BioFix - We're here to help!

[Utech]

Here's a random thought. I'd love to hear some HEROdom ideas on how it might play out.

 

The world is as we know it today.

 

Tomorrow, a small bio-tech firm called BioFix creates two new products.

 

1. OxyGen is a bacterium built from the genes up to ingest carbon dioxide and excrete oxygen. It is very happy to live inside human bodies. Someone "infected" with OxyGen will have little or no need to breathe under normal circumstances.
   
2. EnerGen is a bacterium built from the genes up ingest lactic acid and excrete ATP. It is very happy to live inside human bodies. Someone "infected" with EnerGen will find that their muscles do not ache under normal amounts of exercise.
   

Given that this is the Champions board, I'm looking for Champions-type responses here. What do you think might happen?

Does the lead scientist take the bacteria and keep it for himself? Does the company make a fortune selling to the highest bidders? Does it all go to the military? Does everybody get it as the bacteria multiply and spread around the world? Does this lead to superheroes and -villains? How? Why?

 

I breathlessly and tirelessly await your replies...

[Black Ops]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

Sounds mostly like a FX then anything else.

An explanation for LS and Reduced END cost nothing more.

Sorry.

[Utech]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

Sounds mostly like a FX then anything else.

An explanation for LS and Reduced END cost nothing more.

Sorry.

Sorry if this was unclear, but I'm not interested in how to build this. That's easy. I'm gathering thoughts about what might happen in (and to) the world if these things were created.

[Chimera 12]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

Sorry if this was unclear' date=' but I'm not interested in how to build this. That's easy. I'm gathering thoughts about what might happen in (and to) the world if these things were created.[/quote']

 

Depends mainly on two things, I think: One, how thoroughly have these bacteria be tested and shown to be safe for human consumption without adverse long-term side effects? And two, how high is the risk of 'carriers' inadvertantly infecting others?

 

If this stuff is only experimental, highly infectious, and gets out of the lab, expect it to be treated as basically another epidemic no matter what BioFix claims.

 

If it's shown to be largely (or even, never mind realism, perfectly) safe but still highly infectious, the law would still take a dim view on the notion of carriers infecting others without consent. Expect BioFix 'customers' to be required to identify themselves as such and dress and act to minimize exposure.

 

If it's experimental but there is no great risk of passing it on, some people will jump on the new trend as they always do. If the bacteria turn out to be unsafe immediately, expect some tragedies and a bunch of lawsuits. If they don't, but are eventually revealed to do something nasty to their hosts in the long run (cause cancer, render them sterile, whatever), the backlash will simply happen then. And if they turn out to simply work exactly as advertised, we naturally transition to the next possibility.

 

If the bacteria have been thoroughly tested, shown to be safe, and there aren't any great issues with inadvertantly infecting anybody else (this may require them to be 'tailored' to their specific host), then they will inevitably catch on. As one side effect of this, one might expect mankind to take more to the oceans in the long run -- if you don't need to breathe underwater and swimming doesn't tire you out, that will open quite a bit of new territory for exploration, cultivation, and maybe even colonization.

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

Expect to take "Watched by the CDC/USAMRIID" on your character sheets...

[dmjalund]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

The bacteria (at least the first type) needs some power source akin to photosynthesis. But photosynthesis requires light - so some other power source.

 

which reminds me of the old joke

Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend

inside of a dog, its too dark to read.

[BlueCloud2k2]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

As far as contagion goes, you could go with "each bacterium is genetically taylored to its host to ensure true symbiosis and prevent infecting those who've not paid for itl"

 

The bacteria (at least the first type) needs some power source akin to photosynthesis. But photosynthesis requires light - so some other power source.

 

Concur.

 

I think a broadcast energy powered nanite would be a bit more believable. The individual who pays for the treatments gets injected with whichever nanie he purchases, and pays for a small power-transmiter that he wears on his belt that powers the nanites. The nanites are programed to self replicate from available waste materials in the bloodstream and cannibalize broken nanites to maintain sufficient numbers to operate.

 

OxyNites have two functions attach themselves to the red blood cells and attach themselves to the kidneys. When O2 is exchanged for CO2, they crack the molycule and retain the carbon atoms on a small chain. When they reach the kidneys, they pass the chain off to their brothers and the kidney nanites dump the waste out through the urine. However, due to safety reasons, all this does is assist in the natural oxygenation of the blood. It does not allow someone to exist completely without fresh oxygen. It would allow someone in high-altitude regions get the needed amount of O2 or reduce the need for fresh O2 for someone on a spaceship or submarine.

 

In Gaming terms this would be written up as CON or END with continuous Charges.

