Once Were Minions

[Shadowsoul]

I have a few weird ideas for campaigns at the moment. I don't have the time to put any of them into practice at the moment but I just wanted to see what you all thought of them.

 

Once Were Minions

 

This campaign idea was created when I began to wonder what happened to all of the minions who were left over once the Dark Lord was destroyed/defeated.

 

Here is one possibility.

 

The Lord Doom had gathered all evil things under his banner and laid siege to the Golden Towers, the mighty edifices which held the elemental powers of the world inside them.

 

The Towers could not be breached by main force but Lord Doom had discovered the secrets of the Ways Between, paths through time and space. By breaching the Heart of the Ways he would be able to bypass the Towers' defences and seize control of elemental defences which could then be used to shatter the forces of Good. With the Heart also under his control he would be able to dispatch his forces to every corner of the planet, ensuring that every nation was crushed beneath his iron heel.

 

So Lord Doom led his darkling hordes into the Ways Between and reached the Heart, alone. There he was promptly assassinated by a group of pesky heroes who unleashed the fearsome powers of prophecy, true friendship and self-sacrifice against him.

 

The Ways were rocked by Doom's death and his army was scattered across the multiverse. Leaving the forces of Good to celebrate an age of peace and enlightenment.

 

For heroes this is where the story ends.

 

But this is not a story of heroes.

 

The bulk of Doom's Dark Horde fetched up on an alien planet, peopled by strange creatures and unknown powers. The lords and officers of the combined armies were bound to Doom in body and soul and those that survived his destruction now suffer from varying degrees of insanity. Now the various armies are beggining to fragment and succumb to infighting as the officers allow their paranoia to run riot. This is not their story either.

 

This is the story of Minions. The poor bloody infantry of the evil armies. They must struggle to survive hostile fauna, inscrutable alien races, weird powers and the demented machinations of their own officers. And perhaps, now that they have been freed from the Dark Lord's shadow, perhaps those who once were minions will forge a new and epic destiny beneath foreign stars.

 

The party would start out as a mixed squad of minions carrying out the orders of their mad officers. As time went by they would be offered the chance to escape and strike out on their own.

 

I'm thinking that starting points would be 125-150. 'Races' would include Orcs, Goblins, Ghouls (not undead but a living race of devolved humans that feed on corpses and are unusually strong and resilient), Giant Spiders, Ogres and Hellbats (Large firebreathing bats). Other character concepts would be considered.

 

So tell me.

 

Would anyone, (theoretically), want to play in this campaign?

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

A few more notes.

 

Other minion types are - Wargs, Skeletons and Lizardmen. While the Lizardmen were not one of the races created or corrupted by Lord Doom they did favour swamps and marshes and so were among the first peoples to fall to Doom as he reached out of the dark places of the world. Doom conquered many Lizardman tribes and bound them together into the slave-kingdom of Murk. So, although the Lizardmen hated Lord Doom they feared him even more and dispatched a large army to aid him in the final battle. Equipped with primitive weapons and suspect loyalty, this army was used as cannon-fodder in the many battles with the forces of Good and the battered remains have now been integrated into other dark hordes.

 

I use the term 'aliens' for the denizens of the new realm. That is not to say that they are bug eyed creatures with starships and rayguns. Just that they are original races that the Minions will never have encountered before.

 

Initial adventures and plot seeds.

 

- The officers of your particular section of the horde have chosen to attack a heavily defended hill-top fortress and most of this army is doomed. But a drunken scout has revealed the existence of a hidden cave at the base of the hill. Can your squad survive bombardment and mad officers long enough to reach the cave and hide in it until the battle is safely over?

 

- Random executions are a fact of life. But one general has begun taking this to extremes, wiping out entire regiments. If you don't want to be next then you had better assassinate him. But how to get away with it?

 

- The army has blundered past an ancient tomb. What secrets might lurk within it? In the old world this tomb would have been crawling with adventurers, but in this new realm perhaps it would be possible to clear the tomb's current denizens and move in.

