Equipment stripping

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Teleport UAA only works on Accessible Foci.

And I would build it this way:

 

Teleportation equal to the range and +1 (Fixed Location: Attackers Hand)

UOO (Useable as attack; Limited Range; +1 1/2), Defense: 1) Attacker must win a STR vs STR contest. Or 2) Power Defense, Teleportation or any form of Density Alteration Power

Note: Still incurs the penalty for targetting Foci and really big Foci may be to massive (more than a character).

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Maybe I'll just keep it simple and give the character an outrageous Slieght of Hand skill and adjucate on a casse by case basis.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Maybe I'll just keep it simple and give the character an outrageous Slieght of Hand skill and adjucate on a casse by case basis.

Even cheesier.

Pickpocketing is one thing. Stealing Thors Belt, GL's Ring or Iron Mans Armor while they wear it something totally different (also, the retaliation may be different).

 

As long as the are "suprised and not in combet", the Ring at least may be fair game for Slieght of Hand.

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Even cheesier.

Pickpocketing is one thing. Stealing Thors Belt, GL's Ring or Iron Mans Armor while they wear it something totally different (also, the retaliation may be different).

 

As long as the are "suprised and not in combet", the Ring at least may be fair game for Slieght of Hand.

 

Iron Man's armor wouldn't have been a valid target for the original power in the first place. Neither would Thor's Hammer (unless it was hanging from a hook on his belt or something). "Cheesy" in the eye of the beholder. I'm good with making skills useful for something even in Superheroic games and it would cost a good amount of points to have a chance of reasonable chance of pulling off a limited and fairly easily evaded stunt plus it avoids the trap of making up complex power builds for every little thing. Skills can be circumvented with other Skills or role playing ("Oh, its the Picker. I secure my Zap Gun.") in my game so its a trick that'll probably work one all of once on any given character if its effects them at all.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Skills can be circumvented with other Skills or role playing ("Oh' date=' its the Picker. I secure my Zap Gun.") in my game so its a trick that'll probably work one all of once on any given character if its effects them at all.[/quote']

First you say: can steal Rings, Belts and secured weapons

Now you say: Can't steal secured weapons.

 

So what now: Does it work on inacessible Foci, or not?

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

First you say: can steal Rings, Belts and secured weapons

Now you say: Can't steal secured weapons.

 

So what now: Does it work on inacessible Foci, or not?

 

Here is my original post with the relevant parts bolded for emphasis

 

The character is so fast they can remove unsecured or simple items from another character's posession in the blink of an eye. Things like belts' date=' rings, holstered and sheathed weapons[/b'], etc are fair targets but not complex items like suits of armor or things with complex or secured clasps. Some types of clothing could be removed too. Basically anything that could be snatched off an unresisting person is fair game.

 

Rings are a fringe case. Some slide off with the smallest effort, some don't. I'm not sure if GL can be easily removed or not (they might not even be Foci in Hero System terms).

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Rings are a fringe case. Some slide off with the smallest effort' date=' some don't. I'm not sure if GL can be easily removed or not (they might not even be Foci in Hero System terms).[/quote']

Aren't belts also Fringe cases? At least the most I know are harder to seperate from the trousers, than droping said trousers.

 

Yes, rings are foci. "Some common examples of Inaccessible Foci include powered armor, magic rings, a belt, and similar items." - 6E1 377

 

Stealing/depriving the enemy from using an Accessible Focus like weapons, shields, magic wands or easily torn robes is just a 08/15 Grab or Grab By (if you wan't to be out of hth range afterwards).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

I wouldn't consider GL rings to be foci because the bearer can just go 'hey, ring, get back on my finger'.

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Aren't belts also Fringe cases? At least the most I know are harder to seperate from the trousers, than droping said trousers.

 

Depends on the style of belt. But that's goes with what I was sayhing. Its such a situational ability that writing it up as a power would probably be more trouble than its worth. There are some excellent ideas in this thread for a similar ability that would be more reliable and wider in scope but for what I'm looking it seems like some hand waving would work best.

 

Yes, rings are foci. "Some common examples of Inaccessible Foci include powered armor, magic rings, a belt, and similar items." - 6E1 377

 

Well yes some rings are Foci. If for example, my magic ring can never be removed against my will, is indestructible and I can summon it instantly and unfailingly onto my finger then its a special effect not a Foci*. There are many characters that have objects that look like Foci but really aren't and since fiction doesn't work by Hero System rules many more that don't fall neatly into any game mechenic so you have to make a judgement call if you write them up in game terms. I'm not sure where GL rings fit in since I don't know the details about them.

