APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

[Christopher]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

As fat a my personal style comes I think some of the examples are bit too restrictive such as being able to create food and drink. I can't imagine that being unbalancing in most games and its a bit more granular and less kludgy than a complicated LS build for feeding others or a ordinary house but I wuoldn't charge a character to have a house or to go get his friends some burgers either.

LS: Reduced Eating, total (3 Base Points), UOO (One target, +1/4), 1 Fuelcharge lasting 1 Day +0. 4 AP/RC

 

I guess the difference is that your house (part of your lifestyle) is on a fixed place, andyour burgers aren't delivered to "deep in the jungle", the vacuum of space, alternate dimension and other places where you might have a hard time finding a restaurant.

 

But yes' date=' if you interpret the guidelines as rigidly as possible (The Power can't do anything another Power could) then it is almost worthless since there is alternate way to purchase almost anything (thought it may not be nessecarily better). [/quote']

I guess he wanted to make certain that it is not abused by power games to get a 12d6 normal attack, 12d6 KA, Life Support and a lot of other Stuff for free. The power was explicitly desinged to fill these really rare gaps where you just wanted to summon a toaster...

If he hadn't done it this way, we already had somebody saying: Yay, i just invest the 20 base point and now get wealth, a house, and as many burgers as I want to for free.

 

Using it for weapons when they don't cost points (but money) is an idea, but can quickly go into the "create valuable objects to get wealth for free". So that only works as long as the players understand it that way.

[megaplayboy]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Well, I suppose a Galaxar could use Create Objects to make a planet(oid) for, say, a randomly selected assemblage of heroes and villains to gather, promising that if they defeat their enemies, all they desire will be theirs.

 

Naah, too hokey. No comic book editor would ever approve a trite, hackneyed setup like that.

[phoenix240]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

LS: Reduced Eating, total (3 Base Points), UOO (One target, +1/4), 1 Fuelcharge lasting 1 Day +0. 4 AP/RC

 

Exactly. That's too many hoops to jump through to create, oh a burger and fries for a meal for Super Ronald, IMO. It gets worse if you want to create food for more than one person, preserve said food, etc. Create Object seems like a simpler and more intuitive way to do it. And its hardly game breaking to let it be used that way.

 

I guess the difference is that your house (part of your lifestyle) is on a fixed place, andyour burgers aren't delivered to "deep in the jungle", the vacuum of space, alternate dimension and other places where you might have a hard time finding a restaurant.

 

What there's no resteraunts or take out where you live?

 

But you're paying for a Superpower. I wouldn't charge a character points to take along enough food to eat with. For that matter, in most superhero games it might not even come up so I don't see a big deal in letting Create Object handle it.

 

I guess he wanted to make certain that it is not abused by power games to get a 12d6 normal attack, 12d6 KA, Life Support and a lot of other Stuff for free. The power was explicitly desinged to fill these really rare gaps where you just wanted to summon a toaster...

If he hadn't done it this way, we already had somebody saying: Yay, i just invest the 20 base point and now get wealth, a house, and as many burgers as I want to for free.

 

Using it for weapons when they don't cost points (but money) is an idea, but can quickly go into the "create valuable objects to get wealth for free". So that only works as long as the players understand it that way.

 

I just think he went a little heavy on the limitations. In games were money isn't the focus I'd like people create valuable objects. They'd still have to trade or barter with them or at least sell them (and if they don't have the skills they're going to get hosed). It doesn't come with the associated and assumed benefits of the Wealth Perk (credit rating, the "lifestyle", some small reputation, etc). Someone pulling money out of thin air is going to attract attention if they're too blatant, etc.

 

It also depends on the how the power is contructed. Being able to create a diamond a day or that only lasts an hour is more acceptable than being able to make a mountain of 100 dollar bills (usually). I its really a GM's discretion Power. If you're incredibly strict about it you can't make anything since at least theoretically you can smack someone with it or throw it at them (HTH and EB respectively).

[phoenix240]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Well, I suppose a Galaxar could use Create Objects to make a planet(oid) for, say, a randomly selected assemblage of heroes and villains to gather, promising that if they defeat their enemies, all they desire will be theirs.

 

Naah, too hokey. No comic book editor would ever approve a trite, hackneyed setup like that.

 

Pfft, as if...

 

Edit: Actually, I think that's not possible given the stated restrictions. It could/would have be to built as a huge Base.