 

- A group of trolls has taken to camping near your squad. It is only a matter of time before they try to eat you. Try to placate them with offerings of meat while you search the alien landscape for a poison that will affect the trolls' immensely robust metabolisms.

 

- Alien raiders have been ravaging the dark horde as it marches through a new area. Your squad has been dispatched on a search and destroy mission.

 

- An alien warlord is hiring mercenaries to destroy the mysterious being known as The Architect. Do you have what it takes to carve out a name in this new land?

 

- The squad is knocked out by a strange light and wakes up in a city that floats in the clouds. Can they escape back to ground level before their captors kill and dissect them?

[Orion]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

So tell me.

 

Would anyone, (theoretically), want to play in this campaign?

 

Not much different than the minions of drow campaigns I and other have proposed over the years. Play the monsters fighting to survive in a world against them. Do evil unto others before they can do it to you. Trust no one, especially those in your group.

 

I think a big determinant of whether I (and others) would want to play is the expected morality of the characters. If we're monsters, but played in a basically good way, it loses the interest to me. I'd rather just play good humans stuck in the same conditions. If we're evil, and doing evil things just for the sake of being evil, then I have no interest. I have no interest in randomly killing, looting, and raping the local townfolk, and generally will not play with those that do enjoy this. But, if we're evil, trying to survive against a greater evil, and social roleplaying is featured, then I could get into it. Help all those in my band...until I need to knife one in the dark to get a promotion. Defend my brothers...but make sure they die enabling my escape, not the other way around. Speak praises of all my superiors when they are in earshot....and scheme against them the rest of the time. Becoming the boss is the goal, and the only goal. Everyone else is just a tool to use towards that end.

 

I like the idea, but am not sure how well I could play evil. 10 years ago, no problem, but now being a bad guy leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Now if we are evil, but doing evil unto those even worse than us, I like it better. If I was merely conscripted into the service of the Dark Lord, and never wanted to be evil, then it kind of loses the point.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

Fascinating. I would definitely being willing to play in this.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

Not much different than the minions of drow campaigns I and other have proposed over the years. Play the monsters fighting to survive in a world against them. Do evil unto others before they can do it to you. Trust no one, especially those in your group.

 

I think a big determinant of whether I (and others) would want to play is the expected morality of the characters. If we're monsters, but played in a basically good way, it loses the interest to me. I'd rather just play good humans stuck in the same conditions. If we're evil, and doing evil things just for the sake of being evil, then I have no interest. I have no interest in randomly killing, looting, and raping the local townfolk, and generally will not play with those that do enjoy this. But, if we're evil, trying to survive against a greater evil, and social roleplaying is featured, then I could get into it. Help all those in my band...until I need to knife one in the dark to get a promotion. Defend my brothers...but make sure they die enabling my escape, not the other way around. Speak praises of all my superiors when they are in earshot....and scheme against them the rest of the time. Becoming the boss is the goal, and the only goal. Everyone else is just a tool to use towards that end.

 

I like the idea, but am not sure how well I could play evil. 10 years ago, no problem, but now being a bad guy leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Now if we are evil, but doing evil unto those even worse than us, I like it better. If I was merely conscripted into the service of the Dark Lord, and never wanted to be evil, then it kind of loses the point.

 

That'd be interesting, but I don't see it as necessary. You could leave Good and Evil behind, as those concepts only meant something to you in the world you left behind. Now there is only What You Know and the Alien.

 

Very, very intriguing.

[The Engineer]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

If this had been proposed by one of my regular gaming groups I would so be in this.

[Gent]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

I like this idea. I'd be interested in playing in this, but, as I usually GM instead of playing, I will file it away to run in the future.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

That'd be interesting, but I don't see it as necessary. You could leave Good and Evil behind, as those concepts only meant something to you in the world you left behind. Now there is only What You Know and the Alien.

 

Very, very intriguing.