 

EnerNites build up in the muscles to turn Lactic Acid into ATP. Due to safety measures (for the patient) the limit for Lactic Acid-ATP conversion is up to 50%. This would increase the endurence of anyone treated with it (athletes, soldiers, etc)

 

As far as repercussions go, the only people who will be able to afford will the the military and professional athletes. The military is going to want this first: anything that improves the endurences and capabilities of soldiers in the field is going to be a must. I'd imagine they would go so far as to have the power transmitter embedded in the soldiers. Especially OxyNites for submarie crews. NASA will also want astronauts treated with OxyNites.

 

And it just smacks of abuse for athletes. People were freaking out over steroid use, now they'll be freaking out over Nanite enhancement.

 

After the military and pro athletes, will be the guys who climb mountains (like Everest). They'll be able to pack less O2 cylinders (if at all).

 

Like all new technology, it will be 10-20 years before Joe Shmoe from Cokomo ever sees the upgrades.

 

Just my $0.02

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

A more realistic energy source would be the host, and more conducive to interesting side effects, such as having to eat more to maintain adequate body mass. If the bacteria are basically dormant unless the host is holding a breath or generating a lot of lactic acid, this would probably not be noticeable. If you're trying to live underwater, on the other hand, you'd need to consume a lot of calories to fuel the process.

[Markdoc]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

If this stuff is only experimental' date=' highly infectious, and gets out of the lab, expect it to be treated as basically another epidemic no matter what BioFix claims.[/quote']

 

This is definately correct

 

If it's shown to be largely (or even, never mind realism, perfectly) safe but still highly infectious, the law would still take a dim view on the notion of carriers infecting others without consent. Expect BioFix 'customers' to be required to identify themselves as such and dress and act to minimize exposure.

 

This, however, is not. There are a few live vaccines in use today that are infectious and can be (and sometimes are) passed from the vacinee to other people. However, they have also been tested and shown to be safe, so the reaction of the authorities is "Who cares?". Transmission is not tracked. This is a little different, since it's not a vaccine, but if it's been passed as safe to give to people, then it's ... well, safe to give to people. I doubt that any restrictions would be put in place, or - if mooted - survive legal challenge. Hell, it's hard enough to restrict the movement of people who have dangerous infectious conditions.

 

As far as restricting infection, a far simpler way than tailoring them to their host genetically (probably going to be far too expensive, and also unlikely to be legally permitted since each treatment would be a new modified organism) would simply to engineer them to require a supplement - which the host can then take. People not taking the supplement, would not have it in circulation and would be immune to infection, people who had the bacteria could get rid of them by stopping taking the supplement, and the requirement would also mean the bacteria would die if released into the wild. As a further bonus, BioFix would get an extra revenue stream, selling supplement. Not science fiction: this concept is already used for engineered organisms.

 

Cheers, Mark

[Chimera 12]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

This' date=' however, is not. There are a few live vaccines in use today that are infectious and can be (and sometimes are) passed from the vacinee to other people. However, they have also been tested and shown to be safe, so the reaction of the authorities is "Who cares?". Transmission is not tracked. This is a little different, since it's not a vaccine, but if it's been passed as safe to give to people, then it's ... well, safe to give to people. I doubt that any restrictions would be put in place, or - if mooted - survive legal challenge. Hell, it's hard enough to restrict the movement of people who have [b']dangerous[/b] infectious conditions.

Well, the emphasis was supposed to be on highly infectious. As in "an OxyGen carrier could go shopping and end up casually infecting a significant percentage of the people he encounters on the trip, whether they actually want OxyGen in their bodies themselves or not". I'd imagine that even if the stuff was demonstrated to be perfectly harmless (and let's face it, that trick never works anyway), some basic rules to reduce the frequency of that sort of scenario occurring in practice would be laid down.

 

If it's just "well, you might catch something from spending hours in intimate contact with a carrier", then that's a different issue altogether.

[Markdoc]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

Well' date=' the emphasis was supposed to be on [i']highly[/i] infectious. As in "an OxyGen carrier could go shopping and end up casually infecting a significant percentage of the people he encounters on the trip, whether they actually want OxyGen in their bodies themselves or not". I'd imagine that even if the stuff was demonstrated to be perfectly harmless (and let's face it, that trick never works anyway), some basic rules to reduce the frequency of that sort of scenario occurring in practice would be laid down.

 

But what? Restrict their movement? Unlawful without a compelling public safety issue. Require them to wear protective suits? Under what statute? The 'Flu is highly infectious - and yet we have no laws that would allow us to restrict the movement or require the wearing of protective gear for people with 'Flu, without declaring a public emergency and/or martial law. If the organism is ruled harmless, I can guarantee attempts to apply legal restraints to the people carrying it would fold like tissue paper at the first legal challenge. There is no legal right "to not get infected". To apply some sort of restrictions, you'd need to posit major changes in law enforcement, new laws and also create a new monitoring agency: the CDC has neither the interest, the personnel, the budget or the infrastructure to do something like this, and I doubt the regular cops would be much interested.

