Why can't an END reserve Cost End

[RockBeatsScisso]

 

Hi There I wanted to know if anyone could explain to me why an END Reserve can't Cost End.

 

I am making a gadget charector with armor that has an END reserve. I would like for there to be reasons that the character would not have his Reserve Active all the time even though he wears it (OIF Belt with Cross Hatches). It is about 40 active points.

 

My thought process was I will make the END Reserve Cost Personal End to use. He has a SPD 4 so that's 12 ENd a turn and his REC is only 8 so he could not afford to keep it active as he would eventually tire. I thought this was a neat way to get what I wanted until I saw the rule Cannot HAve Cost ENd.

 

I am not sure what the issue is with this restriction. Was it meant to mean cannot cost end from the END Reserve, that I can understand

[Steve Long]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Given the phrasing of your question I think you wanted to start a discussion, so I've moved this to the Discussion board.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Hmm. I believe it was allowed in 5E, but the ruling was a bit odd: every time you used End to activate the Reserve, you basically go the full End amount, even if you had previously used some of it and it hadn't had time to Recover. Or am I thinking about Charges?

 

Anyway, I think it's reasonable, but I'd consider the End and Rec of the Reserve separately. If you have to pay End for the End part, you can only access (use) the Reserve's End in Phases when you pay the personal End for it. If you have to pay End for the Rec, it only Recovers when you've paid personal End for the Rec every Phase in the Turn (or if you've paid for it in some but not all of your Phases, I'd give you the same fraction of Rec as the fraction of Phases you activated the Rec). That's how I'd handle it anyway.

[Ice9]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Wait, maybe I'm missing something, but how is this different from the powers that would draw on the reserve costing END directly? Would you be paying a flat amount of END, no matter how much of the reserve you used, or something?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Here's a couple of example options to make an Endurance Reserve that costs END:

 

18 Bio-Battery Endurance Reserve (50 END, 10 REC) Reserve: ; REC: ; Personal REC (This Limitation represents and END Reserve which can only recover if the character can recover. If the character is knocked out, cannot breathe, or otherwise not take a Recovery himself, the END Reserve cannot recover either.; -½)

33 Bio-Blast 10d6; Limited Power Double Endurance Cost (see 6e1, page 206; -½) 5

 

We really need to know what sfx you are trying to simulate to give a better answer.

 

HM

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Well, just expressing it as "END Reserve that costs END" sounds illogical in itself -- like a battery that's constantly draining even when it's not being used for anything else. However, the situation you describe seems like a reasonable exception that doesn't abuse the rules. As Steve Long writes throughout the rulebook, the default rules are subject to GM's discretion. If something a player wants to do would violate the RAW, but the GM agrees it's logical and balanced, violate away! Heck, I've seen a number of published write-ups where Steve bends his own rules to get the effect he wants.

[RockBeatsScisso]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Thanks

[RockBeatsScisso]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Given the phrasing of your question I think you wanted to start a discussion' date=' so I've moved this to the Discussion board.[/quote']

 

Steve

 

Moving the quote is fine but what I really wanted was the thought process as to why this rule was put in the book. Assuming that it is not a typo or error then I think someone had a rationale for why this should be banned. I woud like to know what that rationale is becasue as I have stated I don't understand it and I think I might be missing something as I am inclined to allow it so long as it does not feed from the end battery.

[RockBeatsScisso]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Well' date=' just expressing it as "END Reserve that costs END" sounds illogical in itself -- like a battery that's constantly draining even when it's not being used for anything else. However, the situation you describe seems like a reasonable exception that doesn't abuse the rules. As Steve Long writes throughout the rulebook, the default rules are subject to GM's discretion. If something a player wants to do would violate the RAW, but the GM agrees it's logical and balanced, violate away! Heck, I've seen a number of published write-ups where Steve bends his own rules to get the effect he wants. [/quote']

 

Yea I think you are correct but I wanted to understand of their was any cheesiness factor that I was missing which prompted the reason for the ban to begin with. Thanks

[Greywind]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Steve has a general stance that he doesn't discuss game design philosophy.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Yep. That just leads to unending arguments and expressions of opinion that can become heated. We have enough of those already among the fans posting here, without the Line Developer using up his valuable game-book-writing time on them.

[Spence]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

OK, I have read the reasoning in RockBeatsScisso's post several times and don't see what he is trying to do. If he wants the reserve to lose end every phase the PC moves he could just slap a custom limitation on it.

 

But I really don't understand what he is going for. End Reserve as far as I can recall is specifically to simulate a power source other than personal end.

 

I guess I am just not getting the question.

[Escafarc]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

You could always use the Side Effect Limitation, the Side Effect being a END Drain.

[Palmate]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Based on the initial question that began this thread, I would think there may be other ways to limit your player, or just talk to him/her about your concerns. Why don't you want him to have the END Reserve always available? Do you feel it is unbalanced? Perhaps build the suit as a MP and have it all run off the END reserve, include movement etc. that way he will be running down the reserve pretty regularly. Just an idea, take it for what it cost you. Personally a MP is the only way to build a power suit - but that’s just me.

P

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

OK' date=' I have read the reasoning in RockBeatsScisso's post several times and don't see what he is trying to do. If he wants the reserve to lose end every phase the PC moves he could just slap a custom limitation on it.

 

But I really don't understand what he is going for. End Reserve as far as I can recall is specifically to simulate a power source other than personal end.

 

I guess I am just not getting the question.

He wants to pay for his End Reserve out of Personal End

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

He wants to pay for his End Reserve out of Personal End

Which kind of defeats the primary purpose of an End Reserve (not going to 0 END when a character is knocked out).

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Which kind of defeats the primary purpose of an End Reserve (not going to 0 END when a character is knocked out).

If it fits the SFX...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

If it fits the SFX...

 

What sfx though?

 

I cited the 2 existing END Reserve Limitations in my earlier response.

What sfx would not be covered by 1 of those Limitations?

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

What sfx though?

 

I cited the 2 existing END Reserve Limitations in my earlier response.

What sfx would not be covered by 1 of those Limitations?

...Gaining more energy at the expense of rapidly draining energy.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

...Gaining more energy at the expense of rapidly draining energy.

 

But then you end up paying more points for what is essentially a Limitation.

Plus, for powers to be able to draw upon Personal END & END Reserve they need to have an additional Advantage.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

But then you end up paying more points for what is essentially a Limitation.

Plus, for powers to be able to draw upon Personal END & END Reserve they need to have an additional Advantage.

...An AID to END with Costs Endurance: Every Phase would probably work best for the OP's request.

 

Edit: Aid END 5d6, Constant (+1/2) (45 Active Points); Only to Aid Self (-1), Costs Endurance (to maintain; -1/2), 18 Real Points

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

What about a Succor/Boost to the END reserve? The character spends personal END every phase to enhance the END reserve.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Except that the Aid is only being used to get around an unnecessary system restriction, and makes things more clunky. If you're going to allow that, might as well just allow the original idea of the End Reserve costing personal End to access.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Why can't an END reserve Cost End

 

Except that the Aid is only being used to get around an unnecessary system restriction' date=' and makes things more clunky. If you're going to allow that, might as well just allow the original idea of the End Reserve costing personal End to access.[/quote']

Good point.