Running and jumping in the same Phase.

[quozaxx]

In most movements, you usually jump or you run. But what if you want to run, jump, and then run again?

 

They do it in track and field events all the time over hurtles.

 

Let's say you have 4 meters of jump, and 14 meters of run. In a half Phase, you can either jump 2 meters or run 7 meters. Now, you are at location "A" need to get to location "B" with a half Phase move. But between A and B is a 1 meter tall hedge in the way. The GM put the hedge there on purpose so you'd HAVE to jump it or go around it (and for the sake of argument, let's say you are not sure if you have the casual STR to break through it; so decide against it.)

 

How do the rules apply in this situation? (or in general) Would you end up 6 meters from point A in a Half Phase? 7? Something else?

[Christopher]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

Any movement with any single mode of movement of up to half your movement rate counts as a half move, wich needs a half phase action*.

 

It depends a lot how far you are from the hedge:

When you can jump over it from where you stand (propably not more than 1m with 4m leaping), then your half move jump would get you to the other side. If your starting point is any further away:

Move to a jump postion (1st half phase), jump over it (2nd half phase).

 

 

*Unless you allow casual movement for the APG I.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

You wouldn't use Leaping movement at all. Acrobatics or PS: Athlete roll, possibly a DEX roll with penalties, to clear the obstacle.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

Well, you could do it a few ways.

 

First, the 'math' for leaping assumes a running start for your maximum horizontal movement; your leaping distance is halved if you leap from a standstill instead of a run.

 

So, basically, if you have enough leaping to clear the obstacle, then a simple DEX roll with a penalty, or an Acrobatics roll without a penalty if you have the skill, seems the go-to answer.

 

Alternately, you could use up to half your running as a half move, then half of your leaping as another half move, but this might make it so you don't have enough movement to clear the obstacle.

[Ice9]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

I personally run it that when you split your movement between two modes, you can mix those modes how you like.

So with 14m Running and 4m Leaping, you can move 7m and make a 2m jump at any point during that movement. Or double both of those if you go to non-combat movement.

If the obstacle was awkwardly placed (just past a corner, appeared suddenly, etc) then I'd call for a DEX or Acrobatics roll.

 

I'm pretty sure this isn't RAW, but it's worked pretty well, and it avoid the oddness of hurdles or small gaps bringing people to a standstill.

Also makes it more worthwhile to have multiple good modes of movement.

[quozaxx]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

First question: If you can only run 7m, then once you ran 7m forward you would be done, right? So, wouldn't running AND jumping put you at 8m or more?

 

Second question: What happens if the wall is taller? Let's say 4m tall and you could leap 8m up? If the wall is 2m in front of you and you want to make it as far as possible; where would you end up in Half a Phase? A DEX roll (or acrobatics roll) seem unrealistic for such a tall wall.

[Christopher]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

First' date=' the 'math' for leaping assumes a running start for your maximum horizontal movement; your leaping distance is halved if you leap from a standstill instead of a run. [/quote']

I am not certain that this is still true for 6E. Nothing under "Use Leaping" say anythign about running speed.

 

First question: If you can only run 7m' date=' then once you ran 7m forward you would be done, right? So, wouldn't running AND jumping put you at 8m or more?[/quote']

A Running half Move and a Jumping Half Move with 14m/4m can put you at 9m. The same way two running half moves put you at 14 and two jumping halve moves put you at 4m.

Running does not limits your Tunneling or Leaping, any more than it would limit your flight or Teleport. Each mode of movement (Running, Leaping, Swimming, Shwinging, Flight, Teleport) is completely seperate from the other, even Leaping and Running*.

 

*You can use acrobatics for small obstalces, but that is at least a Zeor Phase Action - so you can only do it before or after a half phase action, not during a half/full move it (you have to end you movement, make acrobatics roll, then start a new half move).

 

Second question: What happens if the wall is taller? Let's say 4m tall and you could leap 8m up? If the wall is 2m in front of you and you want to make it as far as possible; where would you end up in Half a Phase? A DEX roll (or acrobatics roll) seem unrealistic for such a tall wall.

First you need to determine if the character has enough upward leap to even get over it. Leaping suffers from the gravity penalty, so it's just normal leaping movent/2.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

Say you have 24 metres of running and 6 metres of leaping. You can run 12 metres then jump over a 3 metre barrier, or jump over a 3 metre barrier then run 12 metres but you can not technically run 6 metres, jump a 3 metre barrier then run 3 more metres, even though it is all exactly the same distance and effect.

 

The reason is sound: you'd be dividing a turn into bits that are not half turns, but the effect is silly. If you wanted to run and jump once, I'd happily let you so long as you went no further than you could in a single phase.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

First question: If you can only run 7m' date=' then once you ran 7m forward you would be done, right? So, wouldn't running AND jumping put you at 8m or more? [/quote']

 

So if you have 7m of run and 7m of jump you could run 7m or jump 7m in a phase but if you run and jump you move 8m due to rounding. Weird. I would probably frown, but allow it. After all, you have bought two movement powers. Next time I would suggest you buy running with 'can be used as leaping' as an advantage to prevent that ever happening again. Of course that still only allows you to change movement mode once per phase, so I'd probably have to frown again.

