Equipment stripping

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

In other words' date=' if I take your fancy ray gun, I haven't just disabled you from using it, nor was disabling you necessarily my actualy intention; maybe I just wanted to use it myself. [/quote']

Taking a Acessible Focus is normal grabbing or Teleport, UAA, Ranged. The Transform is only useable to steal inacessible foci (or at least the Teleport should be more cost efficient/reliable for Accessible Foci).

Taking the OIF and donning it are two different powers (maybe a second transform to apply the powers?).

[Dr Divago]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

You just take the item' date=' and the Damage Shields Energy comes along too (especially for things like a fire-aura that sounds logical). TK or UAA Teleport is what you use when you want to make a "faster than the physic" steal: You just grab so fast, the fire has no time to burn you.[/quote']

mmmhhh sorry, i did not fully understand what did you said

 

you're telling me i did correct using stretching for a "teleport objects away" or i did wrong and i need to replace the power with something else, like a teleport uaa or a tk?? my idea came looking at some powers in Until Database and Ultimate Speedster (teleport section)

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Well, it can do things no other power is allowed to do, so no wonder you could write a book about it.

.

 

Transform is one of the workhorse powers in Hero System (Along with EDM and now Change Enviornment). If an effect doesn't fit or work anywhere else it tends to get filed under one of those.

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Having read the top portion of this discussion, there a few things I want to add in here:

 

1) I would go with Hyper-Man's original build, when I've done this, its been as a Teleport. Nice, simple, straight forward.

2) By character contract of the rules, someone paid points for that Focus to be OIF -- that means one simple power cannot overrule it. Do you see it in canon? Yes. Would you, the player, want to have your ring nicked by someone with a 20 point power against which you have no defense?

 

Me personally? I would only become upset if it kept happening constantly and I could nothing to prevent or mitigate the situation. Sometimes bad things happen to your character. It's part of the fun (for me). It might annoy me if a player was denied access to the ability despite having justification for it but it regularly used on the PCs. OIF can be a difficult limitation to bring into play in some types of play so the occasional device to make it worth the points it earned doesn't seem that bad to me.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

mmmhhh sorry, i did not fully understand what did you said

 

you're telling me i did correct using stretching for a "teleport objects away" or i did wrong and i need to replace the power with something else, like a teleport uaa or a tk?? my idea came looking at some powers in Until Database and Ultimate Speedster (teleport section)

No, I said it is a valid build - depending on the question if you want a Damage Shield to affect it or not. So you just have to choose how you think it interacts with Damage Shields and then go for the one or the other build.

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Here's an interesting fringe case. OIF: Objects of opportunity.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Here's an interesting fringe case. OIF: Objects of opportunity.

 

 

I believe the book examples of this state that individual foci are still OAF but the character only gets the OIF Limitation value since any mundane object/weapon of that type will do in a pinch.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Here's an interesting fringe case. OIF: Objects of opportunity.

 

To 'disarm' that focus, you'd need to spend 12 seconds running around/teleporting around and grabbing up all the loose appropriate objects around, while the other person was unconscious or otherwise non-resisting so he couldn't gather some up.

[Dr Divago]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

No' date=' I said it is a valid build - depending on the question if you want a Damage Shield to affect it or not. So you just have to choose how you think it interacts with Damage Shields and then go for the one or the other build.[/quote']

Ah ok; thanks

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

To 'disarm' that focus' date=' you'd need to spend 12 seconds running around/teleporting around and grabbing up all the loose appropriate objects around, while the other person was unconscious or otherwise non-resisting so he couldn't gather some up.[/quote']

That or bring him to a place where none are in immediate vicinity (and range of his movement powers).

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Green Latern - Ring

Thor - magic Belt of stamina

Punisher - Holstered Weapons

Most knights - Sheated weapons

Green Arrow - A bow over the shoulder is basically a "sheated weapon"

 

This sounds very powerfull, especially since each of them would be considered an Inacessible Focus for a reason: That the enemy *can't* take them away easily. Sure, they are foci (totally unstealable would be no limitation) but most of them are inacessible (-1/4) not acessible (-1/2 or -1), or could be treated that way while being secured (sheated/hosltered).

 

Greens Ring: In the Middle of a Combat? Plot device.

Batmans Belt: You can still destroy it, no problem.

Hawkman: How certain are you it's an OIF, not an OAF?

Women bra: Unless bulletproof spandex, I always consider that an OAF. Maybe even a fraqile one.

 

Bold added by me. You consider a holstered or sheathed weapon Inacessible but a bra OAF? How do you figure?

[Starcloud]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Personally, I took the last as a joke.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Bold added by me. You consider a holstered or sheathed weapon Inacessible but a bra OAF? How do you figure?

 

Personally' date=' I took the last as a joke.[/quote']

Partially yes. But Wolfe has a point to, Bra's are OIF.

Just once with very little AP and thus not more than 1 PD and 1 BODY, so even 2d6 STR can easily break them.

 

Also, after more thinking holstered and sheated weapons might still be accessible. It's just that a different STR is countering your Grab. How much is the question now. Perhaps somehow deriving it from the AP is a good idea? (you wouldn't secure your "live with it or die without it" sword with a cheap sheat, would you?)

[dmjalund]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

But tBra's are OAF to Joey Tribiani

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

But tBra's are OAF to Joey Tribiani

Nope, still OIF. But he apparently has the Transform Based Attack.

