Steffen Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 I would like to build a power similar to the Telekinesis of Jedis which cannot be heard nor seen except for the hand gestures. As an Attack/Standard power Telekinesis is obvious to two sense groups, probably Sight and Hearing. I think the Jedi Telekinesis is invisible to the Hearing Group (+ 1/2) and because of the gestures inobvious to the Sight Group (+1/4). Is this correct? Now I change the concept a little and define one of the sense groups as Radio instead of Hearing. I visualize it influencing electric/electronic devices so acoustic noises are heard on nearby phones or radios and electronic displays flicker etc. Is this obvious or inobvious? Thank you for your comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis It sounds like you have pretty good handle on how it should work. I haven't tried to update a Jedi-like TK into 6e rules yet but here is link to a 5e 350 point Jedi build you might want to take a look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis I'd say the electronic interference is inobvious, unless TK causing such interference is common enough knowledge that TK is the first thing people associate such interference with when they encounter it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis What about the noise that always seems to accompany Jedi use of TK? Woooooooooom. In all seriousness though, I enjoy the image of electronic flickering in response to the power use. It has a nice visual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis Also gestures may be usefull, or has a Jedi ever shown the ability to use it with hands tied? If Yes, variable Advantage and Disadvantage may be a way to go (it can be strong but hearable, magescaled but cost concentration/endurance,...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis If you were to follow the fiction, you might have reduced OCV if gestures are not available. or no fine manipulation without gestures - or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis Some of the stronger uses of the Force, Like for Force Jump or Force Shove (High STR Telekinesis, only to shove) could easily be put into the same Mutlipower (together with your KA Lightsaber, deflection). Thier short time precognition could be simulated with a Overall Skill level or CSL's, OCV/DCV Bonus also put in the MP. Most of thier powers should cost at least half endurance to activate and maintain, and only rare should be Persistent/Uncontrolled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted April 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis The character is just a telekinetic, not a jedi. The player would like to have a fully invisible Telekinesis but as it's quite expensive so I'm trying to figure out a build that does not include any light or sound effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted April 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis I'd say the electronic interference is inobvious' date=' unless TK causing such interference is common enough knowledge that TK is the first thing people associate such interference with when they encounter it.[/quote'] Thanks, I also tend toward inobvious. In my campaign superpowers are unheard of so nobody will at first associate TK with electronic interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis Actually I think, that is what normal Telekinesis does already. That TK is Pervievable while in Use, may simply mean that you see and hear the floating object normaly and that anybody can see that the user is concentarting. The fact that Telekinesis is inherently indirect can actually mean that it has no percievable connection("path" for indirect) betwenn user and target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted April 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis It sounds like you have pretty good handle on how it should work. I haven't tried to update a Jedi-like TK into 6e rules yet but here is link to a 5e 350 point Jedi build you might want to take a look at. Thank you. That's interesting, you built it fully invisible with "gestures" as a limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis Is it really that odd that a power untraceable to the character would be expensive? He can just stand around like an innocent bystander while opponents take damage from thin air - that sounds like something which should be expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted April 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis That TK is Pervievable while in Use' date=' may simply mean that you see and hear the floating object normaly and that anybody can see that the user is concentarting.[/quote'] But this would mean that a TK punch is almost invisible (except for the effect on it's target and the concentrating user) while a Force Blast with the same effect on the target is clearly visible. In my opinion this can't be correct as both are Attack Powers and the rules clearly state that you need to buy IPE to conceal a Blast (6E1 338). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted April 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis Is it really that odd that a power untraceable to the character would be expensive? He can just stand around like an innocent bystander while opponents take damage from thin air - that sounds like something which should be expensive. No, it's not odd, it's absolutely fair. The problem is that IPE increases the Active Points so that the power is not very useful besides being completely invisible. I'm looking for a way to keep the special effect invisible to sight and hearing while not being completely invisible in game terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis No, it's not odd, it's absolutely fair. The problem is that IPE increases the Active Points so that the power is not very useful besides being completely invisible. I'm looking for a way to keep the special effect invisible to sight and hearing while not being completely invisible in game terms. Don't forget that an Invisible Attack is very difficult to Block/Deflect/Reflect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis But this would mean that a TK punch is almost invisible (except for the effect on it's target and the concentrating user) Sorry, misinterpreted the gun example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis No, it's not odd, it's absolutely fair. The problem is that IPE increases the Active Points so that the power is not very useful besides being completely invisible. I'm looking for a way to keep the special effect invisible to sight and hearing while not being completely invisible in game terms. You want a power that is invisible, without paying for it? Not within the rules. The only way to make it invisible to Sight/Heraing for free, would be to make it visible to equally common senses, thus defeating the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted April 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis You want a power that is invisible, without paying for it? Not within the rules. The only way to make it invisible to Sight/Heraing for free, would be to make it visible to equally common senses, thus defeating the point. Please read my initial post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis Please read my initial post. I did. Not within the rules, without buying IPE. The entire point of obvious is that normal people can perceive the use of the power. If you don't want that, buy IPE. If that's to expensive, no can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis Actually I think' date=' that is what normal Telekinesis does already. That TK is Pervievable while in Use, may simply mean that you see and hear the floating object normaly and that anybody can see that the user is concentarting. The fact that Telekinesis is inherently indirect can actually mean that it has no percievable connection("path" for indirect) betwenn user and target.[/quote'] Indirect has nothing to do with perception of the power. The visual example of unadvantaged Telekinesis is a Green Lantern's green-energy contruct that always has a link back to the ring. Invisible Telekinesis needs that advantage unless the character is for a psychic powers setting where everyone gets IPE on TK for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis Indirect has nothing to do with perception of the power. Already found out and already said it was uninformerd garbage: Sorry' date=' misinterpreted the gun example.[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steffen Posted April 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis I did. Not within the rules, without buying IPE. The entire point of obvious is that normal people can perceive the use of the power. If you don't want that, buy IPE. If that's to expensive, no can do. The initial question was not if IPE was necessary (it is) but what the value of the advantage for the given examples is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis +1. 6E1 338. Under "OBVIOUS POWERS" Even with example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis The initial question was not if IPE was necessary (it is) but what the value of the advantage for the given examples is. I'd think Invisible to Sight and Hearing would cover it, with Mental being the third sense group. I suppose one could theoretically just do Invisible to Sight with Touch and Mental being the other two groups, but that might be a little sketchy. As an unrelated note, I think the only reason Jedi used gestures was so the audience could get an idea of what was going on; helpful, but not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Re: Obviousness of Telekinesis No, it's not odd, it's absolutely fair. The problem is that IPE increases the Active Points so that the power is not very useful besides being completely invisible. I'm looking for a way to keep the special effect invisible to sight and hearing while not being completely invisible in game terms. The increase to active points means it is more expensive. AP limits tend to shackle the players, preventing many interesting abilities, so perhaps the answer is not to strictly limit AP's. I'm pretty sure Steve has stated that AP caps are not part of the rules, and he will not design the rules around them. I know he mentioned that in at least one SETAC discussion. A power which is difficult to detect, but not completely invisible, will logically be more expensive than one which is easy to detect and less expensive than one which is completely invisible. I would hold that being visible to the Radio and Mental sense groups only should be more expensive, higher AP and higher RP, than being visible to normal sight and hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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