 

*even though some or all of these facts might be circumvented as part of a plot device

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Depends on the style of belt.

Okay, a rope around the waist "belt" is most likely an acessible focus. But most normal Belts in normal using conditions aren't.

 

There are many characters that have objects that look like Foci but really aren't and since fiction doesn't work by Hero System rules many more that don't fall neatly into any game mechenic so you have to make a judgement call if you write them up in game terms. I'm not sure where GL rings fit in since I don't know the details about them.

The answer to all these problems is a simple one: With what focus limitation has it been bought? The six things you need to know about a Focus limitation:

Obviousness; Accessibility; Mobility; Expendability; Durability; Applicability (can it be used by others) are on the sheet.

If there is no Focus on the sheet, then it's not a focus. Either because the power is inherent or it's an practically indestructible, auto-return item. In that chase the item is maybe a material Manifestation (only if activation is difficulty), but for most parts the "item" is just a special effect.

 

Focus is a limitation. Every limitation is simple: There are times when your powers don't work, thus you have to pay less for them. The value of the Limitations says how often that limitation affects you. In the chase of Foci, that value and how is made also tells you how easy it is to actively deprive someone of it's use.

[Dr Divago]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

This is how I've built such a 'faster than a speeding bullet' effect using 5er rules in the past (usually part of a Multipower or VPP):

i did something in the exact opposite way:

for a power to "teleport in my hand an object" i used stretching, no nocombat, does not pass through intervening space, no velocity damage, etc

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

i did something in the exact opposite way:

for a power to "teleport in my hand an object" i used stretching, no nocombat, does not pass through intervening space, no velocity damage, etc

 

But if this was still simulating a teleportation special effect it would run into issues when used to take (grab) an object being held by a target with a Damage Shield. Since it is still using the character's personal Strength for the Grab via the Stretching it still activates the Damage Shield which makes little sense when combined with a teleportation sfx.

[dmjalund]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]38675[/ATTACH]

[Dr Divago]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

But if this was still simulating a teleportation special effect it would run into issues when used to take (grab) an object being held by a target with a Damage Shield. Since it is still using the character's personal Strength for the Grab via the Stretching it still activates the Damage Shield which makes little sense when combined with a teleportation sfx.

mmmmmhhh

i never thought about it x_x

the main problem is you need a STR vs STR contest x_x

 

i could explain the damage shield effect will trigger because she teleport the object inside her hands... so ultimately she get the damage after the grab...

... ok is poor explaination >_<

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

mmmmmhhh

i never thought about it x_x

the main problem is you need a STR vs STR contest x_x

 

i could explain the damage shield effect will trigger because she teleport the object inside her hands... so ultimately she get the damage after the grab...

... ok is poor explaination >_<

 

Well, here's the thing. If the special effect is 'teleporting stuff away', then there's not really a STR vs STR contest involved because you aren't struggling against the other person. If the special effect is 'zipping over and grabbing stuff', then there is. This is why I'd use the Teleport UAA construct for a teleporter and the TK construct for a speedster.

[Martin2]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Well' date=' here's the thing. If the special effect is 'teleporting stuff away', then there's not really a STR vs STR contest involved because you aren't struggling against the other person. If the special effect is 'zipping over and grabbing stuff', then there is. This is why I'd use the Teleport UAA construct for a teleporter and the TK construct for a speedster. [/quote']

 

How would you work out the Teleport remove object then?

 

My Teleport player wanted a teleport object removal power.

 

I sort of bodged an effective teleport grab within 20m with an effective +10 to hit / grab but with an effective 10STR +2 body grab (2D6 standard roll will a bonus +2) for 4 points in a MP. It functions as his move small objects (I have a limit of 5kg) to and from him within 20m.

 

So it has been used to remove guns from the grasps of VIPER agents with most attempts.

 

It was my method of trying to stop him teleporting everything off people (I did allow a helmet I think).

 

This sort of power has the same problem with the speed removal.

 

He had a similar argument if it is portable I can teleport it to me.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

i could explain the damage shield effect will trigger because she teleport the object inside her hands... so ultimately she get the damage after the grab...

... ok is poor explaination >_<

Not as unlike as you think. When we teleport one Cubic Centimeter of solar mass from the sun to the earth, the "damage shield" will kill everything in a few hundred miles.