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

I admit the mechanics issue that is harder to super steal the weapons of a deaf, blind hulk than a runt with super senses with Transformation build does cause bug me.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

I admit the mechanics issue that is harder to super steal the weapons of a deaf' date=' blind hulk than a runt with super senses with Transformation build does cause bug me. [/quote']

No, it can't be used to steal accessible Foci. There are alreaqdy governed by their rules.

Your OIF (those thing you don't grab, but that "grab you") a fair game for that power.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Err, they said "weapon" not specifically OAF. I think we all understood his point without it needing correction.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Err' date=' they said "weapon" not specifically OAF. I think we all understood his point without it needing correction.[/quote']

Now I don't think I understand what his point is. Or yours. Or what you think my point is.

 

Can anybody tell me if he finds a point among all those pixels?

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

No, it can't be used to steal accessible Foci. There are alreaqdy governed by their rules.

Your OIF (those thing you don't grab, but that "grab you") a fair game for that power.

 

I see no reason why the Power couldn't be used to remove Accesible Foci. The sfx and game logic both work. Accesible foci can be removed in combat such as disarm/grab but that's not only thing that can remove them. Unless that's a change in 6e. That seems obsessively pedantic unless there is some in game reason for it and, in that case, I'd give the ability a Limitation.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

I see no reason why the Power couldn't be used to remove Accesible Foci. The sfx and game logic both work. Accesible foci can be removed in combat such as disarm/grab but that's not only thing that can remove them. Unless that's a change in 6e. That seems obsessively pedantic unless there is some in game reason for it and' date=' in that case, I'd give the ability a Limitation.[/quote']

Because you can easier Steal an item out of Hulks fist, then you ever could with Grab.

 

The difference is that Accessible Foci are usually held by the character - he active uses his his STR to keep them. There is only one "Lock", but that one is just very strong.

That's not true for a helmet or armor. Here the durability to being stolen lies in the item itself, wich is why a totally different aproach ins nessesary.

 

I am not so sure it is worth a limitation. Normally a mayor transform can't take mroe than one power per use, so stealing foci with it is already a stretch (since you could disable more than one with it). It is just a draft, still requires GM approval and even then could be to powerfull.

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Because you can easier Steal an item out of Hulks fist, then you ever could with Grab.

 

The difference is that Accessible Foci are usually held by the character - he active uses his his STR to keep them. There is only one "Lock", but that one is just very strong.

That's not true for a helmet or armor. Here the durability to being stolen lies in the item itself, wich is why a totally different aproach ins nessesary.

 

I am not so sure it is worth a limitation. Normally a mayor transform can't take mroe than one power per use, so stealing foci with it is already a stretch (since you could disable more than one with it). It is just a draft, still requires GM approval and even then could be to powerfull.

 

And you can more easily hold the Hulk helpless with Flight UAA than with raw Strength. It's not forbidden to do so. Actually considering the Hulk's Body score...its probablt not that much cheaper to get enough Major Transform to work on him reliably and he likely had some form of Power Defense to boot.

 

But if Major Transform can strip an power that is innately a part of a character as its default then only being to use it to remove Focus powers seems like a Limitation and limiting that to only Inaccesible Foci. Really this is one of the issues with Transform. It's a very fiat driven power. It's "default" levels are subject to interpretation and sometimes it doesn't granular enough.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

And you can more easily hold the Hulk helpless with Flight UAA than with raw Strength. It's not forbidden to do so. Actually considering the Hulk's Body score...its probablt not that much cheaper to get enough Major Transform to work on him reliably and he likely had some form of Power Defense to boot.

That Power Defense would also disable the Flight UAA. Using Flight UAA is not forbidden - unless the GM forbids that UAA in the first place. So it's not a standart power/maneuver/rule either.

Mostly, I would not allow it to Grab somebody. That is what Grab is for and to Grab someone at range, you use TK.

 

Also, you need a lot of Power Defense (at least 14) to even Stop an average 4d6 Transform throw the same way hulks STR stops Grabs/Disarms.

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

That Power Defense would also disable the Flight UAA.

 

Only if that is listed Defense against it which would be unusual IMO but it would depend on the Special Effect of the power. Power Defense is another odd "catch all" in Hero Systerm which leads to some weird situation.

 

 

Using Flight UAA is not forbidden - unless the GM forbids that UAA in the first place. So it's not a standart power/maneuver/rule either.

Mostly, I would not allow it to Grab somebody. That is what Grab is for and to Grab someone at range, you use TK.

 

Also, you need a lot of Power Defense (at least 14) to even Stop an average 4d6 Transform throw the same way hulks STR stops Grabs/Disarms.

 

Getting to Twice his Body is going to take some time (with his Regeneration slowly healing it back.which is another oddity of Transform). Generally I'd require a Transform with the SFX: I teleport/grab somethnig of the targetr to be All or Nothing.

 

But we're getting side tracked with hypothetical situations. Just because the ability would make it easier to perform a certain action against some characters (and impossible against others) doesn't seem like a reason to forbid it as the same can be said about many abilities. It doesn't make allot of story sense that being stronger would make it more difficult to teleport things out of your hand.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

[...] to teleport things out of your hand.

Well, the original idea was a Superspeed based Striping of Incacessible Foci. That is what the transform is diesgined for. Only partially taking a amor away is possible that way (still have a dozen more locks to unbind).

It's also rather obvious that speed does not helps with accessible foci, hence it does not works on them.

 

Also, I was not designed as Transforming the focus. It's designed as "Disable powers bought with the same Inacsessible Focus by stealing the focus", Healing method: "Focus must be reaquired and re-donned".

But depending on what yousteal, this might actually be two powers:

One that takes the power from the enemy, one that applies it to you (stealing a gun, for example).