How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

[Doc Samson]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

Yes he also can't use Stretching to jump farther off the ground' date=' swing from buildings, turn himself into a hang glider, or swim better.[/quote']

But he can use it to can leap across a chasm? If it can't be used to jump higher or swing from a building, then why allow a leap across an open space?

I am not arguing from a common sense perspective, but from a rules perspective.

 

I'll try to explain what I mean. Take Telekinesis for example. A character cannot move himself using TK. A Telekinetic may be able to pick up a 100 ton rock but as soon as he steps on it he cant move it any more. That also doesn't make sense to me from a common sense point of view but from a rules perspective a decision was made to not allow Telekinesis to be used as a movement power.

 

I think allowing Stretching to be used to Climb is an exception and was not meant to allow Stretching to be used in place of other movement powers.

[Christopher]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

I think you have made an interesting point. I think climbing is an exception as there are powers for all of those other modes of movement. There is no power that increases your climbing speed (Clinging allows you to use your ground movement but does not increase it' date=' for that you must buy Running).[/quote']

Flying, must be in contact with surface works too but you have to keep moving.

 

But you did made a point. Well, let's stop guessing and ask the one who made the rulse.

[Doc Samson]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

Flying, must be in contact with surface works too but you have to keep moving.

 

But you did made a point. Well, let's stop guessing and ask the one who made the rulse.

Heh, you caught me removing that. Actually Swinging can be used to Climb too.

[casualplayer]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

Maybe Stretchers should buy Indirect on their Running?

[Bloodstone]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

So why even allow it all?

If 6e is going allow stretching to have a pull-myself-to-x effect for vertical distance, then it makes no 'common sense' to then disallow a similar pull-myself-to-x for a horizontal distance.

 

Ooops, seems I was misremembering the rules on this one.

 

I thought they had removed the ability to use Stretching to move vertically but upon looking at the book it's still in there. So you can use Swinging or Stretching to accomplish that particular stunt.

 

My bad and yes, I agree, that does seem as bit odd...

[Christopher]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

My bad and yes' date=' I agree, that does seem as bit odd...[/quote']

Not really. Moving upwards is a rather unsual way of movement. Moving Along the ground is rather common (you get 12m for free, after all).

So it can double as the unusual movement, but not as the usual one (wich has it's own rules).

 

Frankly, I don't see much of a problem here: Just buy 20m Stretching, Legs and +8m Running and you can cross a 20m chasm in one Full phase (or a half move NC-Running).

 

And when you don't have to use streching to get across a chasm, you can just use your "Stretchy Legs" Running for the cost of any other running.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

I suggest it would be more appropriate for the book to say that you CAN use Stretching to reach out to an object, grab it and pull yourself to the object. But you use your normal movement abilities to move closer, so if you have 30 m Stretching and 12 meters running, it will take two full moves and a half move to pull yourself to the object.

[Christopher]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

I suggest it would be more appropriate for the book to say that you CAN use Stretching to reach out to an object' date=' grab it and pull yourself to the object. But you use your normal movement abilities to move closer, so if you have 30 m Stretching and 12 meters running, it will take two full moves and a half move to pull yourself to the object.[/quote']

So, what is the difference between running and pulling then? Or are you just simply running towards it, just like the rules allows you as written?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

But he can use it to can leap across a chasm?

 

Leap across a chasm, no.

 

Step across a chasm, sure. If you have 6" of Stretching, and the chasm is 6" (or less) wide, why wouldn't you be able to take the giant step?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

I suggest it would be more appropriate for the book to say that you CAN use Stretching to reach out to an object' date=' grab it and pull yourself to the object. But you use your normal movement abilities to move closer, so if you have 30 m Stretching and 12 meters running, it will take two full moves and a half move to pull yourself to the object.[/quote']

 

This makes more sense.

 

So let's say the character with 30 m Stretching and 12 m Running is in an tunnel with 2 m ceilings and comes to a 29 m wide chasm of unknown depth with the tunnel continuing on the other side.

He certainly has enough reach to punch or grab someone standing on the other side of the chasm but he doesn't have enough Running to get there (Leaping isn't even an option due to ceiling height).

 

Most movement abilities like Running, Flight, Gliding, Swimming and Tunneling are not primarily intended to determine maximum total distance, they primarily determine how fast a character moves in the smallest measurable unit of time (a Phase). Leaping, Teleportation and Stretching* ARE primarily using that maximum total. Swinging is a special case as it is dependent on surroundings* (like Leaping and Teleportation) but in other ways functions as another form of Limited Flight (similar to Gliding).