 

Edit: Or a tiny one with ALLOT of grounds. I remember there's a table for that (Dyson Sphere, ring worlds, etc, as Bases) in Star Hero.

[Susano]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Well, I suppose a Galaxar could use Create Objects to make a planet(oid) for, say, a randomly selected assemblage of heroes and villains to gather, promising that if they defeat their enemies, all they desire will be theirs.

 

Naah, too hokey. No comic book editor would ever approve a trite, hackneyed setup like that.

 

Yeah, why you'd run this scenario us beyond me.

[phoenix240]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Any other opinions on Social Combat?

[Christopher]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Exactly. That's too many hoops to jump through to create, oh a burger and fries for a meal for Super Ronald, IMO. It gets worse if you want to create food for more than one person, preserve said food, etc. Create Object seems like a simpler and more intuitive way to do it. And its hardly game breaking to let it be used that way.

[...]

What there's no resteraunts or take out where you live?

 

But you're paying for a Superpower. I wouldn't charge a character points to take along enough food to eat with. For that matter, in most superhero games it might not even come up so I don't see a big deal in letting Create Object handle it.

That are all situations in wich the heroes do not have to worry about food. Creating Food (either writeup), LS: Diminished Eating (Plain Power) and Survival to sustain yourself is only of relevance if the adventure requires it.

That's why I listed place you visit in your adventure life, where you usually not life and that don't usually feature restaurants.

 

I just think he went a little heavy on the limitations. In games were money isn't the focus I'd like people create valuable objects. They'd still have to trade or barter with them or at least sell them (and if they don't have the skills they're going to get hosed). It doesn't come with the associated and assumed benefits of the Wealth Perk (credit rating, the "lifestyle", some small reputation, etc). Someone pulling money out of thin air is going to attract attention if they're too blatant, etc.

 

It also depends on the how the power is contructed. Being able to create a diamond a day or that only lasts an hour is more acceptable than being able to make a mountain of 100 dollar bills (usually). I its really a GM's discretion Power. If you're incredibly strict about it you can't make anything since at least theoretically you can smack someone with it or throw it at them (HTH and EB respectively).

As I pointed out, you can use those objects under the Improvised Weapon Rule. If you take a latern post from the street or summon one from thin air makes no difference. Of course the normal limits for Improvised Weapons apply (maximum Damage, object takes the Damage). It won't be cheap to make something that adds to a 60 STR and survives the first hit...

 

Pfft, as if...

 

Edit: Actually, I think that's not possible given the stated restrictions. It could/would have be to built as a huge Base.

 

Edit: Or a tiny one with ALLOT of grounds. I remember there's a table for that (Dyson Sphere, ring worlds, etc, as Bases) in Star Hero.

As base covers only the part that is furbished/useable I think it might be possible. Just need the Body and PD and ED of a Planet.

 

Of course the question is: Why would you even want to stat that planet out?

[megaplayboy]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

I don't think you'd want to, but Object Creation would be an excellent substitute explanation to replace the normal GM handwaving, when players ask how the Galaxar did that.

[Christopher]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

I don't think you'd want to' date=' but Object Creation would be an excellent substitute explanation to replace the normal GM handwaving, when players ask how the Galaxar did that.[/quote']

As I understand it Galaxar is just powerfull enough to do it. Why do your players ask "how" he/she did it. When a space god needs a planet he just makes one/refurbishes one to suite his needs.

 

Anybody that can make a planet is most likely waaay beyond the powerlevel of your pc's anyway.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

I don't think you'd want to' date=' but Object Creation would be an excellent substitute explanation to replace the normal GM handwaving, when players ask how the Galaxar did that.[/quote']

 

As I understand it Galaxar is just powerfull enough to do it. Why do your players ask "how" he/she did it. When a space god needs a planet he just makes one/refurbishes one to suite his needs.

 

Anybody that can make a planet is most likely waaay beyond the powerlevel of your pc's anyway.

 

By statting out the ability to make a planet, we show just how powerful Galaxar is, don't we? And if you have the points to spare, you too can create a planetoid.

[Ragitsu]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

There are RPGs where you can play gods, so I don't thinking wanting to stat/play a god is outlandish.

