RPMiller Posted October 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Re: CONGRATULATIONS DURIN ! SA's BACK !! Originally posted by TheQuestionMan It's good to see San Angelo : City of HEROes back where it belongs and back in production . My only complaint with SA:CoHs was I discovered it so late . (well that and Denizens of SA) . My one and only request for the best Superhero Supplement of all time is (drum roll please ..........) MAPS,maps , maps , maps , and more maps of the city , of the community , of city blocks , and maps of buildings . (oh city skyline for MAPS) Thank you DURIN And make mine a HERO by DoJ . I too am a lover of maps. I use ProFantasy's CC2 and I'll will endeavor to provide as much as I can as well as clean up some of the existing maps. Would a San Angelo City map book be something that you would be interested in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted October 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man The questions were for you. I want you to succeed, and as such, I was presenting questions that the consumer will need answered if you want them to purchase your product as opposed to, or in addition to, the other products that are competing for their dollar. In essence you should read my questions as: how are you going to position and market your product as unique? I think Mark already answered this above, but I'll reiterate. The marketing hasn't started yet so we will all just have to hang tight until that time. I believe that all your concerns will be met, and met well. The answers you gave were, to be frank, dissmissive, and didn't take the consumer very seriously. In essence, I asked why I, the consumer, should give you my money, and you assumed a tone of smug flippancy. Its not a sales technique many people respond well to. I recommend a different marketing approach. Like actually answering the consumers questions in earnest. Especially when they are trying to help. Asking them "are you sure you read it?" is insulting, and turns people off. Trust me when I say that Mark is by no means trying to do any of this. I will ask that you have a little patience with us, and bare with us as we get the ball rolling again. As a long time consumer myself I feel your anxiety, and will do my best to answer questions, and respond to comments, but let's not get into battles about business practices and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Mark... Umm just so you know the numbers you gave are actualy 17993 years apart (Just love being a smart alec) One thing, make sure the rules are followed. I only ahve one of your books (Enemies) but I saw a couple of write ups that had the END Reserve IN the same MP as the powers it is suppose to be fueling, and other small rules blunders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by Gold Rush Games Gads. Have you read Enemies of San Angelo? No. Just skimmed through the main book. If there is more to the story I suggest you guys work on a format that "sells" this point more directly for impatient customers like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted October 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz Mark... Umm just so you know the numbers you gave are actualy 17993 years apart (Just love being a smart alec) One thing, make sure the rules are followed. I only ahve one of your books (Enemies) but I saw a couple of write ups that had the END Reserve IN the same MP as the powers it is suppose to be fueling, and other small rules blunders. I have and will build all characters using HeroDesigner so any mistakes are all Dan's fault. Just kidding. I will endeavor to be "By The Book". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted October 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X No. Just skimmed through the main book. If there is more to the story I suggest you guys work on a format that "sells" this point more directly for impatient customers like me. Hmm... any suggestions? I know that when I want a good story to read I usually go on suggestions from friends who haven't steered me wrong before. HEY. That has already been done for SA... Hmm... any other suggestions on how we might keep impatient customers like you from putting it down? Any help would be much appreciated. In fact, that goes for everyone who may read this thread. I love constructive criticism, but it has to be constructive and usually followed up with suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by RPMiller Hmm... any suggestions? I know that when I want a good story to read I usually go on suggestions from friends who haven't steered me wrong before. HEY. That has already been done for SA... Hmm... any other suggestions on how we might keep impatient customers like you from putting it down? Any help would be much appreciated. In fact, that goes for everyone who may read this thread. I love constructive criticism, but it has to be constructive and usually followed up with suggestions. I'll stare at my friend's copy of San Angelo and see what I can come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 This is my impression. The detail on everyday features of a city is wonderful. The characters in the back of the book, which is what I often use to decide if I'm going to buy something or not, don't do it for me. What Mutants and Masterminds did right with Freedom City is that the heroes and villains were related to one another in an implied story that heightened my interest in reading more. I love the Hero System but the format that I've seen for published characters is sort of a killjoy method and San Angelo followed that model. I suggest including characters who look like they belong together as a team or explain why they belong together on a team. Have villains that are inspired opponents of the heroes. Too often, Hero tries to make characters stand alone. San Angelo will feel more "comic bookish" and more interesting if you can sell that point. Move away from foundations that start a superteam. It's too much like the guy at the tavern hiring the fantasy party to sack a dungeon. Tell a story with the founding of a superteam. The villains in San Angelo: City of Heroes were cookie-cutter. I can't speak about Enemies of San Angelo but you got to show some good stuff in the main book to get me to look at the next one. Mechanical Issues: It seemed like someone bent over backwards to make sure the characters had 10-12d6 attacks, almost every one of them. Shake things up. Don't work so hard to make the characters balance out on the numbers with each other and let the concept guide you instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X This is my impression. The detail on everyday features of a city is wonderful. The characters in the back of the book, which is what I often use to decide if I'm going to buy something or not, don't do it for me. What Mutants and Masterminds did right with Freedom City is that the heroes and villains were related to one another in an implied story that heightened my interest in reading more. I love the Hero System but the format that I've seen for published characters is sort of a killjoy method and San Angelo followed that model. I suggest including characters who look like they belong together as a team or explain why they belong together on a team. Have villains that are inspired opponents of the heroes. Too often, Hero tries to make characters stand alone. San Angelo will feel more "comic