 

That's what I was going for. Good vs Evil doesn't matter any more, because Good has won. This is about what happens to 'Evil' beings once the cause of Evil has been destroyed.

 

The idea of transplanting the Minions to another realm was partly to avoid having to worry too much about morality. I'm not interested in a D&D Monsters Campaign in which human towns become dungeons to fight through and innocent villagers are encounters.

 

I'd rather push these monstrous characters out of their comfort zone and see what happens to them.

 

That being said I wouldn't expect the Minions to develop a social conscience. They are out for survival. Later on they might try to gather power and wealth but initially they would just be trying to make it through the day.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

Well I like the back story. Not sure about actually playing in such a campaign. It would have to be with a group I explicitly trusted. If there was even one player I thought might go PvP crazy, I would not jump in. It would be so easy for a player to use the excuses that he is "just trying to survive" and "we're all evil anyway" to justify being a jacktard.

[薔薇語]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

Indeed, this sounds like a very interesting concept - and given more detail, I'd probably take to joining in as well.

 

Something to make note of, though, as it pertains to the "morality" of the characters: 'everyone is a hero in their own story.' Remember, for as "evil" as Darth Vader was (slicing n' dicing children for heaven's sake), he did so for what he considered justified reasons (Bring order and a semblance of justice & protect his love).

 

I state all this because, it seems easy enough to introduce a team of characters that despite their extra-group actions might have been, their internal sense of right n' wrong is quite similar to others. To reference a rather apt, albeit disgusting example, the KKK provides us with a clue as to how this would look. Violence n' murder of other 'good' WASPs is strictly no-no as they are part of one's ingroup but everyone else is fair game. This can provide for an interesting starting point.

 

So, what it seems like is that a group with an established history with eachother (same race, or other such applicable group). Each has already proven them self to the group in the battles with the 'good guys', so there is already a sense of mutual trust and admiration.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents. This certainly sounds interesting and I'd be up for it.

 

La Rose.

[Vondy]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

Is a wereminion an upright citizen who is only a minion under the full moon?

[Orion]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

That's what I was going for. Good vs Evil doesn't matter any more' date=' because Good has won. This is about what happens to 'Evil' beings once the cause of Evil has been destroyed. [/quote']

 

I don't understand how the morality does not matter. If I were good before, I would still act good. If I were an evil, backstabbing SOB before, I'm going to continue be that way. Does not matter that the side of Good won, and that I can never get back to my home in the swamps - I'm still going to take anything not tied down, slit throats of those that oppose me, generally make sure I come first, and screw everyone else. Sure, we have to work together to survive, but I never liked Joe anyway, and if the demon is going to attack us, I'm going to try and ensure Joe gets eaten as a distraction so I can get away.

 

If we are evil minions, my character would continue to act evil, and would always put himself and his concerns above the party's. If we're not really all that evil, and were just conscripts in the evil army, then there is little actual difference from playing elves, dwarves, and humans in the same situation. Either campaign can be good, but it's unclear to me which one you plan to do.

[Steve]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

In a way, this reminds me of the old D&D "Reverse Dungeon" module. Players got to be the orcs, trolls and other critters that populated a dungeon, going out on missions to terrorize the countryside.

 

Evil groups require a lot of special off-screen care to ensure it doesn't devolve into a "last monster standing" situation. Yeah, being former Footsoldiers of Evil could be interesting, but how do you keep the group together? It can be done, and White Wolf has built its name on playing monsters. If a bunch of headcase vampires can work together, I would imagine a group of former minions could too.

[Midas]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

I don't understand how the morality does not matter. If I were good before' date=' I would still act good. If I were an evil, backstabbing SOB before, I'm going to continue be that way. [/quote']

 

Think you're kind of missing the point. Let's try a different example. You and the other PC's are SS troopers stranded in say, Petsamo Finland in late 1945. You're not interested in killing Russians. You're not interested in whacking your former Finnish allies, You're not interested in fighting your way across Russia to join the Japanese in Manchuria. If you could, you might be interested in trying to get back to Germany, but the odds are that the Occupation Government would lock you up as war criminals once you made it home.