 

* example:

Batman is in the Batboat under a bridge. If his Bat-Swingline isn't long enough to reach the bottom of the bridge's deck then he can't use it to get up there directly. He might be able to make it via several smaller jumps from a support tower. Continuous Flight via a Bat-Jetpack would eliminate any doubt whether he could do it, it would just be a matter of how long would it take.

[Ragitsu]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

Striking Appearance.

[Christopher]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

striking appearance.

wtf?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

So' date=' what is the difference between running and pulling then? Or are you just simply running towards it, just like the rules allows you as written?[/quote']

 

What is the difference between running, skateboarding and rocket boots? They are all special effects of the power "Running", per 6er p 277 sample powers. "Running" as a power is simply the label attached to "ground movement", not the Oxford English dictionary definition of running.

 

This makes more sense.

 

So let's say the character with 30 m Stretching and 12 m Running is in an tunnel with 2 m ceilings and comes to a 29 m wide chasm of unknown depth with the tunnel continuing on the other side.

He certainly has enough reach to punch or grab someone standing on the other side of the chasm but he doesn't have enough Running to get there (Leaping isn't even an option due to ceiling height)

 

Yup - he can get across, but he'll have to take some time to Stretch across, anchor on the other side and Stretch/Retract over. What, you wanted to retract instantly? Then buy your Movement higher - that's how you cover more distance in the same time.

[dmjalund]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

someone with 20m stretching and 12m running would cross a 20m chasm thusly

phase 1: stretch and grab wall (or something) on onther side

phase 2: move 12m across chasm. (at the end of this phase, the bulk of the character is 12m across with one part (a leg or his legs or something) stretching back 12m to the start of the gap.

phase 2: move the remaining 8m. since this is more than 1/2 his move, he has yet to disengage his limbs that are stretching back to the start.

phase 3: disenguage his stretched limbs.

phase 4. continue down tunnel.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

That is certainly the most palatable house-rule approach I've seen put forth (besides just ignoring the prohibition on pull-to movement) but according to 6e RAW it's not possible.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

From Steve's Rules Question answer, a GM could take either approach, depending on how literal-minded they want to be. To me, this would be a good item to be FAQ'd/errata'd/6er'd away.

 

The "stretching allows you to get there and movement determines how quickly you can get there" approach makes the most sense. After all, I would allow a character with normal legs to step over a chasm a foot or two across - he doesn't need a little bit of Flight or a Leap based on the length of his legs. If he can stretch to have longer legs, he can step across a wider chasm.

 

Perhaps the better question is why the character who can Stretch his legs out to 30 meters has not reasoned from effect and increased movement speed in some form.

 

I don't see "stepping across the chasm" being common enough, or adding such value to Stretching, to mandate an extra cost.

[Orion]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

someone with 20m stretching and 12m running would cross a 20m chasm thusly

phase 1: stretch and grab wall (or something) on onther side

phase 2: move 12m across chasm. (at the end of this phase, the bulk of the character is 12m across with one part (a leg or his legs or something) stretching back 12m to the start of the gap.

phase 2: move the remaining 8m. since this is more than 1/2 his move, he has yet to disengage his limbs that are stretching back to the start.

 

Just curious, but if he can stretch 20m in the first phase, why can't he unstretch 20m in the second one? Seems to me the distance stretched in a phase should be solely dependent on the stretching power. If you want to define this as running or leaping, that's fine, but as long as it is stretching is seems other movement powers shouldn't matter.

[dmjalund]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

Just curious' date=' but if he can stretch 20m in the first phase, why can't he unstretch 20m in the second one? Seems to me the distance stretched in a phase should be solely dependent on the stretching power. If you want to define this as running or leaping, that's fine, but as long as it is stretching is seems other movement powers shouldn't matter.[/quote']Because only a limbs worth of character has stretched across the chasm. the slower Running based movement determines how fast he can move the bulk of his mass.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

Just curious' date=' but if he can stretch 20m in the first phase, why can't he unstretch 20m in the second one? Seems to me the distance stretched in a phase should be solely dependent on the stretching power. If you want to define this as running or leaping, that's fine, but as long as it is stretching is seems other movement powers shouldn't matter.[/quote']

 

Because only a limbs worth of character has stretched across the chasm. the slower Running based movement determines how fast he can move the bulk of his mass.

