A dozen and onre Idea

[Christopher]

It think I start to have a lot of Ideas again and I would like to your opinions on how they could be made:

 

1) Reactive Mental Defense

The character has a Mental Defense power, that helps hims "shrug off" mind controll/mental illusions once he is affected (this can be simple + EGO, a different/alternate Form or duplicates "knocking him out of it").

However, the defense may be expensive (high active points in Multipower, Costs endurance or other negative impact, he becomes his heroic ID) so the defense isn't always on.

However it switches on and can't be turned of as soon as he is affected by a mental effect and as long as he is affected by one. Thus, not even on EGO+30 he could be forced to "turn it off", as he has indeed no controll.

What advantage would that be? What effect other than +x EGO can help you shrug off a mental attack?

 

2) Changing Mindclass:

A lot of mental powers are based on Mindclass and usually the Mindclass is defined by the concept of a hero. But wow much would it be worth to change them when there is no valid concept part for it?

Could it be done "on the fly"?

 

3) "Set to Stun":

I try to get some Ideas for very good stun attacks (energy-weapons). They should do No BODY Damage and No Knockback (or so few, it can be neglected).

So far I have: Killing Attack with increased STUN Multiplier Advantage, but also with "No Body" Limitation

Killing Attack, Increased STUN Multiplier, AVAD (Resistant PD/ED* or maybe even Power Defense)

The same, but only as normal Blasts. (no idea how to increase the effective stun here, except with AVAD).

NND's. But against what defense? LS: Diminished Sleep? Power Defense?

 

*don't forget that Killing STUN is affected by normal Defenses, this is explicitly said in the AVAD rules.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Edit: Aparently i mispelled the Topic. Should have meant: "A dozen and one Idea"

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

It think I start to have a lot of Ideas again and I would like to your opinions on how they could be made:

 

1) Reactive Mental Defense

The character has a Mental Defense power, that helps hims "shrug off" mind controll/mental illusions once he is affected (this can be simple + EGO, a different/alternate Form or duplicates "knocking him out of it").

However, the defense may be expensive (high active points in Multipower, Costs endurance or other negative impact, he becomes his heroic ID) so the defense isn't always on.

However it switches on and can't be turned of as soon as he is affected by a mental effect and as long as he is affected by one. Thus, not even on EGO+30 he could be forced to "turn it off", as he has indeed no controll.

What advantage would that be? What effect other than +x EGO can help you shrug off a mental attack?

 

Either a Constant Aid to Ego or a bonus to break out, and potentially a Constant Aid to that. (Possibly also: Absorption to EGO, vs. Mental Powers.)

 

2) Changing Mindclass:

A lot of mental powers are based on Mindclass and usually the Mindclass is defined by the concept of a hero. But wow much would it be worth to change them when there is no valid concept part for it?

Could it be done "on the fly"?

 

To change someone else: Mental Transform (target of one Class of Mind to another).

 

To change yourself: By the rules, probably with a Multiform. I can't see a GM in the world allowing it. ("What, he can only read Human? Okay, I switch to Alien. There's another Alien? Let's see them try to read... an Animal mind!")

 

3) "Set to Stun":

I try to get some Ideas for very good stun attacks (energy-weapons). They should do No BODY Damage and No Knockback (or so few, it can be neglected).

So far I have: Killing Attack with increased STUN Multiplier Advantage, but also with "No Body" Limitation

Killing Attack, Increased STUN Multiplier, AVAD (Resistant PD/ED* or maybe even Power Defense)

The same, but only as normal Blasts. (no idea how to increase the effective stun here, except with AVAD).

NND's. But against what defense? LS: Diminished Sleep? Power Defense?

 

Blast, STUN Only.

 

Mental Attack.

 

But you probably want to figure out what the special effect of the stunning energy attack is before you start throwing out mechanics for it. Here are some ideas:

 

• Electrical stun
  
• Light (the "Light Ocular-Oriented Kinetic Emotive Responses" from this otherwise forgettable flick).
  
• Sonics
  
• Cold
  
• Heat
  

 

Any of these could be turned into "stunning" attacks with the appropriate Advantages and Limitations.

 

One more thing to note: unless you use Hit Locations (or another optional rule), the Stun multiple for Killing Attacks is rolled on 1d3. Normal Attacks are probably more efficient for doing STUN.

[Enforcer84]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

Either a Constant Aid to Ego or a bonus to break out, and potentially a Constant Aid to that. (Possibly also: Absorption to EGO, vs. Mental Powers.)