 

Why in the world is your character wasting time and effort trying to backstab his fellow SS troopers?

[Orion]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

Think you're kind of missing the point. Let's try a different example. You and the other PC's are SS troopers stranded in say, Petsamo Finland in late 1945. You're not interested in killing Russians. You're not interested in whacking your former Finnish allies, You're not interested in fighting your way across Russia to join the Japanese in Manchuria. If you could, you might be interested in trying to get back to Germany, but the odds are that the Occupation Government would lock you up as war criminals once you made it home.

 

Why in the world is your character wasting time and effort trying to backstab his fellow SS troopers?

 

This is why much more detail is needed before it can be properly investigated. In my example, I was assuming I was an orc or troll, and that is how I play them. It is the fantasy hero board, after all. My orcs are very interested in their pack ranking, and will continue to work towards being top dog, even when this is not in their best long-term interest. They are kind of dumb that way. Monsters, being one-dimensional for the most part, are often played as the stupid evil type.

 

Now this SS trooper, he might not be completely evil. Maybe a son of a bitch, and disliked by every person in his squad, but not original evil. We can safely assume that the safety of the group is very important to him. It's even likely he'd sacrifice himself to save others - my orcs would never do that. But, being SS, just how much does he hate Jews, gays, gypsies, etc? Will he take stupid chances just cause them trouble? The trooper can hide within the local population if he chooses to do so. Evil minions from another dimension have a very good chance of not being able to ft in to the local population, and therefor are either always on the run, trying to take over, or confined to a ghetto/prison/small corner of the world.

[Odraude]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

I'd be down for playing a game such as this.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

This is why much more detail is needed before it can be properly investigated. In my example, I was assuming I was an orc or troll, and that is how I play them. It is the fantasy hero board, after all. My orcs are very interested in their pack ranking, and will continue to work towards being top dog, even when this is not in their best long-term interest. They are kind of dumb that way. Monsters, being one-dimensional for the most part, are often played as the stupid evil type.

 

Now this SS trooper, he might not be completely evil. Maybe a son of a bitch, and disliked by every person in his squad, but not original evil. We can safely assume that the safety of the group is very important to him. It's even likely he'd sacrifice himself to save others - my orcs would never do that. But, being SS, just how much does he hate Jews, gays, gypsies, etc? Will he take stupid chances just cause them trouble? The trooper can hide within the local population if he chooses to do so. Evil minions from another dimension have a very good chance of not being able to ft in to the local population, and therefor are either always on the run, trying to take over, or confined to a ghetto/prison/small corner of the world.

 

When survival is paramount and every NPC you meet is a potential enemy, your position on the Good/Evil continuum is not as important is it might appear.

 

A case in point is Zaknafein, father of the (in)famous Drizzt Do'Urden He is a 'Good' Drow who is constantly horrified by the Evil of the Drow around him. His solution? He serves his Evil family as an assassin so that he can kill as many Drow as possible. Though his motivations are different to those of a normal Drow his actions are quite similar.

 

This does not sound like the life a hero should lead but the fact is that a Good hero in an Evil city will behave a bit like a serial killer. And that, by D&D standards, is ok, because killing Evil beings is a Good act. (Presumably this is why Drow have to go and attack the Good races, if they just killed each other they'd eventually shift to the Good side of the continuum and then Lolth would eat them).

 

But I digress.

 

I would allow players quite a bit of freedom to decide how 'Evil' their characters were. At the end of the day they are all surrounded by a disintegrating army of monsters and hordes of alien beings so they will have to stick together even if they hate each other. They don't have to trust their companions or go out of their way to sacrifice themselves for others, they can betray each other. Of course all Minions should be aware that, if they prove too treacherous, there is nothing to stop their allies from ganging up on them and making sure that they never betray anyone else ever again.

