easy to argue that Billy or the Jamaican Voodoo guy from P2 have bought some sort of "special senses" ability.

 

Remember that just because Spiderman can tell you are about to hit him, you don't get to take "visible to spider-sense" as a complication. They have a power, you don't have a disadvantage

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Or, Billy has a few Levels for Perception. It doesn't always have to be a Super Power.

 

~Rex

 

Considering some of the other stunts pulled by other characters, I think it's fair to give Billy some sort of Danger Sense. And some levels in Perception.

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Man, now I need to write up the Predator from P1 and Dutch and his squad.

[wick]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Ok, it makes more sense now with the OAF. I was thinking the obvious/inobvious was for knowing whether a power came from the Foci? The way Susano explained the concept is that the Foci is what is obvious or inobvious. The predator is obvious wearing a helmet/mask, regardless of the powers it contains, the FOCI is obvious.

 

On the other hand:

From the book 2nd paragraph under Obvious heading in the Focus section: " If a Focus is Obvious it's clear to anyone looking at the character that the power comes from the Focus -no PER roll is necessary. This is important becuase opponents know where the power comes and can attempt to disable the Focus or take it away." It does not mention different levels of obviousness on one Foci.

 

Susano I will post my write up for the Alien Queen in a different thread but it does include concentration, expendable charges, extra time. I was not sure of the rate of production so I said that every 6 hours a new egg can be produced ( if resources or surrounding prey are low it can lay a bunch of eggs and hibernate, simulate through roleplaying, but she will produce at max capacity if prey is plentiful.)

 

Please advise on how detects work. Say you have a mutant detector. Would the target not have to have DF: Mutant to be detected by a mutant detector or would it work as well on a character that has "Mutant" as his character concept but not the DF: mutant? I don't think the special feature needs to be a DF, unless it is disadvantageous to be recognized by that distinctive feature, such as being a mutant in a world where they are persecuted or treated more negatively than a regular person. If mutants are generally accepted in society then your mutant detector will work but the target will not have to have DF: Mutant he can just go with character concept.

 

Judging from the two, spiritual/magical characters' reaction to the Predator, I will say there is a definite negative reaction towards the predator. Both of these characters felt that they needed to fight the Predator in one on one combat despite the the danger and other viable options. For example, Billy could have tried to flee with his team and King Willy could have hid behind his drug cartel or took a vaction until the predator left, but no, both felt that they had to face the Creature with only basic weapons. My premise is that the predator's presence will have this effect on any person that has this detect: Mystical, spiritual, whatever. So far 100% of the characters that have been introduced as spiritually/mystically inclined to the story have had the same negative reaction. Maybe not every spiritualist would have this reaction but I am making the assumption that all do with no evidence to the contrary. Not logical ( 2 people that can mystically detect predators have an irrational, negative reaction to predators therefore all people that can mystically detect predators will have this same reaction is my premise but is a Logic fallacy.) but just an assumption.

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Ok, it makes more sense now with the OAF. I was thinking the obvious/inobvious was for knowing whether a power came from the Foci? The way Susano explained the concept is that the Foci is what is obvious or inobvious. The predator is obvious wearing a helmet/mask, regardless of the powers it contains, the FOCI is obvious.

 

On the other hand:

From the book 2nd paragraph under Obvious heading in the Focus section: " If a Focus is Obvious it's clear to anyone looking at the character that the power comes from the Focus -no PER roll is necessary. This is important becuase opponents know where the power comes and can attempt to disable the Focus or take it away." It does not mention different levels of obviousness on one Foci.

 

In my opinion, you go with what's "most damaging." If your Foci is a sword (OAF HKA) but also gives you IR vision (which is an IAF effect) you get the OAF on both, because people who see and react to the HKA can also remove your IR vision without knowing it.

 

Susano I will post my write up for the Alien Queen in a different thread but it does include concentration, expendable charges, extra time. I was not sure of the rate of production so I said that every 6 hours a new egg can be produced ( if resources or surrounding prey are low it can lay a bunch of eggs and hibernate, simulate through roleplaying, but she will produce at max capacity if prey is plentiful.)