 

cheers, Mark

[Utech]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

The bacteria (at least the first type) needs some power source akin to photosynthesis. But photosynthesis requires light - so some other power source.

 

We've all got plenty of bacteria living inside us all the time. Photosynthesis is not occurring there. (Least-wise not in me...)

[Utech]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

OK, I really like some of the ideas people have posited so far. Many thanks.

 

Any thoughts on this sort of thing as an origin story for a hero or villain? What might it lead to?

 

Any thoughts on this sort of thing as a military program? What might it lead to? (I've seen a couple of ideas along these lines, but wonder if they might be expanded upon.)

 

Thanks, again, for the interest and the interesting posts.

[dmjalund]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

We've all got plenty of bacteria living inside us all the time. Photosynthesis is not occurring there. (Least-wise not in me...)

Im talking aboout the bacteria that converts Carbon dioxide to oxygen

[Utech]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

Im talking aboout the bacteria that converts Carbon dioxide to oxygen

I made it up. It works like other bacteria. That is to say, it most certainly does not need to photosynthesize. Can we move beyond this now?

[Chimera 12]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

But what? Restrict their movement? Unlawful without a compelling public safety issue. Require them to wear protective suits? Under what statute? The 'Flu is highly infectious - and yet we have no laws that would allow us to restrict the movement or require the wearing of protective gear for people with 'Flu' date=' without declaring a public emergency and/or martial law[/b']. If the organism is ruled harmless, I can guarantee attempts to apply legal restraints to the people carrying it would fold like tissue paper at the first legal challenge. There is no legal right "to not get infected". To apply some sort of restrictions, you'd need to posit major changes in law enforcement, new laws and also create a new monitoring agency: the CDC has neither the interest, the personnel, the budget or the infrastructure to do something like this, and I doubt the regular cops would be much interested.

 

cheers, Mark

There's one key difference here, though: the flu occurs naturally. It has no designer that the law could plausibly hold responsible (you can't very well drag Mother Nature into court unless you have a fairly unusual campaign setting) and few if any people lining up to catch it deliberately. It's just something we have to live with.

 

Not so with these designer bacteria, obviously. The law certainly can touch BioFix and their customers, all of whom (presumably) chose to become carriers on purpose.

[McCoy]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

I made it up. It works like other bacteria. That is to say' date=' it most certainly does not need to photosynthesize. Can we move beyond this now?[/quote']

So the question is "What would happen if we ignore the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology without so much as technobabble?"

[Utech]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

So the question is "What would happen if we ignore the laws of physics' date=' chemistry, and biology without so much as technobabble?"[/quote']

(For the love of Pete.) If Champions is not all about ignoring the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology in the name of telling a good story, I don't know what it is.

 

But if you simply cannot participate without technobabble, here you go:

These modified Thiobacillus ferrooxidans and/or Thiobacillus thiooxidans bacteria obtain the carbon they need to sustain their survival and growth from carbon dioxide. They obtain energy by oxidizing iron in the blood.

or, if you prefer:

These modified Thiothrix bacteria oxydize hydrogen sulfide in the blood.

 

Those are real bacteria that live quite well without any photosynthesis at all -- apparently ignoring the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology. Google away.

[casualplayer]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

I would think the tandem of the bacteria would make the perfect Navy SEAL. It would also make it possible to colonize and farm the seafloor.

 

I'm not sure what effect not getting tired would have on the need for sleep, but you could go any number of ways. Bacteria also has a nasty tendency to evolve to its environment and migrate to environments you least expect. What if this got into the food chain? Could a dolphin survive on land with this in its system?

 

Not to pick nits but the oxygenerating bacteria would likely have to live somewhere other than the digestive system, for the oxygen to get to the lungs. Maybe it's a throat culture?

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

Here's a random thought. I'd love to hear some HEROdom ideas on how it might play out.

 

The world is as we know it today.

 

Tomorrow, a small bio-tech firm called BioFix creates two new products.

 

1. OxyGen is a bacterium built from the genes up to ingest carbon dioxide and excrete oxygen. It is very happy to live inside human bodies. Someone "infected" with OxyGen will have little or no need to breathe under normal circumstances.
   
2. EnerGen is a bacterium built from the genes up ingest lactic acid and excrete ATP. It is very happy to live inside human bodies. Someone "infected" with EnerGen will find that their muscles do not ache under normal amounts of exercise.
   

Given that this is the Champions board, I'm looking for Champions-type responses here. What do you think might happen?

Does the lead scientist take the bacteria and keep it for himself? Does the company make a fortune selling to the highest bidders? Does it all go to the military? Does everybody get it as the bacteria multiply and spread around the world? Does this lead to superheroes and -villains? How? Why?

