something from nothing

[LordGhee]

is this a way to get a photon drive

 

 

http://dvice.com/archives/2011/11/physicists-mana.php

 

Lord Ghee

[Zeropoint]

Re: something from nothing

 

As I understand it, the energy contained in the emitted photons is drained from the mirror, so there's no violation of conservation of energy. Even if it's more efficient than a laser, you'd still need fantastically huge amounts of power to get any meaningful thrust.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: something from nothing

 

Conservation of Momentum: it's not just a good idea, it's the Law!

[Christopher]

Re: something from nothing

 

As I understand it' date=' the energy contained in the emitted photons is drained from the mirror, so there's no violation of conservation of energy. Even if it's more efficient than a laser, you'd still need fantastically huge amounts of power to get any meaningful thrust.[/quote']

Not quite how I read it:

Virtual Photons where absorbed by the mirror. The mirror then expelled real photons.

 

The energy of the released real photons came from the virtual photons, so this is a virtual photon/real photon coverter.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: something from nothing

 

From the article:

 

The energy of these virtual photons then gets absorbed by the mirror, which then spits the energy back out, but as real photons.

 

How much energy does the mirror absorb from a virtual photon?

 

How much does it lose from spitting out a real one?

 

If there isn't a net loss of energy here, something's fishy.

 

I don't believe in "free energy" no matter how hard all kids watching at home clap their hands.

[LordGhee]

Re: something from nothing

 

"clap" "clap"

 

I believe in free photon, I believe in free photons.

 

with this we can build a warbler magnetic wave photon sub light drive and rule the sky!!!

[Christopher]

Re: something from nothing

 

How much energy does the mirror absorb from a virtual photon?

 

How much does it lose from spitting out a real one?

 

If there isn't a net loss of energy here, something's fishy.

 

I don't believe in "free energy" no matter how hard all kids watching at home clap their hands.

I could very well be that the mirror is converting (very small parts of) his movement energy into energy on this way and is thus slowing down.

It wouldn't need to be much wierder than the theorethical Hawkin Radiation (where a black hole "transforms" matter into energy, without mater or energy ever leaving it).

[dmjalund]

Re: something from nothing

 

black hole ratdiation occurs when virtual photons are created and the black hole swollows one.

 

The black hole looses mass/energy from swallowing a virtual photon

 

I think this means the mirror loses energey when it absorbs the virtual photon

[Christopher]

Re: something from nothing

 

black hole ratdiation occurs when virtual photons are created and the black hole swollows one.

 

The black hole looses mass/energy from swallowing a virtual photon

 

I think this means the mirror loses energey when it absorbs the virtual photon

From wikipedia and hawkins explanation I udnerstand it differently:

Just outside the event horizon, virtual particle/anti-particle pairs come into existence. They are "boosted" to real particle. Now there is a very small chance of them dividing. The anti-particle will be absorbed by the black hole, reducing it's mass. While the real particle will go into space as radiation.*

 

So this has nothign to do with Virtual Particles beign absorbed.

 

 

*Don't ask me why there isn't an equal chance of the black hole absorbing the normal particle and the anti-particle escaping.

[Old Man]

Re: something from nothing

 

*Don't ask me why there isn't an equal chance of the black hole absorbing the normal particle and the anti-particle escaping.

 

I think it is equal, it's just that the antiparticle will quickly encounter a normal particle and annihilate. But I could be wrong.

[Cancer]

Re: something from nothing

 

And there are particles which are are their own antiparticles.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: something from nothing

 

From wikipedia and hawkins explanation I udnerstand it differently:

Just outside the event horizon, virtual particle/anti-particle pairs come into existence. They are "boosted" to real particle. Now there is a very small chance of them dividing. The anti-particle will be absorbed by the black hole, reducing it's mass. While the real particle will go into space as radiation.*

 

So this has nothign to do with Virtual Particles beign absorbed.

 

 

*Don't ask me why there isn't an equal chance of the black hole absorbing the normal particle and the anti-particle escaping.

 

The chance of a particle or anti-particle being absorbed/emitted are equal, and more to the point, they each have the same mass. Either way, the black hole loses a bit of mass with each particle emitted, eventually leading to its evaporation, absorption of virtual particles notwithstanding.

 

I suspect a similar mechanism is at work WRT to energy emitted by the mirror in this case.

[Lucius]

Re: something from nothing

 

From wikipedia and hawkins explanation I udnerstand it differently:

Just outside the event horizon, virtual particle/anti-particle pairs come into existence. They are "boosted" to real particle. Now there is a very small chance of them dividing. The anti-particle will be absorbed by the black hole, reducing it's mass. While the real particle will go into space as radiation.*

 

So this has nothign to do with Virtual Particles beign absorbed.

 

 

*Don't ask me why there isn't an equal chance of the black hole absorbing the normal particle and the anti-particle escaping.

 

As I understand it - and I could be wrong - the chances are not quite equal because while both particle and antiparticle are equally subject to gravity, the antiparticle is also subject to an attraction to its opposite. There is thus a very narrow zone around the black hole in which, when a pair of virtual paricles appear, the antiparticle is apt to be drawn in and the particle has a chance to escape. Inside that zone, both are captured; outside that zone, their strongest draw is towards each other and they mutually annihilate almost instantly.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

0=-1+1=0=-1+1=0