 

 

 

To change someone else: Mental Transform (target of one Class of Mind to another).

 

To change yourself: By the rules, probably with a Multiform. I can't see a GM in the world allowing it. ("What, he can only read Human? Okay, I switch to Alien. There's another Alien? Let's see them try to read... an Animal mind!")

 

 

 

Blast, STUN Only.

 

Mental Attack.

 

But you probably want to figure out what the special effect of the stunning energy attack is before you start throwing out mechanics for it. Here are some ideas:

 

• Electrical stun
  
• Light (the "Light Ocular-Oriented Kinetic Emotive Responses" from this otherwise forgettable flick).
  
• Sonics
  
• Cold
  
• Heat
  

 

Any of these could be turned into "stunning" attacks with the appropriate Advantages and Limitations.

 

One more thing to note: unless you use Hit Locations (or another optional rule), the Stun multiple for Killing Attacks is rolled on 1d3. Normal Attacks are probably more efficient for doing STUN.

 

Maybe an Images to Mental Senses to spoof being another Class of Minds?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

Maybe an Images to Mental Senses to spoof being another Class of Minds?

 

Sure, that would probably work, but it wouldn't stop anyone from using Mental Powers on the mind in question.

[dmjalund]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

You could have a Desolid vs Mental Powers only with the special effect of switching to an alien mind

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

re: Reactive Mental Defense

I would try to keep it simple and just buy regular Mental Defense with the Extra Time and Always On Limitations and define it as you describe. You do it with Trigger but then you would end up paying more for what it is essentially a Limitation.

 

re: Stunning

 

Here is how I have built a Taser based shotgun:

...

 

20 Tazer Round Loaded Shotgun: Suppress STUN 8d6 (standard effect: 24 points), [DEX & STUN] simultaneously (+1/2), 8 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (+0) (60 Active Points); OAF (Shotgun; -1), Can Be Missile Deflected (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Physical Manifestation (Shell sticking to victim; -1/4), Limited Range (Shell must hit target with enough velocity to stick to clothes or skin [There is no damage from impact]; -1/4)

[Notes: from 5er page 36, Negative Dexterity - At DEX 1 or less, a character is CV 0. A character with negative DEX loses control over his reactions, and must succeed with DEX Rolls to perform any Actions requiring physical movement (even just aiming at a target, or making Gestures). If he fails the DEX Roll, he cannot perform the Action that Phase. Characters with a DEX of -30 (or minus their initial DEX value, whichever is better for the character) or less may take no physical actions.] - END=[8 cc]

 

2-3 hits by this round will bring down most supers (unless they have some Power Defense).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

To change yourself: By the rules' date=' probably with a Multiform. I can't see a GM in the world allowing it. ("What, he can only read Human? Okay, I switch to Alien. There's another Alien? Let's see them try to read... an Animal mind!") [/quote']

 

For the cost of the Muliform, how much Mental Defense could you buy?

[Christopher]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

Thanks everyone for answering.

 

1)

I don't think it is a limitation per se that it goes on. He can activate it himself in advance, but it also activates when he couldn't do it himself and it stays on when he needs it the most. It may even work when he is not concious.

And even when put into a Multipower, not being able to fight at full power when you are mind controlled to attack your allies/bystanders is definitely an advantage for a hero.

The trigger mechanic could work similar to a Auto-Injector: When Condition detected, inject substance X. But how could I make it work against Mental IPE's? Even Mental Awareness sense can be overcome with a smal advantage, but I want it to always work.

Of course, Limited EGO: Only when affected by Mental Attacks/to counter mental would be way easier mechanically...

 

2)

You could have a Desolid vs Mental Powers only with the special effect of switching to an alien mind

Desolidfied doesn't works against Mental Powers in 6E, otherwise this is a good idea. Or does anybody think a Desolid that only works vs. Mental would be approveable?

Would you buy it as an Advantage or Limitation fo desolidified?

 

For the cost of the Muliform' date=' how much Mental Defense could you buy?[/quote']

Way more than the campaing maximums or the GM would allow, so it may still be a good choice

 

3)

But you probably want to figure out what the special effect of the stunning energy attack is before you start throwing out mechanics for it.

[...]

One more thing to note: unless you use Hit Locations (or another optional rule), the Stun multiple for Killing Attacks is rolled on 1d3. Normal Attacks are probably more efficient for doing STUN.

Special effect is bascially an energy weapon. Similar to a Phaser "Set to stun".