 

I breathlessly and tirelessly await your replies...

 

A few ideas, just for fun.

 

(Taking a cue from genetically modified seed companies and/or the music industry): The bacteria spread to others, but not in a straightforward manner, so this can't be easily proven. Then BioFix begins suing people who have "stolen" their product. And with the success of their products, they have big $$$ to hire lawyers.

 

After OxyGen and/or EnerGen becomes commonplace in the population, a villain designs a quick-spreading bacteria that piggy-backs onto BioFix's product (he could even be the real brains behind BioFix). This second bacteria could do anything to the hosts that the GM desires -- mind control / death / turn them into zombies / make them think Will Ferrell is funny.

 

The OxyGen bacteria mutates to consume carbon in *other* forms. What will happen when coal and diamonds start disappearing? Or when the mutate removes all the carbon from a building's steel framework? Heck, 18% of our bodies are composed of carbon. That could be messy... And if BioFix found out about the mutation, but decided to cover it up instead of containing and counteracting it...

[wick]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

Reminds me of the engineered cure for Cancer in the Movie "I am legend". just look how that turned out. Of course the idea of a human engineered bacteria going nuts and causing a harmfull epidemic is kind of far fetched. Human domesticated plants and animals actually compete less effectively than their natural competitors in the wild. This would also likely be the case for engineered bacteria, without human care and maintenance it woulc not be able to compete against the real thing.

 

On another note: What about people who have a fundamental belief against being modified artificially. What about their rights? The Amish might take offense about having modded bacteria in their bodies. Also these bacteria will difinitely have more visible effects.

 

Or how about the effects on someone who is immuno suppressed. Aids patients can get illnesses from things that would be harmless in an immuno healthy person? Maybe the bacteria would go out of control and have unforseen side effects.

[Escafarc]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

A few ideas, just for fun.

 

(Taking a cue from genetically modified seed companies and/or the music industry): The bacteria spread to others, but not in a straightforward manner, so this can't be easily proven. Then BioFix begins suing people who have "stolen" their product. And with the success of their products, they have big $$$ to hire lawyers.

 

After OxyGen and/or EnerGen becomes commonplace in the population, a villain designs a quick-spreading bacteria that piggy-backs onto BioFix's product (he could even be the real brains behind BioFix). This second bacteria could do anything to the hosts that the GM desires -- mind control / death / turn them into zombies / make them think Will Ferrell is funny.

 

The OxyGen bacteria mutates to consume carbon in *other* forms. What will happen when coal and diamonds start disappearing? Or when the mutate removes all the carbon from a building's steel framework? Heck, 18% of our bodies are composed of carbon. That could be messy... And if BioFix found out about the mutation, but decided to cover it up instead of containing and counteracting it...

 

Speaking of other Carbons. How about Hydrocarbons? There is a book Ill Wind http://www.booksamillion.com/product/9780765357762?id=4717928194455 where a bacteria disigned to clean-up oil spills gets loose. I can't recomined this book as I found it jump the tracks about a quarter of the way in and the ending was extremly lacking. That said the discripion of the colapse of tech was interesting.

[McCoy]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

(For the love of Pete.) If Champions is not all about ignoring the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology in the name of telling a good story, I don't know what it is.

 

But if you simply cannot participate without technobabble, here you go:

These modified Thiobacillus ferrooxidans and/or Thiobacillus thiooxidans bacteria obtain the carbon they need to sustain their survival and growth from carbon dioxide. They obtain energy by oxidizing iron in the blood.

or, if you prefer:

These modified Thiothrix bacteria oxydize hydrogen sulfide in the blood.

 

Those are real bacteria that live quite well without any photosynthesis at all -- apparently ignoring the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology. Google away.

Don't need to Google Thiobacillus, do have a degree in biology. They live quite well without practicing photosynthesis by consuming oxygen, not releasing it. Your thermodynamic arrow is pointing the wrong way.

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

Don't need to Google Thiobacillus' date=' do have a degree in biology. They live quite well without practicing photosynthesis by [i']consuming[/i] oxygen, not releasing it. Your thermodynamic arrow is pointing the wrong way.

 

...Sounds like the sort of mistake a top-secret research lab would make, just before things go all Michael Bey... and the head scientist is mutated beyond all recognition...

[Utech]

Re: BioFix - We're here to help!

 

Don't need to Google Thiobacillus' date=' do have a degree in biology. They live quite well without practicing photosynthesis by [i']consuming[/i] oxygen, not releasing it. Your thermodynamic arrow is pointing the wrong way.

They create oxygen and consume it. Is it impossible to imagine that they might be modified to create more oxygen than they need to consume? The leftover oxygen goes to the host. Honestly, have a little imagination here, OK? If this is all too much for you, please leave the thread alone.