How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

[Ozymandias]

Long time since I've been around on this forum, but I just recently saw the New Amazing Spider-man movie, and I decided to build Spider-man in Hero. I ran into a bit of a conundrum on how to build the Web shooters. Not on the abilities, since they're pretty straight forward, but the web-shooters themselves. My first reaction was to use Charges, but I figured that could get expensive, unless I wanted him to refill his charges after almost every fight, which wouldn't be that bad, but it doesn't really mesh with the way Spider-man's web shooter works either in the comics or in the movie. So then I thought about using an Endurance reserve, like so:

 

Endurance Reserve (240 END, 60 REC; -2 Limited recovery (on the REC portion of the ER), Must have access to a workshop and appropriate chemicals; -3 Slow Recovery (on the REC portion of the ER), REC/20 minutes; -1/4 Restricted Use, Web based Powers; -1/4 IIF) [100 Active points; 46 Real points]

 

So yeah. Anyone else got a better idea how to represent it?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

I would probably use clips of charges, since (at least in the comics, dunno about the movie) he carries extra cartridges on the webshooters' wristbands and can easy swap them out when one runs dry. This is how the 5e Gadgets and Gear does it; something like 8 clips of 64 charges on a Multipower reserve, then Multipower slots for all the various web-shape tricks.

[Ozymandias]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

I'm basically building it as a multi-power reserve already, but the charges with clips could work, but It would be arguable if it would be worth it, point wise. I currently have it as a 60 point multipower, so that changes it to 120 Active points, meaning that if I applied a 1/2 worth of disadvantage it would be feasible, but since the web shooters is built as -1/4 IIF, it wouldn't be quite worth it. I could potentially get away with adding -1/4 real weapon, since the web shooters do require a tad bit of maintenance, but that seems a bit munchkin-y.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

Make it 8 Clips with 32 Charges (I think that's the next lowest step, right?). One clip should last through most 2-3 Turn battles.

[esampson]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

I'd be surprised if you could use 32 charges in 3 turns unless you've got something like autofire. Since you are probably only really using them no more than once per round (with the possible exception of using up charges for swinging) with the occasional exception of multiple attacks and there will most likely be rounds where you don't use them at all because you are dodging attacks/diving for cover or just plain punching/kicking someone I would imagine in 3 turns you would use up about SPD*1.5 or so. Considering how often Spiderman runs out of web fluid (granted, it isn't that often but he doesn't often go through more than 1 or two fights in a row) and 8 clips is probably way to much as well.

 

Considering you're using so much less web fluid to swing as when you are webbing someone up I probably wouldn't want that to use up a full charge and so I would take it out of the multipower, reduce its END cost to 0, and take a small limitation (-0 to -1/4) that you can't use swinging when you are out of charges.

 

I'm a big fan of Endurance Reserves under earlier editions back when it functioned more like charges (you could even have clips) and suspect I would probably still lean towards an END reserve. If we assume you use roughly 6 END per use and a 6 SPD then that's 54 END for 3 turns (using my earlier logic). Extend that to, say, 4 encounters an it is 216. That's 54 active points plus 2 more for 3 points of recovery which makes it 56, which does seem like a lot except that you add the -2 for limited recovery, -2 for slow recovery (1 recovery per 5 minutes which means it takes 6 hours to make a complete batch), and the -1/4 for IIF and it only costs you 11 points.

 

If you want to be even more 'accurate' to the comic you could probably apply a (small) Limited Power limitation that breaks your Endurance Reserve into clips that require an action to switch out every so often.

 

(EDIT: Just realized you can make the effect even more accurate to the comics but doubling the reserve and adding another small Limited Power limitation to the remaining half that to access that part of the reserve you first have to go home. This simulates fluid that is already completed but which isn't being carried.

 

Final cost: 56 Active with -2 for limited recovery, -2 for slow recovery, -1/4 because it is broken into 4 'clips', -1/4 for IIF (10 CP) + 54 active points with -2 limited recovery, -2 slow recovery, -1/4 for being broken into clips, -1/4 for having to go home, -1/4 for IIF (9 CP) = 19 CP.)

[Bloodstone]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

Could just buy it all Zero End and put Activation Roll 15- with either Burnout or Jammed on it to represent that he occassionaly runs out of web fluid.

 

Clear the jam/burnout by returning to the workshop to resupply or fix it.

 

Less book keeping, but there wil be those days when it jams on the first roll...

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

You could always buy the flaw of occasionally running out of fluid as a Jammed limitation. He has to "clear the jam" by reloading with a fresh cartridge. Less paperwork that way, too.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

Blast you, Bloodstone! Beat me to the punch by [Maxwell Smart]*that* much![/Maxwell Smart]

[Tasha]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

I'm basically building it as a multi-power reserve already' date=' but the charges with clips [i']could[/i] work, but It would be arguable if it would be worth it, point wise. I currently have it as a 60 point multipower, so that changes it to 120 Active points, meaning that if I applied a 1/2 worth of disadvantage it would be feasible, but since the web shooters is built as -1/4 IIF, it wouldn't be quite worth it. I could potentially get away with adding -1/4 real weapon, since the web shooters do require a tad bit of maintenance, but that seems a bit munchkin-y.