 

You just take the item, and the Damage Shields Energy comes along too (especially for things like a fire-aura that sounds logical). TK or UAA Teleport is what you use when you want to make a "faster than the physic" steal: You just grab so fast, the fire has no time to burn you.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

This sort of power has the same problem with the speed removal.

 

He had a similar argument if it is portable I can teleport it to me.

For the hero system it is not about portability, it is about accessability. It may sound counter intuitive that you can steal a gun but not a helmet/vest at first, but mostly that is for balacing.

Possible fluff solution:

His teleport object has a flaw, that it must transport what it is "inside" the object too. Inside the helmet is a Viper goon (jup, the whole body counts). And that is just to much mass for the power. Stealing a gun with amunition is no problem at all.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

How would you work out the Teleport remove object then?

 

My Teleport player wanted a teleport object removal power.

 

I sort of bodged an effective teleport grab within 20m with an effective +10 to hit / grab but with an effective 10STR +2 body grab (2D6 standard roll will a bonus +2) for 4 points in a MP. It functions as his move small objects (I have a limit of 5kg) to and from him within 20m.

 

So it has been used to remove guns from the grasps of VIPER agents with most attempts.

 

It was my method of trying to stop him teleporting everything off people (I did allow a helmet I think).

 

This sort of power has the same problem with the speed removal.

 

He had a similar argument if it is portable I can teleport it to me.

 

Well, firstly, there's the rules for targetting foci (Only accessible foci, if I'm recalling the rules, can be targetted by ranged attacks). He's not swiping any armor or the like; change some of the VIPER guns to OIFs like gauntlet-blasters instead of pistols, but not all of them so he's not completely nerfed.

Secondly, there's the rules for Useable As Attack requiring a reasonably common set of defenses. Something as simple as a basic PD forcefield could interfere with his snatching stuff.

[dmjalund]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Transform - Inaccesible Focus to Accessible Focus?

[phoenix240]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Sometimes I think you could do a whole book just on Transform.

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Sometimes I think you could do a whole book just on Transform.

Well, it can do things no other power is allowed to do, so no wonder you could write a book about it.

No other power is allowed to take away a power build with OIF or not Focus at all, but Mayor Transform can do it.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Having read the top portion of this discussion, there a few things I want to add in here:

 

1) I would go with Hyper-Man's original build, when I've done this, its been as a Teleport. Nice, simple, straight forward.

2) By character contract of the rules, someone paid points for that Focus to be OIF -- that means one simple power cannot overrule it. Do you see it in canon? Yes. Would you, the player, want to have your ring nicked by someone with a 20 point power against which you have no defense?

 

No.

 

I know I would leave the table if my signature look-awesome thing was snagged by what felt like cheating, even if the GM said "Well, it happened, so stop crying." That's very often my point of reference. Would I allow it? Would I want it done to me?

 

3) No, you cannot "Transform" someone from being a GL into "not being a GL." That just doesn't work. Yes, you can say "I said so," but in fairness, that isn't really what Transform "does."

[Christopher]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

3) No' date=' you cannot "Transform" someone from being a GL into "not being a GL." That just doesn't work. Yes, you can say "I said so," but in fairness, that isn't really what Transform "does."[/quote']

A mayor transform CAN take away a power, even one without any form of Focus. So what we have in mind (and i wrote up) is a Mayor Transform that does exactly that - taking away a power, with a really easy healing (just get you focus back). That you can take multiple powers that have the same focus is the main problem here, so this requires carefull measure by the GM.

Still a STOP-sign power, but none the less Transform can do it.

[Lucius]

Re: Equipment stripping

 

Having read the top portion of this discussion' date=' there a few things I want to add in here:[/Quote']

 

Thia Halmades! Where have you been? Do you know you've been missed?

 

 

Right. The game effect is: Disable enemy Powers' date=' by stealing the Inacessible Focus (seriously, why else would you steal it?)[/quote']

 

Why did I steal it? Because now it's power is mine! Take that!

 

*ZAP!*

 

 

 

In other words, if I take your fancy ray gun, I haven't just disabled you from using it, nor was disabling you necessarily my actual intention; maybe I just wanted to use it myself.

 

 

 

And who is this Mayor Transform guy? I didn't vote for him!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary doesn't know where Mayor Transform is mayor of, but suspects his political slogan is "Transformation you can Believe in"