Ragitsu Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20001222b Lessee here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Eh. I appreciate that Complications' date=' like Alignments, are given an official "slot" on a character sheet to show they exist...but if you were going to roleplay your character a certain way anyhow, they're mostly redundant.[/quote'] How well a player follows Alignment or Complications is not my point; some are good at it, some aren't. A bad player will still just pay lip service to Complications, just like a good player will have a richly developed personality for a character beyond just his Alignment. But the exercise to taking Complications forces a player to consider how they envision this character behaving. And because Complications can be more nuanced than Alignment, players tend to define their character's major personality traits more distinctly. Complications don't make a good character, but they help put the player on the right track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Kor Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense I'm not ignoring anything but you. Unless and until you say something helpful or useful. And I'm sure there have been original alignments created and used in D&D, I've even seen such discussed in places like Dragon magazine long ago. But that's pretty clearly "house rules." Rules as Written give you a menu of nine options for alignment. Lucius Alexander What alignment would a palindromedary be? He wasn't saying any "original alignments" were created; at least I don't think so. I think he was saying that original, robust characters can and have been created and role-played well, despite the inherent limits of the Alignment system. "Remember, kids - Fighting on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded." (I hate using that word, but sometimes, this quote is just too fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Yes' date=' it's possible to make original and interesting characters while sticking to the alignment system, but that system is more of a hindrance than anything else. Many character personalities fit into one of the boxes on the alignment diagram, but many others don't..[/quote'] I've never seen one that didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraven Kor Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense I've never seen one that didn't. Agreed; Alignment is fairly detached from personality, with a few exceptions. Even a Sociopath can be "good" (he can have a moral code that lives up to the ideals of "good", but he lacks the empathy to see good/evil from other's perspectives.) Alignment really is a function of morality and ethics and you adherence to them; not your personality, though it can affect it. IMNSHO, natch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense I've never seen one that didn't. Hm. I think I've seen lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20001222b Lessee here... What a surprise. I'm neutral good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense I'm Neutral. Uh oh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense What a surprise. I'm neutral good. Hey, me too! Shocker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Hm. I think I've seen lots. I've seen characters that people disagree about, but I find that they are actually disagreeing about the nature and motivations of the character and often are talking about quite different versions of the characters because they changed over time or spawned parallel universes. Then there are just the people who fail to realize that Good people can do bad things and still be Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Then there are just the people who fail to realize that Good people can do bad things and still be Good. Which can eventually possibly lead to a breaking point. The classic example being, of course, the initially Lawful Good Paladin that favors the law more than good to such an extreme end, that they waver from "Good", and become Lawful Neutral or even Lawful Evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense I've seen characters that people disagree about' date=' but I find that they are actually disagreeing about the nature and motivations of the character and often are talking about quite different versions of the characters because they changed over time or spawned parallel universes. Then there are just the people who fail to realize that Good people can do bad things and still be Good.[/quote'] I was more focused on the Lawful/Chaotic axis. The Good/Evil axis is a bit more muddy to debate, I suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense I was more focused on the Lawful/Chaotic axis. The Good/Evil axis is a bit more muddy to debate' date=' I suspect.[/quote'] You'd be surprised at how convoluted Lawful Alignment arguments (on their own) can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense You'd be surprised at how convoluted Lawful Alignment arguments (on their own) can get. Well, no, I wouldn't be since that was a part of the example I was thinking of; yet after a certain point it ceases to be convoluted Lawful and becomes Chaotic. The nuances can be quite interesting, at least potentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Well' date=' no, I wouldn't be since that was a part of the example I was thinking of; yet after a certain point it ceases to be convoluted Lawful and becomes Chaotic. The nuances can be quite interesting, at least potentially.[/quote'] Well, you said Good/Evil is a bit more muddy to debate. I've seen Lawful, on it's own, give Good or Evil a run for their money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Muddy as in..... vague. I think a Lawful/Chaotic discussion could actually be a lot more fruitful in the sense that, theoretically, the rules of logic apply in its evaluation. Good/Evil are values, and susceptible to the fact that completely nonrational arguments are legitimate and therefore cannot be effectively weighed against one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Muddy as in..... vague. I think a Lawful/Chaotic discussion could actually be a lot more fruitful in the sense that' date=' theoretically, the rules of logic apply in its evaluation. Good/Evil are values, and susceptible to the fact that completely nonrational arguments are legitimate and therefore cannot be effectively weighed against one another.[/quote'] I think a more correct outlook is that arguments you feel are nonrational are accepted. As for myself, I have yet to discover irrationality in morality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Can you imagine Alignment being a factor with dates? "Ugh, he's a Chaotic Good, and i'm a Lawful Evil. It'll never work!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsoul Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Can you imagine Alignment being a factor with dates? "Ugh, he's a Chaotic Good, and i'm a Lawful Evil. It'll never work!" Well they do say that opposites attract. And many people bemoan the fact that they only seemed to be attracted to people who are bad for them. Ann Rice, and many another author of horror/romance, has made a living out of writing about characters that play on this impulse towards destructive relationships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense I think a more correct outlook is that arguments you feel are nonrational are accepted. As for myself' date=' I have yet to discover irrationality in morality.[/quote'] Ah, you would, but you'd be mistaken since you shifted the terms. I didn't say irrational. You did. Just because it's NONrational doesn't mean that it is IRrational. Morality makes a LOT of sense. Just many systems have a nonrational basis (not all, though. There are several that are very rational- but note that just because they're rational doesn't mean that they are a "better" system). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted April 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Ah' date=' you would, but you'd be mistaken since you shifted the terms. I didn't say irrational. You did. Just because it's NONrational doesn't mean that it is IRrational. Morality makes a LOT of sense. Just many systems have a nonrational basis (not all, though. There are several that are very rational- but note that just because they're rational doesn't mean that they are a "better" system).[/quote'] I don't make a distinction between "nonrational" and "irrational". To me, it's too fine a hair to split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense I don't make a distinction between "nonrational" and "irrational". To me' date=' it's too fine a hair to split.[/quote'] Is that an irrational attitude, or a nonrational one? Lucius Alexander Feeding the palindromedary irony rations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narf the Mouse Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense Is that an irrational attitude, or a nonrational one? Lucius Alexander Feeding the palindromedary irony rations A nonrational irrationality of iron rations of ironing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense What a surprise. I'm neutral good. Neutral Good... Hmm, that is what I had settled on for Characters. funny that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 Re: Alignment makes perfect sense So wait, you mean SSgt Baloo is one of your characters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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