Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

[Christopher]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

While I agree, I think this varies from game to game.

 

It seems many GM's are reluctant to allow extraordinary results to be attained using extraordinary skills, so the player who wants more control over the ability to succeed with cinematically spectacular results is motivated to build "limited mind control" rather than "extreme interaction skills". The same GM who won't allow a 28- Charm roll to seduce a highly unlikely target seems OK with limited Mind Control (requiring, say, 5 minutes' time and the ability to converse with the target) achieving the desired result.

I honestly have problems wih the Idea of anything but the mechanically defined MC controlling a character.

 

I think some of this tendency comes from Skill effects being relatively vague compared to Power effects which often offer more defined and granular results with more guidelines and often examples. The Ultimate Skill helps in this department but the not everyone has it and the difference is still noteworthy' date=' IMO.[/quote']

It would help to define the "lower ceiling". The Level of Mind Controll Effect Interaction Skills, can archieve and what penalty you get to archieve a certain level (so you have to use extra time to make EGO+30/-10 Roll).

 

Unless limited to be slower' date=' less precise and less reliable. That carries the problem that they quickly become less expensive than the relevant skill. [/quote']

Yes, I personally regard the power you gave as slightly unbalanced. Mainly because of the overpowered maximum effect. Anything that can pull of a EGO+50 against a Strong EGO traget has that for me.

 

One workaround is defining the power as working vs. PRE instead of EGO' date=' and then its "visibility" would be noticeable to people who are "socially attuned", that is, people with the relevant interaction skills would be able to detect a "super skill" at work. I'll try to suggest this at some point in the ESSE thread.[/quote']

That could be done by just defining a "second set" of mental powers. You basically get the normal Mental powers (inlcuding Mental Awareness) and you get the Social Mental Powers (inlcuding Social Awareness).

[Vondy]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

One "problem" with Powers as Skills is that they have some system baggage that has to be considered (even if its just handwaved) like Mental Powers breakout rolls' date=' having a "signature" and being visible to mental awareness and blocked/reduced by Mental Defense which may not make sense with some SFX. "Why does her Psi scrambling bonnet make her more resistance to certain cinematically potent but completely non psionic Skills?"[/quote']

 

I see this as being a stylistic and experience issue more than a "problem." With some forethought and clear communication between GM and player about how the "super-skill" is supposed to work it shouldn't pose any such conundrums. Also, there are two schools of thought about how to apply SFX in the adjudication of results. There are hard, point-crunching mechanics who would say the SFX shouldn't limit or benefit the power. And there are those who believe SFX is a critical part of adjudicating results. If, like me, you fall in the second camp, the fact that the SFX for the mental defense is 'psionics' will automatically mean it doesn't impact non-psionic skill uses.

[Vondy]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

Some campaigns also impose skills caps in general.

 

If a fantasy campaign has a 14- skill roll cap, then taking super-skills built as powers becomes the only option to simulate cinematic effects.

 

Two simple solutions:

 

Have a separate cap for "super-skills" than regular skills.

 

OR

 

Allow people to purchase skills levels for specific super-skill effects beyond the cap while keeping the base skill lower.

 

Were it me, I'd go with #2.

[Christopher]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

Allow people to purchase skills levels for specific super-skill effects beyond the cap while keeping the base skill lower.

 

Were it me, I'd go with #2.

The game list the GM-Option to allow PSL to counter Skill Roll penalties. So PSL for the Difficult Level could do the trick.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

I honestly have problems wih the Idea of anything but the mechanically defined MC controlling a character.

 

Mind Control is a mechanical construct to enable one character to control another character.

 

Interaction skills are mechanical constructs to enable one character to influence another character.

 

Calling one mechanic a power and the other a skill does not change the fact that both are both mechanics whose purpose is to allow one character to cause another character to take actions that the player of that character (and, perhaps, the character himself) would initially prefer that character not take.

 

It would help to define the "lower ceiling". The Level of Mind Controll Effect Interaction Skills' date=' can archieve and what penalty you get to archieve a certain level (so you have to use extra time to make EGO+30/-10 Roll).[/quote']

 

You need extra time to have a decent chance of making an otherwise very difficult skill roll as well.