[megaplayboy]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

There are RPGs where you can play gods' date=' so I don't thinking wanting to stat/play a god is outlandish.[/quote']

 

Heck, gods have been statted out before for Hero System(Mythic Greece, Mythic Egypt, Tezcatlipoca, Thor), and Steve's coming out with Mythic Hero in the not too distant future, so I think it's probably reasonable to have that kind of flexibility in a system. Blowing up planets, creating new worlds, stopping time, altering probability, changing the weather on a large scale, summoning giant monsters--all of this stuff is pretty standard epic/high-end genre fiction stuff, be it sci-fi, anime, epic high fantasy, or cosmic/mythological superheroes.

[Ragitsu]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Heck' date=' gods have been statted out before for Hero System(Mythic Greece, Mythic Egypt, Tezcatlipoca, Thor), and Steve's coming out with Mythic Hero in the not too distant future, so I think it's probably reasonable to have that kind of flexibility in a system. Blowing up planets, creating new worlds, stopping time, altering probability, changing the weather on a large scale, summoning giant monsters--all of this stuff is pretty standard epic/high-end genre fiction stuff, be it sci-fi, anime, epic high fantasy, or cosmic/mythological superheroes.[/quote']

 

If you think about it, fully powered Silver Age Hal Jordan is pretty much a god.

[megaplayboy]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

If you think about it' date=' fully powered Silver Age Hal Jordan is pretty much a god.[/quote']

 

I happen to believe almost any power level is "playable", provided you make sure the characters aren't actually invincible. You can give them vulnerabilities, ways to constrain their powers or situations where their powers don't work or are weaker, things they absolutely cannot do, psychological constraints limiting the full use of their abilities, and so forth. You can also present them with situations and challenges that require more than brute force to resolve.

[Ragitsu]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

You can also present them with situations and challenges that require more than brute force to resolve.

 

The reverse ("require more than outside manipulation") could very well be true if the "overpowered" character(s) are mentalists or have super high social Skills.

[Christopher]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

By statting out the ability to make a planet' date=' we show just how powerful Galaxar is, don't we? And if you have the points to spare, you too can create a planetoid.[/quote']

I'll try a lazy aproach:

10 STR = 100 kg (weight of a Person)

305 STR = Very large Asteroid

 

We know that every level of densitiy increase doubles your weight, gives you +5 STR (so you can carry your extra weight), +1 PD, +1 ED, -2 KB.

Size Incrase gives you the effects of three densitiy increases (8 times the Volume) and: +5 CON, +3 BODY, +6 STUN

I will asume that each level DE is actually +1 BODY and +2 STUN and size only gives CON.

 

We know for certain that a Very Large Asteroid has (305-10)/5 = 59 Levels of Increase Density.

Therefore it should have 61 PD, 61 ED and 61 BODY at least (asuming objecst start a 2 Body).

That would be a whopin 20 + 177 for the Defenses + 59 for the Body (ignoring the 1 Body to make it full +60) = 256 Base Poins for a object the wieght of a large asteroid but human size.

 

The earth is valued as 76 Level of DE, so 78 PD/ED/BODY.

So: 20 + 288 Defenses + 78 Body = 326 Base Points. Actually placing the ecosystem would be more difficulty and perhaps require both +10 adders for more complexity.

[phoenix240]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Heck, if your GM allows the Megascale option for Object Creation making a planet(oid) might not even be that expensive. It might be a somewhat fragile one though.

 

BTW: Who's Galaxar?

[Ice9]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

The guidelines sound a little strict. My guideline for making objects with Transform has been "anything you could buy with money". So if we're playing Fantasy HERO, and you can buy swords with money, then you can conjure swords with Transform. If we're playing Champions, then you need to buy a HKA. Personally, I think the same guideline would be suitable for Create Object.

[Ragitsu]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Any update regarding APG II's availability on other web stores?

[gojira]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

I'm gonna guess based on Darren's previous comment that hiding your question here isn't the best idea. Did you try the Company Questions forum?

[Ragitsu]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

I did not hide my question.

[Steve Long]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Ragitsu -- you're not literally hiding it, but putting a question intended for Darren or myself on the fifth page of a thread we may or may not be reading generally means we probably won't see it, and thus can answer it. Thus in effect you're "hiding" it from us. If you have questions about the availability of specific books, the best place to ask is typically Company Questions, where we're far more likely to see the question.

[Ragitsu]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Oh. Well, since you guys are already here, when do you think it'll show up on other sites?

[Christopher]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Oh. Well' date=' since you guys are already here, when do you think it'll show up on other sites?[/quote']

I think he just told you:

"Post it in the right forum. We don't have time to point each other to every question we stumble about because we have a few more books to write".