APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

[megaplayboy]

So, I just d/l'd the pdf of the Advanced Players Guide, Vol. II. Have skimmed it and am slowly processing the import of the contents. Initial thoughts:

--like the extended STR chart

--like some of the suggestions for existing powers

--Extradimensional Space--cool! A place for my stuff!

--Probability Alteration--nice to see something like this quantified, although the abuse potential of this power is nigh-incalculable(you could get one re-roll per turn(+3 advantage), re-rolled until you get a better result than the original roll(+2), at 0 END(+1/2), for a total of 33 active points).

--Time Stop--for a mere 200 points(well within the capabilities of a Galaxar or Terrestrial Deity), you can stop time. I'd say there's infinite potential for abuse, except at the price point it's unlikely to happen. You do have the option of stopping time in a smaller zone of effect than the whole universe, though.

--Replay--you can reverse time and "replay" the events of the last segment/turn/etc.--again, potential for abuse, and GMs may not want to replay a whole turn of combat, but it's nice to know you can simulate such an ability

--Object Creation--a cool ability and a nice replacement for "Transform Air into Objects". I suspect there will be a lot of discussion about the parameters of what can and cannot be created, though the book is fairly elaborate about some of what cannot be done

--alternate skill resolution--good

--mental combat--decent, still think the mental powers rules need an overhaul

--social combat--interesting, I think I'll have to see how this works in action to make a judgment

the only downer was the rules on destroying large objects--adequate, but could have used a list of examples--how much Body does the galaxy or universe have(or a skyscraper, for that matter)?(If some megavillain has a transform attack, that might be important).

Steve, any chance of getting the APG I&II stuff turned into an HD Character Pack, so we have access to all these options in Hero Designer? Otherwise it makes it a little bit harder to integrate.

[Ragitsu]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Another book I have to get? You guys are killing me!

[phoenix240]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Hey, Com's back

 

Sorta.

[Steve Long]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Steve, any chance of getting the APG I&II stuff turned into an HD Character Pack, so we have access to all these options in Hero Designer? Otherwise it makes it a little bit harder to integrate.

 

Well, it's not a Character Pack per se, since there are no characters, vehicles, spells, gadgets, etc. for us to enter into HD and sell. In terms of integrating new rules into HD, that requires Dan to create an update, and we leave it up to him to decide when and how best to create updates.

[Steve Long]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

You guys are killing me!

 

But with coolness. Killing you with coolness.

[djkester]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

But with coolness. Killing you with coolness.

 

Its cool you say? Well then I must buy it.

[Ragitsu]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

But with coolness. Killing you with coolness.

 

Any chance of killing me with a hard copy in the near-future ?

[Steve]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Well' date=' it's not a Character Pack per se, since there are no characters, vehicles, spells, gadgets, etc. for us to enter into HD and sell. In terms of integrating new rules into HD, that requires Dan to create an update, and we leave it up to him to decide when and how best to create updates.[/quote']

 

That's understandable. What is Dan's status currently? When will he resume work on HD?

[megaplayboy]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Well' date=' it's not a Character Pack per se, since there are no characters, vehicles, spells, gadgets, etc. for us to enter into HD and sell. In terms of integrating new rules into HD, that requires Dan to create an update, and we leave it up to him to decide when and how best to create updates.[/quote']

 

Well, true enough, but there was a set of martial arts templates for HSMA, and between the two books there's several new powers, plus new advantages and limitations, and variations on existing powers. It'd certainly be nice to be able, for example, to choose what "version" of Damage Reduction to use, and whether to allow it up to 100%, in HD. Hopefully it will get added in to some future update.

[phoenix240]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Does anyone else think a modified version of the new Entangle Advantage: Reduces Strength that worked versus Ego for mental Entangles might be a good way to model a Ecstasy weapon ?

 

How much a Limitation might it be worth for Time Stop if the character's ability to affect the frozen world was limited? Say they could only move things around not break or injure them or even couldn't move or alter anything so even closed doors would be impenetrable barriers?

[Christopher]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

How much a Limitation might it be worth for Time Stop if the character's ability to affect the frozen world was limited? Say they could only move things around not break or injure them or even couldn't move or alter anything so even closed doors would be impenetrable barriers?

Would build that as a EDM: To a dimension where times does not flow but he can't affect anything and back home. At the relative postions respectively.

 

Tempus Stasis:

Extradimensional Movement to any point in the time Stop Dimension relative to his normal postion. (20+5 any position -3 only relative Postions = 22); Costs Endurance to Maintain, or is automatically cast back into "normal" spacetime (-1/2); 15 Real Cost

[phoenix240]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

The character can do things just not directly. He can say, freeze time and explore a fortified facility at his leisure with in certain limits but can't change anything. So timing would be an issue. I'd actually be more comfortable allowing something like that as lmited Time Stop than EDM to "A dimension exactly like this one except time doesn't flow and back again to the same point in time when you left". Perhaps its semantic but it feels less kludgy to me.

[Christopher]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

The character can do things just not directly. He can say' date=' freeze time and explore a fortified facility at his leisure with in certain limits but can't change anything. So timing would be an issue. I'd actually be more comfortable allowing something like that as lmited Time Stop than EDM to "A dimension exactly like this one except time doesn't flow and back again to the same point in time when you left". Perhaps its semantic but it feels less kludgy to me.[/quote']

Depends. When he can't open doors, he can't explore the fortress.

And with the 20 END/Phase for Time Stop I doubt he would get far either way....