Its fo a supers-character, so no hit locations. But with the Advantage (+1/4) it would be 1d3+1 Multiplier. So for 56 AP it could become a 3d6 times 1d3+1 STUN. But you are right, that wouldn't be more than a 12d6 Blast can do...

With 62 AP it would be slightly better: 3d6+1 times 1d3+1 STUN, so the STUN would be 1-4 Points higher. Or do you think it was designed so that x DC always do the same amount of STUN?

 

And I really want Stun Damage, not A Drain or Supress (unless Drain STUN is usefull here). That way the target could be stunned from a hit or K.O. with a few hits.

Of course an entangle where the Breakout uses a alternate Characteristic could work too (wasn't something like that in one of the 6E APG's?).

 

And another one:

4) a pre build/predefined Multisetting Weapon in a VPP.

I have the Idea for a Gadget VPP, and it would be possible to build a multi-setting gun inside that VPP.

The Problem is: switching the settings on the gun, is way easier (0-Phase) than switching a VPP slot (possibily 1 Minute and Required Roll) and Multisetting Gun mean usually Multipower. But Multipower in VPP is not allowed (for good reasons). Or does the Focus Limitation of the Gun changes anything on that matter?

If not, how else could I built a Multi Setting Gun in a Gadget VPP? Naked advantages for Blast? Using Martial Maneuvers(Killing Strike) for a Blast? How could I do things like Nr. 3 without a MP?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

Way more than the campaing maximums or the GM would allow' date=' so it may still be a good choice[/quote']

 

Well, it comes down to whether the GM is prepared to allow a character to be immune, or functionally immune, to mental powers all. If he is, the Multiform is probably less effective than the mental defense - buying more C o M affected is pretty inexpensive.

 

And another one:

4) a pre build/predefined Multisetting Weapon in a VPP.

I have the Idea for a Gadget VPP, and it would be possible to build a multi-setting gun inside that VPP.

The Problem is: switching the settings on the gun, is way easier (0-Phase) than switching a VPP slot (possibily 1 Minute and Required Roll) and Multisetting Gun mean usually Multipower. But Multipower in VPP is not allowed (for good reasons). Or does the Focus Limitation of the Gun changes anything on that matter?

If not, how else could I built a Multi Setting Gun in a Gadget VPP? Naked advantages for Blast? Using Martial Maneuvers(Killing Strike) for a Blast? How could I do things like Nr. 3 without a MP?

 

How about one Blast power, plus a Naked Advantage for the VPP control cost itself, adding Cosmic to the control cost, 0 END, only for the purposes of letting the gun switch between settings as a 0 phase action? It's a pretty wonky construction, but a Multipower in a VPP has a certain cheesy flavour. The only other option would be a VPP big enough to hold each MP setting at the same time, perhaps limiting each power to prohibit use of more than one slot at a time.

[Christopher]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

How about one Blast power' date=' plus a Naked Advantage for the VPP control cost itself, adding Cosmic to the control cost, 0 END, only for the purposes of letting the gun switch between settings as a 0 phase action? It's a pretty wonky construction, but a Multipower in a VPP has a certain cheesy flavour. The only other option would be a VPP big enough to hold each MP setting at the same time, perhaps limiting each power to prohibit use of more than one slot at a time.[/quote']

That fits to a though I had about how to add damage and how the different ways interact (END efficiency, Real Point efficiency).

How about realtively weak attacks (maybe 20-30 AP) but with Martial Arts that add high DC? The concept includes a "Direct Neural Feedback" with the equipment, so she could do Fine Modulation on the Fly and Aim just right. The plus side would be a very low Endurance consumption but the downside that it is more expensive form a Real Point cost to Use martial Arts. Also, I am uncertain if it is allowed, as the skills say that MA is only for HTH. Well, I better ask Steve.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

Ultimate Martial Artist includes Ranged Martial Arts. Of course, skills are not generally allowed in a VPP anyway

[Christopher]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

Ultimate Martial Artist includes Ranged Martial Arts. Of course' date=' skills are not generally allowed in a VPP anyway[/quote']

Not in the VPP. On the Powers of a VPP.

 

You know, making the 6 DC Batrang a 10 DC attack with Martial Strike and +2 Damage Classes....