 

Yes' date=' I personally regard the power you gave as slightly unbalanced. Mainly because of the overpowered maximum effect. Anything that can pull of a EGO+50 against a Strong EGO traget has that for me.[/quote']

 

I find it a very potent power that could easily be unbalanced in many games. But in a dungeon crawl focused game, it would be utterly useless (as would many interaction skills).

 

That could be done by just defining a "second set" of mental powers. You basically get the normal Mental powers (inlcuding Mental Awareness) and you get the Social Mental Powers (inlcuding Social Awareness).

 

It could also be done by defining "vs PRE" under the AVAD and AVACV rules. That seems a lot easier than a parallel system.

 

Two simple solutions:

 

Have a separate cap for "super-skills" than regular skills.

 

OR

 

Allow people to purchase skills levels for specific super-skill effects beyond the cap while keeping the base skill lower.

 

Were it me, I'd go with #2.

 

I think the bigger issue arises where the GM essentially does not want that result. Christopher, for example, cites a problem with being able to reliably influence a target with a very high EGO. If that is an issue for the GM, I think that should simply state, up front, that such results will not be permitted in this game. It does not matter whether you bring me a character with Telepathy, Clairsentience or an obscene deduction roll for a game focused on investigation of mysteries - any power, skill, talent, whatever that removes the challenge of investigating the mysteries invalidates the planned game, and will be vetoed. Similarly, if my game relies on characters not being able to reliably influence the decisions made by other characters, the mechanic by which that influence is provided is irrelevant - the ability will be denied.

 

But I should say that up front - that is, tell the player the concept he wants is not suitable for this game. I should not let a player build a character designed around a concept of influencing other characters and then neuter that character's efforts to fulfill the role he was designed to play, frustrating the player in the process. If the player has expressed a desire to play a character who can easily influence the choices of other characters, and I do not reject that concept outright, then the onus is now on me to ensure that the mechanics with which the character is built will achieve the desired results in my game - whether those mechanics are high interaction skills, superskill powers or some other construct is beside the point.

[Christopher]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

Mind Control is a mechanical construct to enable one character to control another character.

 

Interaction skills are mechanical constructs to enable one character to influence another character.

 

Calling one mechanic a power and the other a skill does not change the fact that both are both mechanics whose purpose is to allow one character to cause another character to take actions that the player of that character (and, perhaps, the character himself) would initially prefer that character not take.

The same could be said about Steahlt/Concealment and Invisibility. Disguise/Mimicry and Shape Shift. Criminology/Tracking and Retro-Clairsentience. Yet in each of theses cases the skill is inferior to the power without Limitations.

It is not far fetched to asume the same for Interaction Skills and Mind Controll.

 

You need extra time to have a decent chance of making an otherwise very difficult skill roll as well.

Yes. That's why I said it would perhaps if we had a list:

EGO+10 equals a Interaction Skill Roll with -x

 

That way we had something to work with, a common denominator to how much extra time/skill roll/positive modifiers you need to reliably archieve a result similar to EGO+X with a skill roll.

The same way we have a common denominator about what a EGO+50 Result means with Mind Controll.

 

It could also be done by defining "vs PRE" under the AVAD and AVACV rules. That seems a lot easier than a parallel system.

That would neither make it invisible to Mental Awareness nor visible to "Social Awareness" or define such a Sense.

[Lucius]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

That would neither make it invisible to Mental Awareness nor visible to "Social Awareness" or define such a Sense.

 

If a truth serum or hallucinatory drug is bought Based on CON, would you say Mental Awareness percieves the use of a hypodermic full of such substance?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Psychotropic Palindromedary

[Christopher]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

If a truth serum or hallucinatory drug is bought Based on CON' date=' would you say Mental Awareness percieves the use of a hypodermic full of such substance?[/quote']

I would say the obviousness to Mental Awareness is thrown out, as it becomes a normal physical attack power (inlcuding obviouness to normal senses, attack values, defenses, range and CV's).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

That would neither make it invisible to Mental Awareness nor visible to "Social Awareness" or define such a Sense.

 

If a truth serum or hallucinatory drug is bought Based on CON' date=' would you say Mental Awareness percieves the use of a hypodermic full of such substance?[/quote']

 

I would say the obviousness to Mental Awareness is thrown out' date=' as it becomes a normal physical attack power (inlcuding obviouness to normal senses, attack values, defenses, range and CV's).[/quote']

 

Then how is it more difficult to say "Attacks based on PRE are detected by this new Talent I added, Social Awareness, instead of Mental Awareness"?