[phoenix240]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

The Psychic Limitation on Time Stop might be a good way to simulate that freeze a crowd trick that some powerful Telepath's can pull off. Might have to handwave a few things like the defenses or apply some other modifiers.

[phoenix240]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Depends. When he can't open doors, he can't explore the fortress.

And with the 20 END/Phase for Time Stop I doubt he would get far either way....

 

That's way I said timing applies. You can drop it breifly, open a door and put it back up and put it back up. It's expensive ability, but IMO, it should be. You can work about Endurance costs in different ways. End reserves are cheap or Charges or Reduced Endurance if you have points to burn. I like it better than futzing with EDM which feels cheesy and seems a little cheap for the effect.

[Ragitsu]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

But, yeah, when's the hard copy version going to be released?

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

That's way I said timing applies. You can drop it breifly' date=' open a door and put it back up and put it back up. It's expensive ability, but IMO, it should be. You can work about Endurance costs in different ways. End reserves are cheap or Charges or Reduced Endurance if you have points to burn. I like it better than futzing with EDM which feels cheesy and seems a little cheap for the effect.[/quote']

 

How about calling it Dimensional movement? Stopping time (but still moving) means the character is staying in his own dimension, but using a different dimensional axis instead of time, time being the fourth of a disputed 10 or 11 dimensions our own universe consists of, at least according to most Quantum physicists.

[Christopher]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

That's way I said timing applies. You can drop it breifly' date=' open a door and put it back up and put it back up. It's expensive ability, but IMO, it should be. You can work about Endurance costs in different ways. End reserves are cheap or Charges or Reduced Endurance if you have points to burn. I like it better than futzing with EDM which feels cheesy and seems a little cheap for the effect.[/quote']

200 Base Cost + 0 END = 300 Active Points.

 

How about EDM to the Dimension of no time flow (a black void, not a frozen copy) + Transdimension for the Senses?

[phoenix240]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Object Creation and Extra Dimensional Spaces look like good additions They fill gaps in the system that others abilities plugged poorly (IMO) and are generic enough that that work in an effects based system. I have a couple of characters that can make use of them already.

[Susano]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

I'm already using the Replay and Time Stop powers for a time-shifting character in my Well of the Worlds game.

[Escafarc]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Object Creation and Extra Dimensional Spaces look like good additions They fill gaps in the system that others abilities plugged poorly (IMO) and are generic enough that that work in an effects based system. I have a couple of characters that can make use of them already.

 

They both are easy to slide into my Fantasy HERO game but Object Creation just doesn't feel right for my Champions Campaign so I'm holding off on it for the time being.

[Andrew Cermak]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

The potential implications of Time Stop are intriguing. If one isn't afraid to play loose with the warning about limitations that "partly" stop time, it can become the basis for a suite of Reality Manipulation abilities.

 

Let's say a bad guy gets a hold of a Cosmic Cube, and decides to start playing with things.

 

Maybe he's a Luddite, and decides to bend physics so that electronics everywhere in Reality stop working. Easy: Time Stop, Only vs. Electronics. Until the Cube's END Reserve runs out, electronics everywhere break. Technically they just halt whatever they were doing and can't be made to start up again, but for SFX purposes we can say they shut off, only to restart when the END runs out.

 

Maybe he decides to play with space a little bit, and doubles the distance between everything and everything else. Easy: Time Stop, Slow Time (-2), Only affects Motion. Until the END runs out, it now takes twice as long to move from any point A to any point B.

 

Or he could just as easily decide that Zeno had the right idea, and make motion impossible by removing the Slow Time limitation. People would still be aware, fires would continue to burn, etc, but no one would be able to move even an inch.

 

Maybe he's a ultra-nihilist and wants to end it all, himself included. Easy: Time Stop, No Personal Immunity. Reality effectively ceases to exist, for anyone. Better hope he couldn't afford to make it 0 END, Persistent!

 

Even more than all that, though, it at least provides a starting point for pricing other powers that affect everyone, everywhere, in significant ways. If it's 200 points to paralyze everyone, everywhere, excluding oneself, how much should it be to move them, or shrink them, or turn them blue?

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

--Time Stop--for a mere 200 points(well within the capabilities of a Galaxar or Terrestrial Deity)' date=' you can stop time.[/quote']

 

I'm not so sure about the latter. Published builds for Kigatilik, Tezcatlipoca, and higher-dimensional godlike beings such as Skarn and Tyrannon tend to fall a bit short of that for their VPP Control Costs. I can see the major deities of religions with adherents in the 9 or 10 figure range (like Yahweh, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva) fielding 200 Active Point powers on the fly, but there probably aren't many that can manage feats of that scope.

[Sean Waters]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

Question: is AGP2 going to be published in hard copy or remain a .pdf? If it is going to be a hard copy can you take advantage of any bundling discount if you buy the .pdf now and get the hard copy later, or am I beter off waiting until it gets printed and ordering then?

[Christopher]

Re: APG II Commentary/Discussion thread

 

I'm not so sure about the latter. Published builds for Kigatilik' date=' Tezcatlipoca, and higher-dimensional godlike beings such as Skarn and Tyrannon tend to fall a bit short of that for their VPP Control Costs. I can see the major deities of religions with adherents in the 9 or 10 figure range (like Yahweh, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva) fielding 200 Active Point powers on the fly, but there probably aren't many that can manage feats of that scope.[/quote']

I think there is one source (the Champiosn Rulebook?) that notes that the deities in a modern setting are around 2000 point's. And they were way more powerfull when it was their time...