 

Of course there are limits. I'm not that fond of 1-dimensional Evil - characters who wander around in spiky black armour saying 'Hey! Look at me, I punch babies in the face! Why? Because I'm Evil, that's why.' I prefer more believable/rounded villains that have one or more unsavoury traits e.g. cruel, heartless, greedy, power-hungry, fanatical etc. They may have positive attributes but ultimately their actions and motivations can be described as evil or monstrous. So I would not reward Minions who decided to burn a village and torture any survivors because 'hey, we're Evil, that's what we do'. Now if there was an assassin hidden in the village and burning it down might flush him out then that would be reasonable behaviour by Minion standards.

 

On the other hand I'm not looking for Minions who just want to angst about how tortured and misunderstood they are. Even an alien world is probably not ready for a Giant Spider who hates itself because its intimacy issues cause it to paralyze and drain of all bodily fluids anyone that gets close to it emotionally.

 

Different Minions would probably have different attitudes. I imagine Orcs as being brutish creatures that don't look beyond the next meal or fight, (the two things being closely linked in their minds), because the Dark Lord's control over them means that they have no control over their own destinies. In the new world an Orc is likely to still be interested in violence, food and sex. But the lure of power and perhaps even the curious idea of free will could cause these brutal creatures to discover hidden depths within themselves, or they might just find that killing things and stealing stuff on their own initiative is more rewarding.

 

A Lizardman who was effectively conscripted into the Dark Horder might have crude notions of honour e.g. accepting an enemy's surrender. A Ghoul would be perfectly friendly to everyone it meets, as long as it wasn't hungry. A Warg could be extremely vengeful and enjoy inflicting suffering on anyone or anything that crossed it, but would be capable of forming attachments to those that helped it. A Goblin might seem like the voice of reason, always pushing the idea of working together and protecting each other, but really he would sacrifice any of his companions in a heartbeat.

 

Bottom line, there are no points for being Evil or being Good. There is no sense that there is a meaningful struggle going on in which morality plays a part. While it is possible to perform acts which are good or evil, Good and Evil are not elemental forces in this world. This would be a campaign about surviving and carving out a place for yourself in a strange and hostile landscape.

[Steve]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

When putting together a party like this, you might want to think about limiting the background options to a certain subset of the Footsoldiers of Evil.

 

A party made up only of humanoids like orcs and trolls has a different feel from one made up only of undead like ghouls, wights, and vampire spawn, and a party consisting only of non-humanoid critters like wargs and nightmares would also have a certain dynamic. You could combine them all into a single group, but it might feel a little mishmashy.

[薔薇語]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

I'm with Steve on this. Just as I mentioned in my initial post. The importance of having a group that already has bonds is high, to me. Thus being of the same (or similar) race is important. Perhaps even more so, though, is coming from the same squad, etc, when they were in the war. This gives them justified reasons to actually, you know, TRUST eachother. ^^

 

La Rose.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

I'm in. When do we play?

[Badger]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

Also, dont forget you normal human as possible minions. (remember the Haradrim and Easterlings in Sauron's forces)

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

I can't say that the idea of limiting the players' options to one or two races appeals to me. Of course I'm used to weird and wonderful parties of PCs.

 

Back when I used to be a player in Bismark's games we had one party that included - A Highland Dwarf that fought with a big sword and some shamanic/druidic magic, a duellist with Priest powers, a rogue Snakeman that created flesh golems, a highly moral Necromancer who used his powers to combat the Undead, (and had bouts of madness), a Warrior-Priest and a Catgirl Assassin-Courtesan. A later party included a Fertility Priest, a Half Troll and a Centaur Knight.

 

My online Campaign features a party whose line-up has changed more often than the Avengers. Currently it includes; 2 members of a magically enhanced human subrace, one who uses Celestial and Infernal magic and the other who has given up her powers in favour of being a martial artist with a semi-sentient flying blade staff at her command; a singing Mutant whose glamour is matched only by her strength and array of musical powers; an Assassin-Priest belonging to a gothic themed race that exists to serve the god of death and balance and a reformed Vampire.