 

Please advise on how detects work. Say you have a mutant detector. Would the target not have to have DF: Mutant to be detected by a mutant detector or would it work as well on a character that has "Mutant" as his character concept but not the DF: mutant? I don't think the special feature needs to be a DF, unless it is disadvantageous to be recognized by that distinctive feature, such as being a mutant in a world where they are persecuted or treated more negatively than a regular person. If mutants are generally accepted in society than your mutant detector will work but the target will not have to have DF: Mutant he can just go with character concept.

 

Based on how things have been presented before, you don't need the DF to trigger the Detect. For example, a spell of "Detect Dragons" don't require dragons to have "DF: Dragon."

 

Judging from the two' date=' spiritual/magical characters' reaction to the Predator, I will say there is a definite negative reaction towards the predator. Both of these characters felt that they needed to fight the Predator in one on one combat despite the the danger and other viable options. For example, Billy could have tried to flee with his team and King Willy could have hid behind his drug cartel or took a vaction until the predator left, but no, both felt that they had to face the Creature with only basic weapons. My premise is that the predator's presence will have this effect on any person that has this detect: Mystical, spiritual, whatever. So far 100% of the characters that have been introduced as spiritually/mystically inclined have had the same negative reaction. Maybe would not have this reaction but I am making the assumption that all do with no evidence to the contrary. Not logical ( 2 people that can mystically detect predators have an irrational, negative reaction to predators therefore all people that can mystically detect predators will have this same reaction is my premise but is a Logic fallacy.) but just an assumption.[/quote']

 

I think you're over-analyzing the actions of characters in action films where confrontation with the Predator are scripted in.

[wick]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

In my opinion, you go with what's "most damaging." If your Foci is a sword (OAF HKA) but also gives you IR vision (which is an IAF effect) you get the OAF on both, because people who see and react to the HKA can also remove your IR vision without knowing it.

 

I think you are confusing Accessibility for Obviousness. So in your example of a sword Foci: if the sword is a 2D6 HKA (30 active pts) but also has has the power to summon A greater Demon (60 Active points for a 300 point Demon) just by holding the sword and the summoners will, then the sword is an IAF. That makes no sense.

You are clearly arguing Accessibility which is the ability of the Foci to be deprived/ or attacked. All powers on the Foci should have the same accessability since if you take the example sword you deprive the character of all powers attached to it whether you know that the sword is the source of the powers or not. (an exception may be a power you could use from the sword even when not in your possession but this should not be attached to a Focus and instead be bought as a regular power instead.)

 

 

Based on how things have been presented before, you don't need the DF to trigger the Detect. For example, a spell of "Detect Dragons" don't require dragons to have "DF: Dragon."

 

Right. Detect Human Female: No DF needed. Detect Dragon: In a world where being a dragon causes a negative effect such as hatred or fear or villagers to form mobs to attack you then DF: Dragon definitely as long as there is a disadvantage either slight or extreme.

 

I think you're over-analyzing the actions of characters in action films where confrontation with the Predator are scripted in.

Definitely over-analyzing. 8) But it is suspicious that these characters both came from Animist cultures and reacted in almost the exact same fashion despite common sense showing them a better course of action. In the AVP films there were no mystics as far as we know.

1

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

In my opinion, you go with what's "most damaging." If your Foci is a sword (OAF HKA) but also gives you IR vision (which is an IAF effect) you get the OAF on both, because people who see and react to the HKA can also remove your IR vision without knowing it.

 

I think you are confusing Accessibility for Obviousness. So in your example of a sword Foci: if the sword is a 2D6 HKA (30 active pts) but also has has the power to summon A greater Demon (60 Active points for a 300 point Demon) just by holding the sword and the summoners will, then the sword is an IAF. That makes no sense.

You are clearly arguing Accessibility which is the ability of the Foci to be deprived/ or attacked. All powers on the Foci should have the same accessability since if you take the example sword you deprive the character of all powers attached to it whether you know that the sword is the source of the powers or not. (an exception may be a power you could use from the sword even when not in your possession but this should not be attached to a Focus and instead be bought as a regular power instead.)