 

Second question: What happens if the wall is taller? Let's say 4m tall and you could leap 8m up? If the wall is 2m in front of you and you want to make it as far as possible; where would you end up in Half a Phase? A DEX roll (or acrobatics roll) seem unrealistic for such a tall wall.

 

Being able to leap 8m up is probably unrealistic too

 

The rules are understandable, but not really playable. I suppose you could say that you have to limit your movement to fit with what you want to do, but that, well, sucks.

 

Say you can run 20m and jump 16m (which is 8m up), you have a total average move of 36/2 =18 metres. I'd let you do a combomove half move of 9m. If that puts you over the obstacle or within 4m either side of it, you are in the air at the half move point (4m either side because you need to leap up 4m, and that requires an 8m leap.

 

I may be overthinking this. In much the same way that the Pope shi...no, sorry, that's bears.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

In situations like this, I fall back on the rule of common sense and let the person mix their running and leaping half-moves, even it it doesn't technically work out to one half-move per half-phase. If I was a robot, I might do it more in line with the RAW.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

In situations like this' date=' I fall back on the rule of common sense and let the person mix their running and leaping half-moves, even it it doesn't technically work out to one half-move per half-phase. If I was a robot, I might do it more in line with the RAW.[/quote']

 

...which is precisely the sort of thing a robot would say, to throw us off the scent...

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

...which is precisely the sort of thing a robot would say' date=' to throw us off the scent...[/quote']

 

You've found me out.

 

DESTROY HUMANS! DESTROY HUMANS! DESTROY HUMANS!

[Sean Waters]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

Aarg!

 

**runs 7m then has to wait until next phase to jump over the low wall**

[Christopher]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

The reason is sound: you'd be dividing a turn into bits that are not half turns' date=' but the effect is silly. If you wanted to run and jump once, I'd happily let you so long as you went no further than you could in a single phase.[/quote']

No, I see the reason and I comes from the real world:

You need to stop your running, or you can't jump. People taking part in a Hurdling Competetion move the same distances slower than people making a Running Competition.

Even good Parkour runner is still slower "Parkouring" than running the same distance on a paved walkway.

[Martin2]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

No, I see the reason and I comes from the real world:

You need to stop your running, or you can't jump. People taking part in a Hurdling Competetion move the same distances slower than people making a Running Competition.

Even good Parkour runner is still slower "Parkouring" than running the same distance on a paved walkway.

 

So in the real world do hurdlers stop running and jump, start running and stop then jump? It looks to be that they are running and jumping at the same time.

 

The reason hurdlers are slower than they can sprint is because in general terms they can run faster than they can jump.

 

In Hero (and the real world) your average human jumping distance is slower than their running speed.

 

So if you spend a proportion of your time jumping you will slow down relative to your full sprint.

 

So the current valid rules of half move each with a half move then half jump for a 12m run 4m jump would be 8m.

 

I would say you could possibly run quater moves and jump quater moves (rounding down in this case). So a hurdler could move 3m jump 1m to clear a 1/2m obstacle, run 3m jump 1m to clear a half meter obstacle (or what ever the leap length to hight is, or more if they have higher run and jump) for net movement 8m away from where you started.

 

In a heroic+ game with a character with the same run as jump there would be no change in velocity.

 

Also when do Parkour move in a straight line? They take the most indirect route just to look good . Again if the Parkour is a jump related skill it would slow down as well.

[Christopher]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

So in the real world do hurdlers stop running and jump' date=' start running and stop then jump? It looks to be that they are running and jumping at the same time.[/quote']

No. But you have to slow down for the jump, reposition your feet to jump. You can't just jump in the middle of a run without preparation. All that takes time and it means you will not have moved as far as if you could have just run straight. The half move mechanic deals with it nicely, I think.

 

Heroic games will hardly get to the point where running = leaping. The maxima cap Leaping at half of running so the character will pay a lot for this or be not a fast runner...

[itsalwayssunny]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

No. But you have to slow down for the jump, reposition your feet to jump. You can't just jump in the middle of a run without preparation. All that takes time and it means you will not have moved as far as if you could have just run straight. The half move mechanic deals with it nicely, I think.

 

Heroic games will hardly get to the point where running = leaping. The maxima cap Leaping at half of running so the character will pay a lot for this or be not a fast runner...

 

I think you're right about the half-move mechanic.

 

But you can jump in the middle of a run without preparation. Might not be very graceful, but you can do it. Ever been jogging and suddenly see a pothole or other obstacle, then jump over it? Happens all the time. You don't even lose much speed if you manage to land on your feet. I'd just have 'em make a DEX roll for the landing if it were a game event.

 

--Kap

[Christopher]

Re: Running and jumping in the same Phase.

 

But you can jump in the middle of a run without preparation. Might not be very graceful' date=' but you can do it. Ever been jogging and suddenly see a pothole or other obstacle, then jump over it? Happens all the time. You don't even lose much speed if you manage to land on your feet. I'd just have 'em make a DEX roll for the landing if it were a game event.[/quote']

Jogging is not exaclty running at full speed, but your continous speed.

Your feets are never very far away, not as far as when you run. Jumps are usually done using both feet at the same height. What you describe is a very short "jump", nothing compared to what you can do when prepared.