Vehicles with Vehicles?

[Mathew]

I was recently converting some Robotech characters and i came across the Robotech Masters bioroids. They are aliens who pilot robot suits, and the robot suits pilot hover platforms. Should the pilot buy two vehicles, or should the robot suit vehicle buy it's own vehicle, the hover platform?

 

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Officially, the robots and hover platforms would be bought separately.

 

I have certain criteria for my own settings wherein a vehicle can buy a vehicle, and this appears to meet one set: the secondary vehicle is useless without the primary one (that is, the hover platform can only be operated via a giant robot).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Alternately, add the movement and extra Size (for carrying capacity and UBO-like effect) of the platform into the first (robot) vehicle, but give it a Focus.

[Mathew]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Perhaps I will just make the suit the vehicle, and the hovercraft will just be a really big focus for it's flight. I know it's boarderline. Would the Green Goblin buy a his Goblin Glider as a vehicle, or as a focus on his Flight power? Same thing for these guys.

 

There are scenes in Robotech where another mech takes a Bioroid's hover platform. Perhaps he just grabbed the focus for the flight power?

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Personally, I would never allow a vehicle to have a vehicle because of the exponential point discount. Spend 50 points for a 250 point vehicle, then spend 50 points of the vehicle's 250 points... you get two 250 point vehicles for 50 points.

 

Additionally, the math is further skewed - for 50 points in the above example you get one 200 point vehicle and one 250 point vehicle. For 55 points, you get 2x 250 point vehicles.

 

Bases I will sometimes allow to have vehicles, followers, etc. - but only when I'm kind of "giving" the player's a base, not when a player is building a character and buying the base on their own.

[whitekeys]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Agreed with Kraven Kor.

 

You wouldn't mind putting up your sheet for these Bioroids, would you? I was trying to come up with a similar contraption that are basically 'Mechs, from the BattleMech games. Somethings I was iffy on, like OCV, turning modes, etc.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

...the math is further skewed - for 50 points in the above example you get one 200 point vehicle and one 250 point vehicle. For 55 points' date=' you get 2x 250 point vehicles.[/quote']

 

Erm...you do realize that you can have two 250-point Vehicles for 55 points? In fact, you can double the number of Vehicles you have for 5 Character Points, as many times as you like, and the Vehicles do not have to be identical.

 

A character can have two times as many Bases or Vehicles for +5 points (i.e.' date=' twice as many Vehicles or Bases for +5 points; four times as many for +10 points, and so on). These additional Bases or Vehicles do not have to be identical to the first Base or Vehicle, they just have to be built on the same number of Character Points (or less).[/quote']

 

Of course, it's a strange circumstance to be piloting one of the vehicles from the other vehicle (and be able to use both of them at the same time), so that might be a little different....

[Fryguy]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

I agree with Prestidigitator. I recently did a rewrite of a tech hero who has car, plane, and boat (275 pts each). Under the current rules I paid the 55 points for the first and kicked in 8 more for the extra two vehicles (the GM let me have the boat for 3 points and I plan on spending my next 2 points to make a space-worthy craft).

[Mathew]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Agreed with Kraven Kor.

 

You wouldn't mind putting up your sheet for these Bioroids, would you? I was trying to come up with a similar contraption that are basically 'Mechs, from the BattleMech games. Somethings I was iffy on, like OCV, turning modes, etc.

 

Well, what I had so far was simply the character done without any vehicles - I converted the third stage clone pilot's stats from the Palladium RPG, which ended up making mildly skilled normal. Then I put the armor and the hovercraft into equipment. The entire thing ended up being a 250 point character!

 

Note, this isn't the stats for Zor Prime, it's a typical third stage red Bioroid pilot with average stats, and 6th level in skills.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~mathewignash/PDFs/BIOROIDR.pdf

[Ice9]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

While you could theoretically get pretty crazy with "nested" vehicles:

Pilot (50p normal) has 150p Control Pod. Control Pod has 500p Mech. Mech has 2000p Space Extension Frame.

 

I don't think they're inherently problematic. As mentioned, spending 55p for two 250p vehicles is something you can already do.