[Christopher]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

You know' date=' making the 6 DC Batrang a 10 DC attack with Martial Strike and +2 Damage Classes....[/quote']

I now have the book (Basic Shot, Offensive Shot and enerjutsu are what I seeked) and I see the problems:

Weapon Element has to be baught for (possibily) each attack. Your attacks have a low range. It is seperate from Close Combat Martial Arts. But overall I think it is still a balanced as normal Martial Arts.

[dmjalund]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

you would need at least 2 Martial arts. One for HTH, one for Ranged

you may need a weapon element for each class of object you create in your VPP) entangles, Blasts, etc

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

you would need at least 2 Martial arts. One for HTH, one for Ranged

you may need a weapon element for each class of object you create in your VPP) entangles, Blasts, etc

 

You mean like this?

Bat Fu

4 1) Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort

4 2) Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort

4 3) Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 7d6 Strike

5 4) Kick: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -2 DCV, 9d6 Strike

3 5) Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, 5d6 +v/5, Target Falls

 

Batarangs

4 1) Basic Shot: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Range +2, Strike, +2 DC

4 2) Ranged Disarm: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Range +0, Disarm, 40 STR

3 3) Trip: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +0 DCV, Range +0, Strike +v/5, Target falls

 

You only need to purchase additional weapon elements if you want to use an art with something other than its 'default' element (ex: fencing>swords).

[dmjalund]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

although if the weapon is a batarag, I'd be hesitant to allow the DC to add to any trick 'entangles or Explosive attacks that come with specialty Batarangs

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

although if the weapon is a batarag' date=' I'd be hesitant to allow the DC to add to any trick 'entangles or Explosive attacks that come with specialty Batarangs[/quote']

 

I agree, the +2 Range of the Basic Shot would still apply to the other trick Batarangs though.

[Christopher]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

although if the weapon is a batarag' date=' I'd be hesitant to allow the DC to add to any trick 'entangles or Explosive attacks that come with specialty Batarangs[/quote']

I would simply call it a different weapon element. Normal Batrange, Explosive Batrang, Entangling Batrang, Killing batrang - all different weapon elements.

For the effect: Just consider the effect of a normal entangle batrang. Now consider the effect when the enemy just readied an attack and you hit him in a way that he can't use his full STR to escape (like glueing his arm to a pillar).

When you can do more "Grab effect" with the right grip, then you can do more "Entangle Effect" with the right timing.

[Christopher]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

Got a few new ones:

4) Analyze Attack:

I want a way to analyize exactly how an attack is build (dice, active points, adders, advantages, disadvanatges), after I could pervieve it.

The reason: a VPP that could be used to make the perfect defense against said attack...

 

5) Analyze Defense:

Same idea, but for the defenses of a target. So I know that 2 times Armor piercing is just the right thing to get through that defense.

 

6) Analyze Attack Pattern:

A little bit different from the earlier two. When I abort for a defensive action, I have no idea what is comming. I want a power that allows me to know exactly what attack or attacks (part of a Multiple/Combined Attack) my enemy is going to launch.

Does not need to be as complete as Nr. 4 for each, but every part that is important to how I get hit is interesting (so I know if dodge, block or Dive for Cover is better) and perhaps relative damage compared to my defenses (so I know when aborting to defense is a waste of phase).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

Got a few new ones:

4) Analyze Attack:

I want a way to analyize exactly how an attack is build (dice, active points, adders, advantages, disadvanatges), after I could pervieve it.

The reason: a VPP that could be used to make the perfect defense against said attack...

 

5) Analyze Defense:

Same idea, but for the defenses of a target. So I know that 2 times Armor piercing is just the right thing to get through that defense.

 

6) Analyze Attack Pattern:

A little bit different from the earlier two. When I abort for a defensive action, I have no idea what is comming. I want a power that allows me to know exactly what attack or attacks (part of a Multiple/Combined Attack) my enemy is going to launch.

Does not need to be as complete as Nr. 4 for each, but every part that is important to how I get hit is interesting (so I know if dodge, block or Dive for Cover is better) and perhaps relative damage compared to my defenses (so I know when aborting to defense is a waste of phase).

 

 

The biggest issue most folks will have with these is the 'meta-gaming' aspect. In a way, they could be more effective than Find Weakness (an ability from previous editions removed from 6e). If they are are just 3 point skills what would be the penalty to the rolls?

[Christopher]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

If they are are just 3 point skills what would be the penalty to the rolls?

I guess for Analyze Attack it could be the Active Points of the attacks. But I would prefer a power (perhaps 10-pt detect, with Analyzing) doing that.