[Vondy]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

Then how is it more difficult to say "Attacks based on PRE are detected by this new Talent I added' date=' Social Awareness, instead of Mental Awareness"?[/quote']

 

I generally use a skill entitled Human Perception.

[James Gillen]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

I would say the obviousness to Mental Awareness is thrown out' date=' as it becomes a normal physical attack power (inlcuding obviouness to normal senses, attack values, defenses, range and CV's).[/quote']

 

Especially since in 6E you don't get Limitation points for a (formerly) Mental Power that doesn't provide Mental Awareness.

 

JG

[Christopher]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

Then how is it more difficult to say "Attacks based on PRE are detected by this new Talent I added' date=' Social Awareness, instead of Mental Awareness"?[/quote']

That would still have to be a general convention in the game (or nobody knows it exists, nobody takes the talent/sense). So in the end you just create a seperate set of mental power through the backdoor. So you end up where you said you would end up.

 

Especially since in 6E you don't get Limitation points for a (formerly) Mental Power that doesn't provide Mental Awareness.

I do not understand what you try to say here, so just give you my point of view:

Mental Awareness is a Enchanced Sense on 6E1 211.

Mental powers are by default invisible to normal Senses, but obvious when in use to Mental Awareness (wich can be bought of using a +1/4 IPE Advantage) and Fully Obvious to the target (must be bought of seperately or by archieving the +20 Result).

A Mental Power with "based on Con", is not considered a Mental Power anymore. It simply looses the Mental Power Classification and is handeled by the Rules of it's other categories (for most part: Attack Power).

[Lucius]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

I do not understand what you try to say here

 

That's because he's referencing previous editions.

 

At one time, you could get Mental Awareness for free by taking any Mental Power. If you had a Mental Power that did not bestow Mental Awareness you could take a -1/4 Limitation for it. You could also buy Mental Awareness by itself for an otherwise non-psychic character.

 

The reasons this approach was abandoned are left as an exercise for the reader.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Awareness

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

I'll just tack "provides no mental awareness" on a 75 AP multipower suite of mental powers for -1/4, then spend 3 points on "Mental Awareness"

 

I think the 6e aproach is also much more consistent with getting what you pay for, and de-linking abilities, but saving 15 points for a limitation that removes a 3 point power was never a good structure.

[Christopher]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

I'll just tack "provides no mental awareness" on a 75 AP multipower suite of mental powers for -1/4' date=' then spend 3 points on "Mental Awareness"[/quote']

This would be an obvious atempt to cheat the rule/define a limitation in a way that it does not limits. And while I do not know 5E, I think it too contained a rule like this one from 6E: "A limitation that does not limtis the character, is not worth any (saved) points."

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

And therein lies the problem with having mental powers provide free mental awareness. I don't have to buy "mental awareness", for that matter. I can buy a Sense that Detects mental powers in some other way. If your Mental Power had a base cost more than 17, you saved more than three points by sacrificing the three point ability bundled into all mental powers. Good riddance to that bundling. If you want to have mental powers, buy mental powers. If you want to perceive them in use, buy Mental Awareness. If you want both, buy both.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

Hmmm... she's not really a Mind In The Gutter or Easy sort, which is part of why she sublimates her libido into crimefighting. She's a Four-Color Hero "Good Girl" in a modern setting, so she'd really like to have a steady boyfriend but is also afraid of hurting a normal human.

 

My thinking is when she gets to feeling "edgy" she'll go looking for some VIPER agents or a supervillain to beat up.

 

If she is sublimating effectively then this is not a complication in itself, but the reasoning behind other complications. Something like: Enraged when successfully resisting sexual advances.

[Steve]

Re: Effects of "Heightened Libido"?

 

If she is sublimating effectively then this is not a complication in itself' date=' but the reasoning behind other complications. Something like: Enraged when successfully resisting sexual advances.[/quote']

 

This is pretty much my thinking. If you check out my America Woman posting in the Champions forum, that is the character in question. I didn't give her an Enraged though. She's more in control of herself, but her psychs do make her more reactionary to lewd comments.