bookish" and more interesting if you can sell that point. Move away from foundations that start a superteam. It's too much like the guy at the tavern hiring the fantasy party to sack a dungeon. Tell a story with the founding of a superteam. The villains in San Angelo: City of Heroes were cookie-cutter. I can't speak about Enemies of San Angelo but you got to show some good stuff in the main book to get me to look at the next one. I think this is a very astute observation - the characters in the book should have something to do with one another (though I recommend against a white wolf style meta-plot) -there should be enough interrelation to create a sense of verisimilitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost who Walks Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by RPMiller I'm not sure which 5th edition corporations you are referring to. I'm assuming that you are speaking of DoJ material? SA is a different world setting, but there will be suggestions for GMs to use to incorporate/replace both worlds' material. I have never been bound by source material. As a GM, I mix and match material as I see fit, but as the developer of the SA line I will have to stay within its boundries, but you shouldn't let that hinder you and your own creativity. I suppose I was refering from to the corps mentioned in the Champions Universe book. My campaign world is somewhat different from either the DOJ or Champions Universe one, so I mostly looks at what material I can pull out of them and reuse. San Angelo had an extremely high "pull out" factor. (especially the NPC types) My own goal as a GM is usually to use as much of the RP material I have bought over the years as possible. Having said that, if I was going to restart a campaign, I would probably do it in San Angelo. Originally posted by RPMiller You are very insightful... Why, thank you. So reading this post will have some value for you, I did have one minor problem with the original book. The organized crime section was a little small, with only some gangs mentioned. Basicly, there did not seem to be much there that the local police could handle. There also could have been something in about illegal immigration. In fact, a section summarizing the cities problems could be valuable: crime, overcrowding, drugs, education, traffic, are usually the ones most cities have. I do agree with some of the above posts, that the superpowered characters (in SA: CoH) lacked something. The enemies book was far more useful. I think this was mainly because the villains fitted into SA: CoH, (a good example was Riptide). Each also had a supporting normal, to help use them. A very good format for an enemies book. Tying in heroes to such an approach would b a good idea, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by RPMiller I have and will build all characters using HeroDesigner so any mistakes are all Dan's fault. Just kidding. I will endeavor to be "By The Book". Actualy I don't mind breaking the rules, just explain it when you do it (For instance in one of the books steve permits a NND Entangle, but clearly states he is bending the rules) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Re: Re: CONGRATULATIONS DURIN ! SA's BACK !! Originally posted by RPMiller I too am a lover of maps. I use ProFantasy's CC2 and I'll will endeavor to provide as much as I can as well as clean up some of the existing maps. Would a San Angelo City map book be something that you would be interested in? I'll use small words yes please , yes please , yes please !!! and thank you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted October 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 I can tell we are all on the same page. I too liked the way Enemies was laid out and the tie in with the NPCs, I believe strongly in keeping San Angelo "alive" and growing so you will continue to see a lot of the elements that you bring up above repeated in future books. Regarding the bending of the rules, I may have to in a couple circumstances, but as you said I will explain why. I have always been a "character developer" versus a "optimizer/minmaxer" so hopefully that will come out in everything that I write, and you all can keep me honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man I think this is a very astute observation - the characters in the book should have something to do with one another (though I recommend against a white wolf style meta-plot) -there should be enough interrelation to create a sense of verisimilitude. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by RPMiller I can tell we are all on the same page. I too liked the way Enemies was laid out and the tie in with the NPCs, I believe strongly in keeping San Angelo "alive" and growing so you will continue to see a lot of the elements that you bring up above repeated in future books. Regarding the bending of the rules, I may have to in a couple circumstances, but as you said I will explain why. I have always been a "character developer" versus a "optimizer/minmaxer" so hopefully that will come out in everything that I write, and you all can keep me honest. It's really confusing when you change your name and the thread has your old name in the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted October 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X It's really confusing when you change your name and the thread has your old name in the title. You'll just have to deal with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Congats Durnin/Mr Miller So can we expect an blond anime version of Supergirl who...er...um...bounces? Bazza, asking the serious questions that you're afraid to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Bazza So can we expect an blond anime version of Supergirl who...er...um...bounces? Bazza, asking the serious questions that you're afraid to ask. Hmm. Will probably need to go with a not quite so super look, but the bouncing should be important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Mr. Miller, my wish for you is that your creative work on San Angelo be as successful as that customized avatar. I don't think another attachment on these boards has been downloaded 676 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden I don't think another attachment on these boards has been downloaded 676 times. Check out the first page of the Superhero Images thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted October 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Bazza Congats Durnin/Mr Miller So can we expect an blond anime version of Supergirl who...er...um...bounces? Bazza, asking the serious questions that you're afraid to ask. LOL I highly doubt it, but you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted October 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Mr. Miller, my wish for you is that your creative work on San Angelo be as successful as that customized avatar. I don't think another attachment on these boards has been downloaded 676 times. Thank you. I certainly hope that everyone agrees with you and buys the books. As much as I love the genre, and gaming in particular, I also like money. Of course it goes without saying, that the more books you all buy from us the more I'll be able to make as well. (hint hint) note to self: look into using avatar as spokesperson for SA line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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