[Christopher]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

Got a few new ones:

4) Analyze Attack:

I want a way to analyize exactly how an attack is build (dice, active points, adders, advantages, disadvanatges), after I could pervieve it.

The reason: a VPP that could be used to make the perfect defense against said attack...

 

5) Analyze Defense:

Same idea, but for the defenses of a target. So I know that 2 times Armor piercing is just the right thing to get through that defense.

 

6) Analyze Attack Pattern:

A little bit different from the earlier two. When I abort for a defensive action, I have no idea what is comming. I want a power that allows me to know exactly what attack or attacks (part of a Multiple/Combined Attack) my enemy is going to launch.

Does not need to be as complete as Nr. 4 for each, but every part that is important to how I get hit is interesting (so I know if dodge, block or Dive for Cover is better) and perhaps relative damage compared to my defenses (so I know when aborting to defense is a waste of phase).

 

The biggest issue most folks will have with these is the 'meta-gaming' aspect.

Let's try to get the metagaming aspect out of it:

4 and 5 only gives the Power the knowledge how it has to be configured, but the PC has still no idea how the attack is built. This requires some sort of Intelligence behind the power (at least as special effect).

 

Nr 4 might additionally require to be hit at least once. They may also allow only to be adapted to one specific attack at a time (variable "only against X" limitation on the defenses), but the PC can choose against wich attack, like he could choose wich Blast to Drain (and when the choice is wrong, only normal defenses apply).

 

Nr. 5 might require to hit the target at least once and again only the power knows the real values. Variable/Naked Advantages could be used instead of a VPP.

 

Nr.6 could just be Detect (The right defense to choose against that attack), but still doesn't reveals what powers are used.

[ideasmith]

Re: A dozen and onre Idea

 

Warning: After looking at these ideas, I decided not to worry about acceptability to hypothetical GMs, just about getting them accurately within the rules. GM (and player) discretion advised.

 

1) Reactive Mental Defense

The character has a Mental Defense power, that helps hims "shrug off" mind controll/mental illusions once he is affected (this can be simple + EGO, a different/alternate Form or duplicates "knocking him out of it").

However, the defense may be expensive (high active points in Multipower, Costs endurance or other negative impact, he becomes his heroic ID) so the defense isn't always on.

However it switches on and can't be turned of as soon as he is affected by a mental effect and as long as he is affected by one. Thus, not even on EGO+30 he could be forced to "turn it off", as he has indeed no controll.

What advantage would that be? What effect other than +x EGO can help you shrug off a mental attack?

 

Telepathy; Trigger (affected by mental power) automatically resets each time it activates; Only to break a victim free of mental powers; Self Only

 

4) a pre build/predefined Multisetting Weapon in a VPP.

I have the Idea for a Gadget VPP, and it would be possible to build a multi-setting gun inside that VPP.

The Problem is: switching the settings on the gun, is way easier (0-Phase) than switching a VPP slot (possibily 1 Minute and Required Roll) and Multisetting Gun mean usually Multipower. But Multipower in VPP is not allowed (for good reasons). Or does the Focus Limitation of the Gun changes anything on that matter?

If not, how else could I built a Multi Setting Gun in a Gadget VPP? Naked advantages for Blast? Using Martial Maneuvers(Killing Strike) for a Blast? How could I do things like Nr. 3 without a MP?

Buy the Multipower with “Counts against Power Pool’s Pool Limit”.

 

4) Analyze Attack:

I want a way to analyize exactly how an attack is build (dice, active points, adders, advantages, disadvanatges), after I could pervieve it.

The reason: a VPP that could be used to make the perfect defense against said attack...

Enhanced Senses: Detect Attack, Discriminatory, Analyze, 360 Degree Arc, Range, Sense

 

5) Analyze Defense:

Same idea, but for the defenses of a target. So I know that 2 times Armor piercing is just the right thing to get through that defense.

Enhanced Senses: Detect Defense, Discriminatory, Analyze, 360 Degree Arc, Range, Sense

 

6) Analyze Attack Pattern:

A little bit different from the earlier two. When I abort for a defensive action, I have no idea what is comming. I want a power that allows me to know exactly what attack or attacks (part of a Multiple/Combined Attack) my enemy is going to launch.

Does not need to be as complete as Nr. 4 for each, but every part that is important to how I get hit is interesting (so I know if dodge, block or Dive for Cover is better) and perhaps relative damage compared to my defenses (so I know when aborting to defense is a waste of phase).

Clairsentience with Detect Attack, Precognition; Only One Phase Ahead