LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

[The Main Man]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

Interesting counterpoints. If I did the opposite (remove the usual suspects), I'd keep at least the Erqigdlit,, Pakasa, and Seshurma. I think an avian race wouldn't be an unreasonable followup, nor a fish race. Cover the vertebrate bases and all.

[The Main Man]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

Or Taco comes back' date=' 1000 years after the PCs defeat him, and *then* destroys the world. 'Cause undead lich are like that.The only thing that really doesn't work for me is trying to glue a SciFi world onto that. Why? Just make "normal earth history" then tack "space" on the end of it and boom you're done. No need for any ancient elves or bantam weight bad guys. Don't need no supers in SciFi either; the impetus to do so leaves me scratching my head.[/quote'] Reminds me of a thread I started months ago that hinges on one important divergence: What if Kal Turak never returned as Takofanes?I suppose it fits into this thread theme.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

Or Taco comes back, 1000 years after the PCs defeat him, and *then* destroys the world. 'Cause undead lich are like that.

 

The only thing that really doesn't work for me is trying to glue a SciFi world onto that. Why? Just make "normal earth history" then tack "space" on the end of it and boom you're done. No need for any ancient elves or bantam weight bad guys. Don't need no supers in SciFi either; the impetus to do so leaves me scratching my head.

 

I'm not sure what "SciFi world" is being "glued" onto which world in this discussion. Do you mean SciFi during the Turakian Age? Not really that I can recall. Could you clarify a bit?

 

As to supers in SciFi... supers are SciFi. And Fantasy, Mythology, Modern Adventure, Wuxia... allowing for power level, supers can fit in pretty much everywhere, because the supers genre subsumes elements of almost every other genre.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

Interesting counterpoints. If I did the opposite (remove the usual suspects)' date=' I'd keep at least the Erqigdlit,, Pakasa, and Seshurma. I think an avian race wouldn't be an unreasonable followup, nor a fish race. Cover the vertebrate bases and all.[/quote']

 

I find the conflict between the Mer-folk and the Sharthak (shark-men) in TA interesting. My setting modifications include a couple of defined Mer-folk kingdoms which interact with the surface folk. One is off the southern coast of the Vornakkian Peninsula, inside the arc of the Harfang Reefs, which the Mer-folk have fortified to help protect them from the Sharthak. These are the Mer-folk allied to the Men of the nearby city of Hruumiel, as described on TA p. 118. The other kingdom is on the underwater slopes between and around the islands of Trogen and Orindon, south of Tornathia. The Tornathian League has built trading posts on both islands, and monopolizes trade with the Mer-folk there.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

Lord Liaden you said that there are some Oriental (and to me that means the Far East) lands. Is there a Korean analogy? If not, I would suggest-Chosum-the Land of the Dragon Carp. My take on mythical Korea, and the Righteous Fists of Shang-Ti.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

Nope, no Korean analogue. The "Oriental-esque" lands in TA are particularly evocative of the peoples of the Indian subcontinent (Indushara), the Indonesian archipelago (Kumasia), and Tibet (Thon-Sa).

 

As Steve Long notes on TA p. 50, the known world of Ambrethel encompasses an area about the size of Eurasia and Africa, leaving plenty of room for a GM to insert other lands not yet discovered.

[The Main Man]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

If one wants to expand the setting, I say toss in the Atlantean Age continent and forego its background. It starts with the discovery of a new land after all. Maybe power it down or at least give it more Heroic sensibilities.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

By "Atlantean Age continent," do you mean the island of Atlantis? Or the whole world from The Atlantean Age sourcebook, with or without the lands of Il-Ryveras from The Valdorian Age? (With which the Atlantean lands coexisted, although not contemporaneously). If we keep to the scale of the real planet Earth, putting in all that stuff would make it really crowded.

[The Main Man]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

The kit and kaboodle; maybe exclude Il-Ryveras - a trade if you will.

 

On a similar note, may as well toss in Arcadia, Lemuria, and Shamballah from Hidden Lands.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

The Atlantean Age already accounts for Lemuria and Arcadia, so you're covered there. Shamballah isn't mentioned, but descriptions of it in Champs books (notably Hidden Lands) keep the date of its foundation mysterious.