 

No, I'm not. I stated that the HKA part of the sword is a OAF (Obvious Acessible Foci) effect while the IR Vision part of the sword is an IAF (Inobvous Accessible Foci) effect. So I'm aware of the differences between your HKA being Obvious and (in your example) demon summoning being Inobvious. However, in my opinion, in a case where a foci offers various powers of different Obviousness, then you go with what is most damaging to the PC. In other words, if you your Obvious Predator armored helmet also offers vision enchancement, Life Support, and Universal Translator, all of these powers should get a flat OIF, not OIF for the armor and Life Support part, but IIF for the IR Vision Universal Translator. My reasoning is that add a pile of secondary Inobvious powers to your Obvious primary foci, you need to suffer the consequences of losing the primary foci. The problem is when the character only does the Inobvious stuff with his foci.... But even then, there should be some way to tell the sword is letting the character summon demons, otherwise why even make it ia foci?

 

Based on how things have been presented before, you don't need the DF to trigger the Detect. For example, a spell of "Detect Dragons" don't require dragons to have "DF: Dragon."

 

Right. Detect Human Female: No DF needed. Detect Dragon: In a world where being a dragon causes a negative effect such as hatred or fear or villagers to form mobs to attack you then DF: Dragon definitely as long as there is a disadvantage either slight or extreme.

 

Except that now you're talking Negative Reputation and the like. I can tell you right now, that in an official Hero book, you're not going to see "DF: Dragon," but you will see "Negative Reputation: Dragon."

 

I think you're over-analyzing the actions of characters in action films where confrontation with the Predator are scripted in.

Definitely over-analyzing. 8) But it is suspicious that these characters both came from Animist cultures and reacted in almost the exact same fashion despite common sense showing them a better course of action. In the AVP films there were no mystics as far as we know.

 

Well, I also think you're mixing real-world animist cultures with Hollywood's takes on side cultures.

[wick]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Susano:

 

The consquences of losing the primary focus is that all powers (both Obvious and inobvious) are lost. Most of the time all the powers on the focus should share the same accessibility. Accessibility is basically how easy it is to deprive the character of his focus. Obviousness is being able to identify that a power is connected to that Focus. In my Demon sword example, I would have to tell the heroes that thew sword the character is carrying is a HKA and it summons a demon if both powers are defined as being obvious. You are right there should be a way to detect the Inobvious power but it is not immediately apparent that the sword not only slices and dices, but also summons a demon. You walk up to a guy with a sword( pretty obvious that is a HKA) he summons a demon (not really clear that it came from the sword.) unless you have says some detect magical abiliites or the like. Now, if my hero knows a villian can summon a demon and he really does not want the villian to summon the demon he will have to try to figure out how to stop that power.

 

I do get what you are saying, if a hero knows a power comes from a focus then it makes the focus a tempting target and puts the other IAFs at risk. If the hero is trying to stop the inobvious power he has to find a way to determine where it is coming from. If he is just trying to stop the Obvious power and takes the Focus, well that is the price of putting all your eggs in on focus basket.

 

Predator will not likely have a negative reputation since few survive to tell the tale or only a very few individauls know something about it, but he would definitely cause a reaction if he walked into a crowded room of strangers that have no idea that he murders sentient beings and are used to seeing Alien lifeforms (with DF, even a campaign world that has seen a host of extra terrestrials, won't react favorably to his presence.) I would think that a dragon may have none, one, or both depending on how you want the world to behave towards it. Reputation seems more to an indivual..i.e...Black Barts coming into town..hide all the goats, but I suppose it can be for a race as well. The case for reputation could be made if the Predators were widely known in the campaign world, these guys are much to clandestine to be widely known. Please note: Anna's people from Predator 1 may have known a few things but that is mostly legends and not widely known.

 

Mixing real world cultures with Hollywood side cultures? I am not sure what you are getting at? Billy was a Native American Shaman type and King Willy practiced African Voodoo and I am try to simulate a character from a movie by how it interacts with Hollywood equivalents of real cultures. Please note that both of the real world cultures have Native American shamans and Voodoo witch doctors that supposedly have insight into the "spirit world" . In the real world if a predator like species came to Earth I doubt that these type of people would have any more insight towards these aliens than anyone else, but in the Predaor movies they do and that is what I am trying to simulate. I am also extrapolating from 2 examples, that other shamanic type individuals would have the same reaction.

