Magic pistols

[Laundry Knight]

Re: Magic pistols

 

On the issue of technical fire, mutant fire, or magical fire, as long as you are consistent on how effects work in your campaign, there should be no reason that magical fire cannot be treated as both magical for situations that affect magic and fire for situations that affect fire, and the same being true of the other categories. As for the cosmic energy issue in Champions, that is simply a question of feel that seems to be true in early cosmically based supers in comics. The assumption is that cosmic energy is the source of all other energies and therefore operates according to rules that is different from the other energies even though it can emulate those other energies. If in your campaign, magical energy takes the place of cosmic energy then you may want to apply the same rules for the sake of feel.

[Christopher]

Re: Magic pistols

 

I agree' date=' but my question Christopher is (and I could very well missed it) is where the OP implied he wanted something that required the variable special effect. He said he wanted the bullets to shoot both fire and ice bullets (with the same mechanical effect then yes of course.) Or do you think that because they are magic ice bullets they require the vsfx?[/quote']

His question had the possibility. So we explored the ramifications.

 

On the issue of technical fire' date=' mutant fire, or magical fire, as long as you are consistent on how effects work in your campaign, there should be no reason that magical fire cannot be treated as both magical for situations that affect magic and fire for situations that affect fire, and the same being true of the other categories.[/quote']

Indeed, it's all in the consistency.

Technical/gadget source Special Effect is the least likely to be held to this standart ("but I have already fired the gun, so where it came from is no issue").

Magical Source is the most likely ("But it is magical fire. It's sustained by magic.").

[Martin2]

Re: Magic pistols

 

OK thanks all for the feed back.

 

My interpretation of the rules seems to be similar to some and not similar to others .

 

His multipower is 60 points "magic" which has two "magic guns" which are not actually focus based as they are indestructible and can return to his hand to some extent (normal grabs will not work but other grabs may delay the return) so they are restrainable (the theory being that he can remagic another weapon if one is lost but this takes some time to do it).

 

Each "gun" has two slots each and are spell powered with endurance and not bullets (charges). One based on fire and one based on ice.

 

I will approach the player and say he has the option of having magic only powers that look like fire and ice.

 

Or he can have them to have effects of fire and ice and effect targets as fire and ice.

 

If he picks fire/ ice effects I will consider that the target will be be effected by magic fire and magic ice so any defences / vulnerabilities for either magic or fire / ice will take effect (I am thinking if the target has both magic or fire / ice then only the worst / best effect will be used. But I will think more about this if it ever happens).

 

If he is targeted by a magic drain then all powers will have a chance of being effected. If a fire or ice drain is used then one of the multipower slots will be effected so could take out one of the "guns" and two of the slots from the multipower in a couple of drains.

 

But this is my thoughts and for my campaign and some may disagree .

 

At least I seem to pick grey areas in the rules and everyone gets a chance to put over what they do in their games .

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Magic pistols

 

His question had the possibility. So we explored the ramifications.

But you didn't "explore the ramifications". You told the OP to tell his player the SFX HAD to be magic, not fire or ice. You gave no reason why or explaination and a discussion only developed because pretty much everyone disaggreed with your statement.

[Christopher]

Re: Magic pistols

 

If he picks fire/ ice effects I will consider that the target will be be effected by magic fire and magic ice so any defences / vulnerabilities for either magic or fire / ice will take effect (I am thinking if the target has both magic or fire / ice then only the worst / best effect will be used. But I will think more about this if it ever happens).

Have two and you get the worst for the target is what Additional Special Effect is for. Without it, going for "you have both, but you get the worst effect" might be a better choice. Giving him that advantage for free could cause problems with other players, who say have Technology/Ice. At least I picture vulnerabilitesi to mutant power or "Gadgeteering" to be a lot less common than ones agaisnt magic.

But it your game, fo course.

 

But you didn't "explore the ramifications". You told the OP to tell his player the SFX HAD to be magic' date=' not fire or ice. You gave no reason why or explaination and a discussion only developed because pretty much everyone disaggreed with your statement.[/quote']

Sorry, but I clearly said that he can have fire and ice special effects, as long as each attack has only one sfx and he can't choose between them from use to use.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Magic pistols

 

Sorry, I was thinking of his resonse to your initial post. It should be noted though that nothing in the OP even suggested that the SFX would vary for the same Power and gave no indication that he thought you could choose between SFX with each use of a power. You seem to address a problem/concern that doesn't exist...