[The Main Man]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

Oh yeah (haven't read too deeply into Atlantean Age).Anywho, I looked into the idea of removing Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings and came upon the idea of a compromise; they become a single race familiar to each depending on culture. I think something along the lines of "Fairy Folk" or "Fey Folk" would suffice. It plays off of the similarities between the four races when non-Tolkein-based depictions are considered.These "folk" are further specialized by environment and culture. Elves are replaced by "Forest Folk"; Dwarves by "Stone Folk"; Halflings by "Hill Folk"; and Gnomes by... "Urban Folk" perhaps? Each variety fills the niche of their more differentiated precedents. This further expands the possibilities - River Folk, Sea Folk, Desert Folk, etc.I even worked on the template - a simple averaging of Dwarf, Elf, and Halfling templates. I'll post it tomorrow, but it is meant to be a base template and thus not the be all, end all of the race.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

I'd like to share another of my favorite additions to the Turakian Age setting, in the hope someone will find it interesting and useful. This one arose out of a couple of elements from the default setting whose logic I found a little hard to justify. One concerns the Shaanda River region described on pages 80 and 284 of the TA sourcebook. The river is described as holding only towns and small cities, which have remained independent from foreign rule because they're "too clever, stubborn, and proud" (p. 80). Without apparent benefit of unity or large population, and with ambitious kingdoms at either end of the river, I have difficulty believing a region of such vital importance to trade between the Westerlands and Mhorecia could have remained entirely free of foreign control. The other element is the Drakine land of Seldrion at the eastern end of the Shaanda (described on TA p. 76), the only Drakine kingdom in Mhorecia. Seldrion reputedly maintains its independence from the kingdoms of Men on its borders partly with the support of the other Drakine Realms in the eastern Westerlands. But as Seldrion lies on the opposite side of the Drakine Mountains from the other Realms, with their only physical link being the Shaanda River, it seems unlikely to me that Seldrion could expect much tangible help to reach it in the event of invasion by Men. These lines of thinking led me to a hack which I think addresses that and also adds a bit of game potential:

 

For centuries after the fall of the Lord of the Graven Spear, the kingdoms at either end of the Shaanda River -- the Drakine realms of Basidrun and Seldrion, and Tyrandium and Valicia, realms of Men -- vied for influence and control over the communities along the river. One or the other of them would gain mastery over a town, only to eventually lose it to the machinations of a rival kingdom. In the year 3365 Second Epoch the city of Ishthac, with a majority Drakine population, was conquered by Valicia and made the fief of a Valician baron. For nearly three centuries the Valicians held Isthac, oppressing its Drakine inhabitants. Then in 3649 SE a young Drakine priest named Votarun publically proclaimed the Drakine gods had revealed to him that Ishthac would be liberated from the rule of Men, and that they would raise the city to greatness. The baron sent troops to arrest Votarun, but they were attacked and killed on the road by fell beasts. Then the baron, his family, and his highest officers fell victim to a mysterious illness that killed them all within days. Inspired by these events the Drakine arose in revolt and slaughtered the occupying Valicians, proclaiming Votarun their leader. The Valicians sent troops to try to reclaim the city, but they were blocked by forces from Basidrun before they could reach it.

 

Word of the miraculous liberation of Ishthac spread throughout the Drakine Realms and beyond, and Drakine pilgrims flocked to it as a holy city. Many of them settled there, and as Ishthac grew its wealth and power waxed. By 5000 SE (the default start date for Turakian Age campaigns) Ishthac has become the largest Drakine city on the continent of Arduna, and second only to Hamba'ne, capital of the Empire of Orumbar. Ishthac also rules the Shaanda River valley between the Drakine Mountains and the Valician Hills. Among Ishthac, Basidrun, and Seldrion the Drakine control much of the trade along the Shaanda, which concerns many Men... but it also gives pause to any would-be invaders of the Drakine Realms, that they might counter by blocking trade on the river.

 

As it has been since the days of Votarun, the Thacish (as the inhabitants of Ishthac call themselves) have been ruled by a priest of the Drakine gods. The Macarsa, the highest-ranking priests among the Drakine, elevated Votarun to their ranks after the freeing of Ishthac, and his successors have carried that title ever since. The current ruler of the Thacish, Azarog, calls himself Neren Macarsa (neren meaning "highest") and claims spiritual authority over all Drakine. The majority of Drakine outside Ishthac ignore that claim, but Azarog has many faithful supporters across the Drakine Realms. Most other government functions of Ishthac are also performed by the priesthood, making it technically a theocracy; but since the city-state's earliest days all the most important offices, including the Neren Macarsa, have been filled by members of the Votarun sahisha (an alliance of families), forming an hereditary oligarchy.

 

Unknown to all but the elders of the Votarun sahisha, Ishthac's status as a holy city of miracles is built on a lie. Votarun discovered a fragment of the Graven Spear, lost in the Shaanda River after the death of the Spearlord. The shards of the Spear have cursed the settlements on the Shaanda ever since, causing them enough ill luck that none of them could grow to dominate it (see TA p. 284). Votarun learned not only to lift this curse from Ishthac, but to turn its effects against his enemies and rivals. Should this become public knowledge the outraged Thacish would instantly turn on the Votarun. The Votarun have continued to search for more fragments of the Graven Spear, and currently possess three. They believe they lack only one remaining fragment to reassemble the Spear, and plan to use its power to unite all the Drakine Realms in a crusade against Men, thereby propelling them to rulership of all the Realms. To that end Neren Macarsa Azarog has covertly cultivated adherents to his claim of spiritual supremacy among the leading Drakine of Arduna, to subvert opposition to the Votarun's ambitions. Nonetheless, like all the Drakine rulers Azarog would not hesitate to use his power to support the other Drakine Realms against aggression by Men.