 

Remember that Charges default to 0 End which make sense for Spiderman classic or New Movie version. Heck, assuming that Spiderman has 6 -8 speed 16 charges last 2 turns. Which is a fairly long combat. Giving it 4 clips (#Clips double when charges become an advantage) and you have charges for 8 turns or so depending on how much swinging the character does. That's where having a 5-6 speed will be very beneficial to the amount of charges you have to go through during a turn.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

Remember that Charges default to 0 End which make sense for Spiderman classic or New Movie version. Heck' date=' assuming that Spiderman has 6 -8 speed 16 charges last 2 turns. [/quote']

 

And that's assuming he uses his web-shooters every phase, which is typically not the case.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

Don't forget about the rule of "+5 points to double the number of items". Spidey does use TWO web shooters so simply double the multipower with that +5 adder. This along with the above suggestions of charges with clips should be plenty of "ammo".

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

I personally don't care for the doubling rule for supers, but that's a good point.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

As a side note, I would probably buy the actual Swinging power outside the Multipower and not using charges; partly because Spider-Man only seems to run out of web-fluid in the middle of fights, and partly because I wouldn't want to make the GM decide how many charges I blew just getting to the scene.

[Christopher]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

Long time since I've been around on this forum, but I just recently saw the New Amazing Spider-man movie, and I decided to build Spider-man in Hero. I ran into a bit of a conundrum on how to build the Web shooters. Not on the abilities, since they're pretty straight forward, but the web-shooters themselves. My first reaction was to use Charges, but I figured that could get expensive, unless I wanted him to refill his charges after almost every fight, which wouldn't be that bad, but it doesn't really mesh with the way Spider-man's web shooter works either in the comics or in the movie. So then I thought about using an Endurance reserve, like so:

 

Endurance Reserve (240 END, 60 REC; -2 Limited recovery (on the REC portion of the ER), Must have access to a workshop and appropriate chemicals; -3 Slow Recovery (on the REC portion of the ER), REC/20 minutes; -1/4 Restricted Use, Web based Powers; -1/4 IIF) [100 Active points; 46 Real points]

 

So yeah. Anyone else got a better idea how to represent it?

You should not try to simualte the comics. You should try to determine how much of a limitation do you want it to be?

You could just buy the MP with 0 END (on the Reserve) and say "he effectively never rusn out".

You could buy 0 END as above, but take a Complication: Succeptibiltiy to long Combats/Dependance on free time to refill, using the "Loss of Power" Option as the Complications Effect.

You could count this stuff down to charges, wich is a lot of bookkeeping.

 

When you want to keep to costs in check and have Hero System Martial Arts 6E, take a look at "Ranged Martial Arts". Some very nice options there to improve range attacks without Endurance Cost.

 

Don't forget about the rule of "+5 points to double the number of items". Spidey does use TWO web shooters so simply double the multipower with that +5 adder. This along with the above suggestions of charges with clips should be plenty of "ammo".

Afaik he mostly uses them "in tandem". He uses both shooters when swinging, when firing the "Entagle, Blocks sight" against the enemies face, etc.

Accordingly he always runs out of juice on both sides at the same time. So I would rather go towards multiple Foci than 5 point doubling.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How would you Build Spidey's Web Shooters?

 

You should not try to simualte the comics. You should try to determine how much of a limitation do you want it to be?

 

We should NOT try to simulate the source material we're basing the game around? To me, you should try to simulate the extent of the limitation you perceive this being, based on the comics and how you think they will best translate into the game in a fun manner. But that doesn't invalidate any of these options:

 

You could just buy the MP with 0 END (on the Reserve) and say "he effectively never rusn out".

You could buy 0 END as above, but take a Complication: Succeptibiltiy to long Combats/Dependance on free time to refill, using the "Loss of Power" Option as the Complications Effect.

You could count this stuff down to charges, wich is a lot of bookkeeping.

 

The Jammed approach is also valid - once in a while he has to replace a cartridge. There seems to be no particular rhyme or reason to the timing in the comics.

 

Afaik he mostly uses them "in tandem". He uses both shooters when swinging, when firing the "Entagle, Blocks sight" against the enemies face, etc.

Accordingly he always runs out of juice on both sides at the same time. So I would rather go towards multiple Foci than 5 point doubling.

 

Again, I could interpret this multiple ways. Two entangles on the face means "take the best roll and add 1 BOD from the reinforcing entangle". Not a huge advantage, but what do you want for 5 points? He sometimes fires off one-handed webs. And I dimly seem to recall a scene where Spidey had to use the other Shooter to stop his fall when the first one ran out of juice mid-swing.

 

Again, however, this comes down to how you want this to work in-game. One focus being "wrist web shooters" or two separate shooters, one purchased for each wrist, can both work in game.

 

Maybe fuel charges would be more appropriate - Spidey seems to go for extended periods without running out of fluid.