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Susano:

 

The consquences of losing the primary focus is that all powers (both Obvious and inobvious) are lost. Most of the time all the powers on the focus should share the same accessibility. Accessibility is basically how easy it is to deprive the character of his focus. Obviousness is being able to identify that a power is connected to that Focus. In my Demon sword example, I would have to tell the heroes that thew sword the character is carrying is a HKA and it summons a demon if both powers are defined as being obvious. You are right there should be a way to detect the Inobvious power but it is not immediately apparent that the sword not only slices and dices, but also summons a demon. You walk up to a guy with a sword( pretty obvious that is a HKA) he summons a demon (not really clear that it came from the sword.) unless you have says some detect magical abiliites or the like. Now, if my hero knows a villian can summon a demon and he really does not want the villian to summon the demon he will have to try to figure out how to stop that power.

 

I do get what you are saying, if a hero knows a power comes from a focus then it makes the focus a tempting target and puts the other IAFs at risk. If the hero is trying to stop the inobvious power he has to find a way to determine where it is coming from. If he is just trying to stop the Obvious power and takes the Focus, well that is the price of putting all your eggs in on focus basket.

 

Speaking of this, I'll point out that in every published Powered Armor character I've seen has a blanket OIF for everything connected to the armor. Even such thing as Life Support and IR Perception (Sight Group). Stuff that's totally passive, doesn't cost END, and isn't apparent when it's being used. So I'm of he opinion that if a foci has multiple powers, then all of the powers have the foci limitation as the most obvious one. Thus, in the case of the sword that also summons demons, both powers (HKA and Summon) are OAF.

 

Predator will not likely have a negative reputation since few survive to tell the tale or only a very few individauls know something about it, but he would definitely cause a reaction if he walked into a crowded room of strangers that have no idea that he murders sentient beings and are used to seeing Alien lifeforms (with DF, even a campaign world that has seen a host of extra terrestrials, won't react favorably to his presence.) I would think that a dragon may have none, one, or both depending on how you want the world to behave towards it. Reputation seems more to an indivual..i.e...Black Barts coming into town..hide all the goats, but I suppose it can be for a race as well. The case for reputation could be made if the Predators were widely known in the campaign world, these guys are much to clandestine to be widely known. Please note: Anna's people from Predator 1 may have known a few things but that is mostly legends and not widely known.

 

Reputations (Positive and Negative) can apply to both individuals and races. I've seen some published examples from both the Star Hero and Fantasy Hero settings DOJ produces. As for the Predator, if used as seen in the films (individual on an Earth that otherwise knows nothing of aliens) then he doesn't get a Negative Rep, but yes, he should get a DF for being a singular alien amid a sea of humans. In a setting like Terran Empire, he doesn't get the DF, since the galaxy is full of humanoid races, many of which are just as ugly as he is. It also depends on how well know the race is in the setting. In some settings they can hide with no problem, on others, they're going to be know about. But then, their tactics of hunting sentients for sport many end up doing them in, in some settings, because they may be tough, but there are alien races out there that could eradicate them with ease if they wanted. So part of this depends on the setting you want to use them in.

 

Mixing real world cultures with Hollywood side cultures? I am not sure what you are getting at? Billy was a Native American Shaman type and King Willy practiced African Voodoo and I am try to simulate a character from a movie by how it interacts with Hollywood equivalents of real cultures. Please note that both of the real world cultures have Native American shamans and Voodoo witch doctors that supposedly have insight into the "spirit world" . In the real world if a predator like species came to Earth I doubt that these type of people would have any more insight towards these aliens than anyone else, but in the Predaor movies they do and that is what I am trying to simulate. I am also extrapolating from 2 examples, that other shamanic type individuals would have the same reaction.

 

What I meant to type was "said cultures." In other words, Hollywood tends to go with tropes. Character is Native American? He must have some connection to nature. Is he Jamaican or Haitian? He must be connected to voodoo. Asian? He knows kung fu. And so on.

 

I'll also argue that nothing in the film Predator said or indicated that Billy was a "Native American Shaman type." Nothing. The closest was his totem bag he wore around his neck, and IIRC all warriors had one of those. As for his insight, I disagree that he had insight into the Predator itself, he simply had a strong connecting to the wilderness and nature (see the trope I mentioned above), which is why he was the team's tracker. Thus, when something alien enters the jungle, he can "feel" something is wrong, but he doesn't know what.