 

Previous members of the party include but are not limited to - an albino Werewolf; a Templar; a Strell, (bat-like humanoid), with psychic powers; a Half-Demon Mage-Smith; a Revenant and a Mutant Technomancer.

 

I know that this kind of thing i.e. 'I want to play a Celestial Sea-Elf with Fire Elemental Ancestors that uses martial arts, thief skills, spells from the Priest list and Force Powers' really irritates some people. But as long as the concept works I don't care how strange the character is, in fact I designed that setting to give people an exotic array of choices.

 

As for what causes the PCs to work together, it is the same thing that causes the players to work together - if they don't work together then the PCs are doomed.

 

In terms of story. As the Dark Horde fragments and its leaders descend into madness, squads are formed at random from groups of Minions that gather together around camp fires for mutual support and protection. Minion characters may have been separated from their tribe/regiment/band/pack or they may be the only survivor of said group. Leaving your assigned squad is treated by paranoid officers officers as an act of desertion and is punishable by death.

 

After that it would be up to the players to form bonds of mutual respect or simple expediency between their characters.

 

Badger, you have a point. Humans often serve as Minions and have done so since Tolkien's day. However, I am wary of allowing people to play humans because it might tempt too many people to stick with what they know and not go out on a limb with a Ghoul or Fellbat. I might allow one human but being a human would definitely be a Social Disadvantage.

[Steve]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

Well, even if you want to run with an entire party of special snowflakes, there's nothing wrong with it. It just makes more work for the GM to figure out why they'd all be together and it also requires for the players to buy into it.

[Orion]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

I can't say that the idea of limiting the players' options to one or two races appeals to me. Of course I'm used to weird and wonderful parties of PCs.

 

I'm just the opposite - allowing non-humans in the group is a very rare event for me. They exist, just not as player characters. Even then, elves and dwarves are the only possible choices - all others are just evil monsters. I'd happily do a monster campaign, but everyone would be a monster - none of the good races allowed.

 

I know that this kind of thing i.e. 'I want to play a Celestial Sea-Elf with Fire Elemental Ancestors that uses martial arts, thief skills, spells from the Priest list and Force Powers' really irritates some people. But as long as the concept works I don't care how strange the character is, in fact I designed that setting to give people an exotic array of choices.

 

As a GM, I'd never design a campaign where character mashups like that could even exist - it would never occur to me to allow it. I don't think I could GM a character like that, at least where the player and I could both be satisfied with the campaign. I think I'd have a very difficult time even playing in a group that does allow it. I have never read fiction that, and so can not imagine the setting that allows it, how the character would fit into the world, or even a character background.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Once Were Minions

 

I have never read fiction that' date=' and so can not imagine the setting that allows it, how the character would fit into the world, or even a character background.[/quote']

 

In all fairness, Celestial Fire-Sea Elves with Force powers are vanishingly rare. I was exaggerating a little there.

 

But if you ever decide to expand your knowledge of non-humans, hybrids and strange groups of protagonists in fiction then here are some suggestions.

 

The Red Wolf Conspiracy - Robert Redick

 

The Castle Series - Steph Swainston (Mostly this is very gritty low fantasy but one offshoot of the human race is explored very well in 'Above the Snowline' and the usual protagonist's drug fuelled trips to an alternate world read like a more savage and crazed version of Wonderland or Oz).

 

The Symphony of the Ages - Elizabeth Haydon

 

The Malazan Book of the Fallen - Stephen Erikson (Actually, just read this anyway. Read it. Read it now! You'll regret it if you don't).

 

Wizard Knight - Gene Wolfe

 

The Artefacts of Power and The Shadowleague - Maggie Furey

 

Perdido Street Station - China Mieville (I can't stand his stuff myself, but he writes clever and unusual stories and in this book he describes some truly alien creatures. Only read if you have a strong stomach).

 

P.S. I like the idea of calling unique and weird characters 'snowflakes'. It's elegant, yet snarky.