 

I agree with dmjalund. I would add that, if the player thinks that the rest of his mass should follow at the Stretching rate, then he should buy up his movement accordingly. He doesn't get to cover ground faster because of Stretching, whether there's a chasm in the way or not.

 

A player vehemently arguing that he should be able to "unstretch" to cover distance as fast as he can stretch, regardless of any movement power to accomplish that, would likely lead me to literally enforce the "stretching never, ever, ever changes your movement abilities" rule to its fullest literal result.

 

Actually, for consistency, I think I'd probably limit "pulling yourself up" to climbing speeds too.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

Just curious' date=' but if he can stretch 20m in the first phase, why can't he unstretch 20m in the second one? Seems to me the distance stretched in a phase should be solely dependent on the stretching power. If you want to define this as running or leaping, that's fine, but as long as it is stretching is seems other movement powers shouldn't matter.[/quote']

 

I have a 'common sense' disconnect with this.

 

Given the character has 20m Stretching.

This can be used to Grab a target (human mass or higher dependent on STR) 20m away and bring that target to the character in a single Phase action.

There is no reason other than a nebulously defined 'balance' to disallow grabbing an immobile object 20m away and bringing the character to that object.

 

Plus, since 6er explicitly allows for the vertical grab and move-up what other movement ability would govern the rate of that assent if not Stretching?

[Christopher]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

someone with 20m stretching and 12m running would cross a 20m chasm thusly

phase 1: stretch and grab wall (or something) on onther side

phase 2: move 12m across chasm. (at the end of this phase, the bulk of the character is 12m across with one part (a leg or his legs or something) stretching back 12m to the start of the gap.

phase 2: move the remaining 8m. since this is more than 1/2 his move, he has yet to disengage his limbs that are stretching back to the start.

phase 3: disenguage his stretched limbs.

phase 4. continue down tunnel.

1. I already wrote the same thing down.

2. Afaik Stretching and Unstretching takes no time. You can even fully stretch and unstrech in the same phase (normally). So this only takes two phases, not four.

3. After some thinking I would count the "unstretching" of the one leg and the stretching of the other leg (while moving his body across) towards his total stretch/unstretch per phase. This would limit his movement in the first phase to 10m (20m Streching to bring the feet over, 2m Stretching for every 1m Moved).

[lapsedgamer]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

1. I already wrote the same thing down.

2. Afaik Stretching and Unstretching takes no time. You can even fully stretch and unstrech in the same phase (normally). So this only takes two phases, not four.

3. After some thinking I would count the "unstretching" of the one leg and the stretching of the other leg (while moving his body across) towards his total stretch/unstretch per phase. This would limit his movement in the first phase to 10m (20m Streching to bring the feet over, 2m Stretching for every 1m Moved).

 

I think it's just a balance issue that causes a little bit of a mental disconnect because we are all used to it being one way for so many years. Only in 5th and 6th Edition did this stuff become an issue, as the system moved more and more towards trying to fill in all of the old munchkin exploits. This seems even more prevalent in 6th edition, as the trend seem to be to strip most of the freebies out of purchased powers. If I rememebr correctly, you don't get free stretching and shrinking growth momentum damage anymore. You have to buy a separate H-t-H attack.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

I think it's just a balance issue that causes a little bit of a mental disconnect because we are all used to it being one way for so many years. Only in 5th and 6th Edition did this stuff become an issue' date=' as the system moved more and more towards trying to fill in all of the old munchkin exploits. This seems even more prevalent in 6th edition, as the trend seem to be to strip most of the freebies out of purchased powers. If I rememebr correctly, you don't get free stretching and shrinking growth momentum damage anymore. You have to buy a separate H-t-H attack.[/quote']

 

I think 6e moved closer to incremental purchases - you buy each ability separately, reducing the package deal powers. While you don't get HTH momentum damage with Shrinking and Stretching, both also saw their costs reduced due to some abilities being stripped out.

[Doc Samson]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

I think these are all interesting observations. I think when they abandoned the 5pts. per increment paradigm they were able to re-write many powers in a way that they thought would promote balance, such as the aforementioned stretching and shrinking powers and (going in the other direction) growth.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How would you build Mr. Fantastic's or Plastic Man's movement?

 

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