For this particular example, I don't know if it's necessary, but I would definitely use them for something like a heavy star cruiser that had a squadron of fighter craft docked in it.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

...I would definitely use them for something like a heavy star cruiser that had a squadron of fighter craft docked in it.

That is one case where I definitely would have the Vehicles bought separately. The fighter craft can be used without the heavy star cruiser, and vice versa.

 

Vehicles within Vehicles should be reserved for cases where if you lose one, you cannot use the other. The prime example of this would be the elevators in an ocean liner. Sink the liner, and the elevators are gone too. The original example in this thread can be argued for: if the pilot's robot suit is disabled, the hover platform can't be used.

 

If the hover platform can be used without the robot suit, then they definitely should be bought as separate Vehicles.

[dmjalund]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

That is one case where I definitely would have the Vehicles bought separately. The fighter craft can be used without the heavy star cruiser, and vice versa.

 

Vehicles within Vehicles should be reserved for cases where if you lose one, you cannot use the other. The prime example of this would be the elevators in an ocean liner. Sink the liner, and the elevators are gone too. The original example in this thread can be argued for: if the pilot's robot suit is disabled, the hover platform can't be used.

 

If the hover platform can be used without the robot suit, then they definitely should be bought as separate Vehicles.

But if all the repair and maintenance facilities for the squadron are on the star cruiser?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

But if all the repair and maintenance facilities for the squadron are on the star cruiser?

Is that one star cruiser the only repair and maintenance facility for the squadron that exists, anywhere? Does the squadron stop functioning altogether, immediately, if the star cruiser is destroyed? In short, if the star cruiser is destroyed while the squadron is not on board, what happens to the squadron? That's what makes the difference.

[AirborneRob]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Im no expert but wouldn't you just make the platform a focus for flying to keep it simple and fairly accurate?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Im no expert but wouldn't you just make the platform a focus for flying to keep it simple and fairly accurate?

In this case, since that option was first brought up I've thought it made the most sense to me.

[Mathew]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

On a related note to this thread, would it be okay to just buy multipliers of vehicles based on the highest price rather than buy multiple vehicles separately? For instance if I had a villain with a legion of followers and a fleet of vans and helicopters, should i buy 64 100 point helicopters and 64 50 point vans, or can I just buy 128 100 point or less " helicopters and vans"? The former would cost 95 points the later 55 points.

 

Would the same math work for bases and followers? For instance Master Control has separate follower costs for Black Guard and Silver Guard? Would it be allowed to buy them based on the total number of followers and their highest point cost as one single purchase?

[Escafarc]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

On a related note to this thread' date=' would it be okay to just buy multipliers of vehicles based on the highest price rather than buy multiple vehicles separately? For instance if I had a villain with a legion of followers and a fleet of vans and helicopters, should i buy 64 100 point helicopters and 64 50 point vans, or can I just buy 128 100 point or less " helicopters and vans"? The former would cost 95 points the later 55 points.[/quote']

My understanding(and it could be faulty:D) you pay for the most exspensive one and then apply the multiplier so the 55 points.

[Mathew]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

How about a vehicle with followers, like the Andromeda with it's androids?

[Escafarc]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Followers are normally paid for separately from Vehicles.

[Mathew]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Yes, but can you buy a vehicle that has a follower of it's own.

[Escafarc]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

All the examples in the books list the cost for Followers(mostly AI/Computers) separately.

[JmOz]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

I use (my) summon as my guidelines in:

 

Basically depending on how much control the main vehicle has over the minor I apply an advantage from a +0 to +1 advantage

[Mathew]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

Can you multiply bases like you can vehicles? For instance get a 100 point base for 25 points, then x4 bases for 10 more points?

[Escafarc]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

I don't see why not.

[JmOz]

Re: Vehicles with Vehicles?

 

I've felt for along time that Vehicle, followers, & bases should be folded into one perk, that would allow the x2 for +5

 

So you could have

 

The Fox Sidekick

Fox Buttler

Fox mobile

and Foxcave

 

for +10