[DusterBoy]

Re: Magic pistols

 

Here's Surbrook's write up for Gene Starwind's Caster pistol from Outlaw Star:

 

49 Caster Pistol: Multipower, 210-point reserve, No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; Gene can never be sure what charges and advantages/slots, if any, will be available; -1); all slots 8 Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; very difficult to obtain new shells; -1), OAF (-1), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, -1/4)

9u 1) Magic Spell I: EB 12d6, Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2), Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; +2); OAF (-1), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, -1/4)

9u 2) Magic Shell II: RKA 4d6, Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2), Variable Advantage (+1 Advantages; +2); OAF (-1), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, -1/4)

9u 3) Anti-Magic Shell: Dispel 55d6, any magic power one at a time (+1/4); OAF (-1), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, -1/4)

1u 4) Singularity: Extra-Dimensional Movement (one location in space), Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (3d6 BODY Drain; -1), OAF (-1), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, -1/4)

 

Essentially it is a pistol which fires magical rounds. I hope it is of some use.

[Lucius]

Re: Magic pistols

 

Neither do I. In fact' date=' if the victim of the attack has both a (for example) 1.5x Vulnerability to Magic AND a 1.5x Vulnerability to Fire (or Ice), then one could even possibly make an argument for the victim taking 3 times the damage.[/quote']

 

They could also trigger special defenses or detects or other interactions that are not desireable for the character.

 

It would make as much sense to say a power combining "magic" and "fire" should get a Limitation, as to say it needs an Advantage.

 

In either case, it doesn't make any sense unless you also do the same for powers combining "mutant power" and "ice" or combining "technology" and "explosive force" and "high velocity projectile" - that would be an ordinary gun, of course. In other words, if the argument applies to any power, it applies to all powers of all characters everywhere, because they can all be defined and described in more than one way.

 

How about we apply BOTH an Advantage and a Limitation to every single power and set both at zero?

 

 

No wonder Hero has a reputation of being complicated. It's not that the system is complicated, it's that people make it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary suggests I simplify my life, since plenty of people will do all they can to complicate it for me

[Christopher]

Re: Magic pistols

 

Neither do I. In fact' date=' if the victim of the attack has both a (for example) 1.5x Vulnerability to Magic AND a 1.5x Vulnerability to Fire (or Ice), then one could even possibly make an argument for the victim taking 3 times the damage.[/quote']

Actually: No. It would be 2.25 times the effect. See 6E1 432.

[OSAT]

Re: Magic pistols

 

Now i've only read the first page of this thread and skimmed the second but this may be the answer (I set this up for a char with similar powers) the multi-power adds an additional die of damage to whatever weapon your wielding and the naked advantage matches the base weapon damage to the added element.

18 Weapon Element: Variable Special Effects (to Match Weapon Buff; +1/4) for up to 60 Active Points of Weapon of Opportunity, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (22 Active Points); Linked (Weapon Buff Multi-Power; -1/4)

36 Weapon Buffs: Multipower, 30-point reserve, all slots Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); all slots Incantations (-1/4)

2f 1) Percing Weapon: Naked Advantage: Armor Piercing (x2; +1/2) for up to 45 Active Points (22 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4)

2f 2) Spirit Weapon: Naked Advantage: Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Power Defense; +1/2) for up to 45 Active Points (22 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4)

1f 3) Flame Blade: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6, Area Of Effect (1m Surface; +1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Constant (+1/2) (30 Active Points); No STR Bonus (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

1f 4) Frost Blade: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6, Area Of Effect (1m Surface; +1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Constant (+1/2) (30 Active Points); No STR Bonus (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

1f 5) Shock Blade: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6, Area Of Effect (1m Surface; +1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Constant (+1/2) (30 Active Points); No STR Bonus (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

1f 6) Flame Shot: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (19 Active Points); Linked (???; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4)

1f 7) Frost Shot: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (19 Active Points); Linked (???; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4)

1f 8) Lightning Shot: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (19 Active Points); Linked (???; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4)

Powers Cost: 64

[OSAT]

Re: Magic pistols

 

forgot to put in the above that the idea is it works with whatever weapon comes to hand.