Bigger on the inside than on the out

[phoenix240]

It's a pretty common shtick for utra tech (or ultra magic) vehicles and structures to be bigger on the inside than they appear to be from the outside. What are some ways to represent this mechanically?

[L. Marcus]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

... A Base that is really hard to detect. Like, -6 on PER Rolls to find.

 

Or perhaps some for of Extra-Dimensional Movement, with the dimension traveled to defined as a Base ...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Perhaps buying additional Size for the base or vehicle with Invisible Power Effects?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Shrinking, Usable as Attack on everything that enters through a door or window

 

Though usually bags of holding and other pocket dimensions are done with EDM.

[Christopher]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

If EDM ist he right choice, depends on how outside forces interact with those on the inside. If your house is 1024 times bigger on the inside than the outside, is the sword someone uses to attack it 1024 times bigger for those inside?

The usual aproach (in fanatsy and sci-fi) is, that the door is a portal into a pocket dimension. So a simple EDM with Portal for the size of the door should be okay for this.

 

Edit: When they can use it as base, a fitting "Location" power for the base is a very good choice.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Just buy Shrinking on the Vehicle with Zero End + Persistent. No Usable As Attack is necessary. The vehicle's regular size determines what fits 'inside'. The Shinking defines how big it looks on the 'outside'.

 

And this is exactly the method I have used to construct Bags of Holding as well:

 

Why not use the vehicle rules?

 

Bag of Holding

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

20 STR 10 13- Lift 400.0kg; 4d6 [2]

0 DEX -30 9- OCV: 0/DCV: 0

 

10 BODY 0 11-

 

0 SPD -10 Phases: (none)

 

 

Total Characteristic Cost: -44

 

Movement:

 

Cost Powers END

120 It's Just a Bag!: Shrinking (0.0314 m tall, 0.0004 kg mass, -12 PER Rolls to perceive character, +12 DCV, takes +18" KB), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (120 Active Points)

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 120

Total Cost: 76

[phoenix240]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Get the Vehucle or Base's Size with Fully IPE?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Get the Vehucle or Base's Size with Fully IPE?

 

IPE vs. Touch will not make the Vehicle or Base actually smaller. Even if it appears to be smaller due to Invisibility or IPE on Size it will still physically take up the same amount of space as indicated by its Size.

 

Shrinking on Bases and Vehicles gets to apply to occupants and passengers for free.

[Mister E]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

I remember a build by Steve Long (?) around here somewhere that used Change Environment to alter the dimensions of spaces both inside & out of things.

 

IIRC, points of CE (probably costing 5 pts each) are bought to either double or halve target spaces.

 

Such a CE should proportionally counter AoEs, imho.

[Gary Miles]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Perhaps buying additional Size for the base or vehicle with Invisible Power Effects?

That's the way I've always done it. Nice, clean, and easy.

[Christopher]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

IPE sounds not like it should work that way. A invisible energy bolt is still there and still affecting the target.

 

Hyper Mans Shrinking approach is good for when the people on the inside stay attackable on the outside.

 

A D&D Bag of holding however, is "a portal to a extradimensional space". So I still think EDM with Gate. With the weight Limit of the EDM defining the mass you can store at once.

[dmjalund]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

the only problem with Size IPE is that it should still impose the negatives to DCV even if it is invisible.

[Christopher]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

the only problem with Size IPE is that it should still impose the negatives to DCV even if it is invisible.

And it would still weight normally and take up place normally.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

...

Hyper Mans Shrinking approach is good for when the people on the inside stay attackable on the outside.

...

 

Not sure what you mean by this. Occupants/Passengers still get the benefit of the base/vehicle's defenses.

Shrinking purchased as a power of the vehicle or base affects any passengers or occupants just as if the UAA Advantage were being used. This is the way to build a Tardis with a clear cost curve that increases as the internal size to external size ratio increases. EDM is simplier but too cheap imho for what this sfx implies.

[Christopher]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Not sure what you mean by this. Occupants/Passengers still get the benefit of the base/vehicle's defenses.

Shrinking purchased as a power of the vehicle or base affects any passengers or occupants just as if the UAA Advantage were being used. This is the way to build a Tardis with a clear cost curve that increases as the internal size to external size ratio increases. EDM is simplier but too cheap imho for what this sfx implies.

I mean:

With EDM, the gate will be somethigns small (liek the opening in the bag of holding or the door in a house). So when you use the portal in the dollhouse door, you leave the real space and enter a extradimensional space. When somebody starts atacking the dollhouse, nothing happens to you in the space.

 

With shrinking you stay in this dimension. You explore the real dollhouse, not a house in a extradimensional space. When sombody starts attacking the house you are in a lot of trouble...

 

I can't say for certain what version we have in the OP, maybe both are asked for.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

I mean:

With EDM, the gate will be somethigns small (liek the opening in the bag of holding or the door in a house). So when you use the portal in the dollhouse door, you leave the real space and enter a extradimensional space. When somebody starts atacking the dollhouse, nothing happens to you in the space.

 

Well if the 'portal' is bought as a focus it only has Body and Defenses based on the Active points of the largest power in the focus (most likely the EDM). If the dollhouse is destroyed whoever may not be destroyed but they most likely have lost their only means of returning to the regular 'game-world'.

 

In the case of the Vehicle/Bbase approach, characters passing through the door/threshold are immediately shrunk to the level of the vehicle/base. This allows the defenses of the vehicle to be defined independently from the rest of the build. Those defenses must also be breached before anything happens to the occupants. I see this as a benefit, not a drawback. The EDM approach is 1-size fits all and is not very customizable.

[dmjalund]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Not sure what you mean by this. Occupants/Passengers still get the benefit of the base/vehicle's defenses.

Shrinking purchased as a power of the vehicle or base affects any passengers or occupants just as if the UAA Advantage were being used. This is the way to build a Tardis with a clear cost curve that increases as the internal size to external size ratio increases. EDM is simplier but too cheap imho for what this sfx implies.

I would argu that people in a shrunken vehicle cannot easily leave until the vehicle returns to normal size

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

I would argu that people in a shrunken vehicle cannot easily leave until the vehicle returns to normal size

 

You are not understanding how the build works.

You start with a vehicle built normally with the final 'internal' size you want it to have.

You then buy enough Shrinking to get the final 'exterior' size you want it to have.

The Shrinking is bought with Persistent. There is no 'normal' size for it to return to.

The inside literally has more space on the inside (from the perspective of passengers) than it takes up on the outside.

[Christopher]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

The Shrinking is bought with Persistent. There is no 'normal' size for it to return to.

Inherent is also worth a look.

 

The practical part of using a vehicle/base, is that it inherently aplies a lot of his powers to his passengers (like it's armor). So you get a lot of UOO for free.

[phoenix240]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Hyper-Man's Shrinking suggestion seems to require the least handwaving. But would you have to get some form of Invsible Power Effects so that, for example, someone looking in through you Base's window wouldn't see everything inside as tiny?

[Christopher]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Hyper-Man's Shrinking suggestion seems to require the least handwaving. But would you have to get some form of Invsible Power Effects so that' date=' for example, someone looking in through you Base's window wouldn't see everything inside as tiny?[/quote']

That, or just don't have windows. Perhaps not even IPE, just a simple shape shift (Sight) could be cheaper (when the windows are only creating the illusion of everyhting being of normal size.

[Christopher]

Re: Bigger on the inside than on the out

 

Another Answer:

APG II, 27: New Power "Extradimensional Space"