[wick]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

I definitely am not as well read as you Susano concerning the Hero system books and have glanced through only about a dozen or so characters. It just seems strange that something that should be inobvious is labled OIF and it does not follow what the 5th ed revised rule book says. Something that is Obvious does not even need a PER roll ...hmmnnn that spear might be the source of his HKA. Duh! In the movie it did take 3/4 of the movie and Dutch getting covered in mud for him to figure out that the Predator even had IR perception and probably a logical conclusion that it must be his helmet giving him enhanced sight (note to self make the IR inherent and not a focus.) As a player against the predator, the GM would have to describe Source of all powers that are Obvious(maybe for some powers not until they are used), just seems really strange especially for powers that have invisible power effects.

 

Movie Tropes: Definitely simulating the trope. You are right it is only an assumption that Billy is a shaman type. What really feeds the mystical connection is King Willy from Pred 2 who is definitely some kind of mystic/witch doctor type even throwing the bones to see the future. This second character really cements the mystical connection and lends strength to Billy also being at least mystically inclined if not a full blown Shaman. I am designing the Predator for play in a Champions game rather than Star Hero so characters that are mystical are in the world whereas in a Star Hero campaign there may not be any true mystical types in the Galaxy(depending on your campaign)

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

I definitely am not as well read as you Susano concerning the Hero system books and have glanced through only about a dozen or so characters. It just seems strange that something that should be inobvious is labled OIF and it does not follow what the 5th ed revised rule book says. Something that is Obvious does not even need a PER roll ...hmmnnn that spear might be the source of his HKA. Duh! In the movie it did take 3/4 of the movie and Dutch getting covered in mud for him to figure out that the Predator even had IR perception and probably a logical conclusion that it must be his helmet giving him enhanced sight (note to self make the IR inherent and not a focus.) As a player against the predator' date=' the GM would have to describe Source of all powers that are Obvious(maybe for some powers not until they are used), just seems really strange especially for powers that have invisible power effects. [/quote']

 

The issue is (IMO) not that the IR is obvious, but that the helmet is an obvious piece of gear. Thus, while the IR is a passive power, it becomes an OIF because it is part of a greater object that's rather obvious. And yes, this shows a flaw in the foci rules dealing with powers that have different levels of perceive-ability. However, 6e (and 5E) are also big on the common sense rule. Which means that even if the IR vision is OIF (helmet; -1/2), there's no reason for the GM to announce "He's using IR vision!" when it happens. So yes, the Predator wears an obvious helmet. That's it.

 

Movie Tropes: Definitely simulating the trope. You are right it is only an assumption that Billy is a shaman type. What really feeds the mystical connection is King Willy from Pred 2 who is definitely some kind of mystic/witch doctor type even throwing the bones to see the future. This second character really cements the mystical connection and lends strength to Billy also being at least mystically inclined if not a full blown Shaman. I am designing the Predator for play in a Champions game rather than Star Hero so characters that are mystical are in the world whereas in a Star Hero campaign there may not be any true mystical types in the Galaxy(depending on your campaign)

 

When I do an adaption I'm big on showing only what the movie shows. So, when I finally do my take on the Predator (and Dutch's team I am thinking), I'm only going to go with what the film shows and/or says. So yes, I'll give Billy Danger Sense because he looks to have it. But I'm not going to make any claims beyond that.

[wick]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Susano: Thanks for the insight. Rules as written for obvious/inobvious is to determine whether a power obviously comes from a Foci without a Perception test or use of some unusual detect. I gave a direct quote from the 5th ed revised book previously and it seems pretty clear to me, the obviousness describes the power being connected to the Foci and not how obvious is the Foci itself. whether your Foci is a big, red dunce Cap or a nondescript baseball cap is irrelevant. What is relevant is that your head gear has attached to it what any layman would describe as a cannon

 

But it seems that powers are generally given the greatest obvious/inobvious limitation based upon all the powers associated with the Focus based upon your reading and experience. I should probably read more entries to get a better idea about how the professionals build their characthers. For now I will leave it as separate powers with separate OAF/IAF limitations. I can always go back and change it later, but for right now it makes more sense to me. Please re-read the Focus limitation though and tell me if I am totally off base in regards to my interpretation of the "Rules as Written", without examples from other books.

 

I suggest that if we continue arguing the Point it should be in a different thread since this thread has veered well off topic.

 

As for the DF. I was building the Predator off of PRED 1, PRED 2, and most of AVP. Just using Pred 1, I agree Billy would have danger sense and perhaps an enrage nuff said. In context of Pred 2's voodoo priest King Willy it leans more towards a DF to mystics. AVP did not introduce any mystics to further confirm or refute the Mystics argument. What I wonder about as being strange is why theses types of people would have such a negative reaction to the predator at all...that is something never fully explained in the movies or any of the literature that I read. Maybe a more well read member can cite other encounters with mystics and shed some light on the issue.

[Susano]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

Susano: Thanks for the insight. Rules as written for obvious/inobvious is to determine whether a power obviously comes from a Foci without a Perception test or use of some unusual detect. I gave a direct quote from the 5th ed revised book previously and it seems pretty clear to me, the obviousness describes the power being connected to the Foci and not how obvious is the Foci itself. whether your Foci is a big, red dunce Cap or a nondescript baseball cap is irrelevant. What is relevant is that your head gear has attached to it what any layman would describe as a cannon

 

But it seems that powers are generally given the greatest obvious/inobvious limitation based upon all the powers associated with the Focus based upon your reading and experience. I should probably read more entries to get a better idea about how the professionals build their characthers. For now I will leave it as separate powers with separate OAF/IAF limitations. I can always go back and change it later, but for right now it makes more sense to me. Please re-read the Focus limitation though and tell me if I am totally off base in regards to my interpretation of the "Rules as Written", without examples from other books.

 

Looking at the Focus rules in 6E shows that yes... technically the armor part is an OIF and things like Universal Translator and IR vision are IIF. However, as I said, in examples of characters with full suits of powered armor, everything has been bought with a flat OIF. Hardpoint, the power armor hero from 6E2 is the most current example.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

As for the DF. I was building the Predator off of PRED 1' date=' PRED 2, and most of AVP. Just using Pred 1, I agree Billy would have danger sense and perhaps an enrage nuff said. In context of Pred 2's voodoo priest King Willy it leans more towards a DF to mystics. AVP did not introduce any mystics to further confirm or refute the Mystics argument. What I wonder about as being strange is why theses types of people would have such a negative reaction to the predator at all...that is something never fully explained in the movies or any of the literature that I read. Maybe a more well read member can cite other encounters with mystics and shed some light on the issue.[/quote']

All that means is that the Voodoo priest has Danger Sense, probably with a mystical SFX, not that the Predator has a Mystical Distinguishing Feature.

 

EDIT: As to why they would have such a strong reaction. It's an utterly alien creature who's sole purpose in being there is to kill members of your species. I can't imagine anyone who could sense it not having a very negative reaction.

[wick]

Re: Predator: rough draft. Any comments?

 

All that means is that the Voodoo priest has Danger Sense, probably with a mystical SFX, not that the Predator has a Mystical Distinguishing Feature.

 

EDIT: As to why they would have such a strong reaction. It's an utterly alien creature who's sole purpose in being there is to kill members of your species. I can't imagine anyone who could sense it not having a very negative reaction.

 

Danger sense is pretty generalized, why would this one danger leap out. In other words, Billy's danger sense is probably going on and off all the time while in a war zone and he is pretty cool with it, but all of a sudden his danger sense goes off and he is scared, which by the way, is a emotion that his team mates believe Billy never feels or shows. If it is soley "Danger Sense" why not have the same reaction to the Guerilla fighters or on any of the other, previous, dangerous mission that the Commando team has went on? Can you imagine Spiderman (or name you favorite Danger sense character) having the same kind of reaction? Even a 25 point danger sense is only going to tell him there is danger in his general area normally. You could buy it with Discrimatory; analyze but that would have allowed Billy to tell them team precisely what was threatening them.

 

And I suppose both characters had an enrage or other psych lim that made them challenge the Predator to a mono a mono sword fight despite having many other, rational options available?

 

To use your own words: " ...have a strong reaction. It's an utterly alien creature..." Sounds like a DF to me. It is not like either character has never had people try to kill them but you are right this is an alien. So you would expect these same characters to react the same way against Greys (the aliens from popular UFO mythology) that may be trying to kill them? Or pretty much any Alien race that just happens to be hunting them? I can't imagine these guys going all highlander on other ETs, instead of just shooting them or whatever.

 

I think that their reaction and "Danger Sense" reaction were pretty singular to this particular threat. Which would mean that this creature has something that makes it distinctive from other similiar threats. Hence the DF.