[Steve]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

Oh yeah (haven't read too deeply into Atlantean Age).Anywho' date=' I looked into the idea of removing Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings and came upon the idea of a compromise; they become a single race familiar to each depending on culture. I think something along the lines of "Fairy Folk" or "Fey Folk" would suffice. It plays off of the similarities between the four races when non-Tolkein-based depictions are considered.These "folk" are further specialized by environment and culture. Elves are replaced by "Forest Folk"; Dwarves by "Stone Folk"; Halflings by "Hill Folk"; and Gnomes by... "Urban Folk" perhaps? Each variety fills the niche of their more differentiated precedents. This further expands the possibilities - River Folk, Sea Folk, Desert Folk, etc.I even worked on the template - a simple averaging of Dwarf, Elf, and Halfling templates. I'll post it tomorrow, but it is meant to be a base template and thus not the be all, end all of the race.[/quote']

 

I suppose one way to modify this notion a little further would be to link different fairy races to different elements, maybe in different mixtures with a primary and secondary element. Dwarves could be fairy folk aligned with Earth primarily and Fire secondarily, showing why they have such affinity for forge work. Fairies aligned with Earth and Water could be your forest Elf types.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

I have a different problem with the elves of Turakian Age. Like many elves in generic fantasy settings, they've lost their elvishness.

 

Elves, to be elves, have to be:

 

i) Special, just so gosh-darned special. But don't feel envious, because I'm sure you're trying in your dear little way.

ii) Good, or very nasty indeed. (Because is nasty if they're not good, in which case they're just obnoxious.)

iii). Ancient. By default, civilisation bringers. Valdorian Age has a great twist on this, but not only does Turakian Age substitute the Drakines in this role, but it also undermines it more massively by situating the Valdorian Age within a longer history that (apparently) has no room for elves.

iv) Mysterious and eldritch. Cue some whackjob Celtic Renaissance performers going all woodwind-y. This is always a problem in generic fantasy. It's hard for playable races to have eldritch secrets when it comes down to totalling up the die modifiers.

v) Able to dual-wield scimitars, but unable to throw grenades.

 

I've kind of given away where I'm going here with the parenthesis in (iii). And that is this: the larger setting has a plethora of Space Elves, including the Mandaarians, Progenitors, Empyreans, and, most mysterious and eldritch of all, the Martians, who apparently had an intersteller civilisation more than a billion years ago, when we are specifically told in Champions Beyond that the "first wave" of intelligence in the Milky Way occurred only 20 million years ago.

 

I suggest reconciling this by having the Valdorian Age Elves be Martians, exiled on Earth now that their homeworld can no longer support life. How did Mars come to support life in the first place? How can Martian civilisation be so old? What have the Martians to do with the Progenitors, Empyreans, and Mandaarians? This is a story that begins with great events on the far end of time, when the Last Peoples fought to expel the Qliphotic from the universe's ending, so that life and hope could be made anew in its beginning.

 

I'd explain further, but I'm afraid that your mere mortal mind could not grasp my explanation.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

Meh. An elf is whatever the campaign setting tells you an elf is in that campaign setting.

 

And why in the world would an elf be unable to throw a grenade? Unless he's lost his arms or something.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

The Elves of Ambrethel are pretty much the pseudo-Tolkienesque elves from the Dungeons and Dragons game. That was a deliberate choice by Steve Long when writing the setting, to facilitate recognition on the part of fantasy gamers coming to Fantasy HERO from elsewhere in the hobby, and looking for familiar elements to hang their hats on. Turakian Age explicitly states that their histories go back thousands of years before the coming of the Three Brothers and their followers to Arduna, and that they were far more widespread then. As typical for Tolkienesque Elves, these have withdrawn somewhat from the world in the face of more numerous Men. Also as typical, despite their exceptional qualities they are only one race among many.

 

I was intrigued by the historical story from TA of Vanerishadra and his creed of Elven gods who created their race to be superior to all others. That's something I intend to play up in my own version of the setting, particularly in connection to the xenophobic, isolationist Elves of Shularahaleen. I also like the Drindrish from the Valdorian Age (obvious Melnibonean analogue) and thought of a route to bring something similar to TA, linked to the origin of the Dark Elves.

 

BTW I agree that the Mandaarians are Space Elves, not just by their look but their attitudes, ancient civilization, and extraordinary abilities. In fact they're probably closer to Tolkien's elves in those ways than the ones from Ambrethel.

[Steve]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

If I was to hack TA, I might import ideas from the old ICE Shadow World.

 

Elves, humans and other humanoid races had their creation long ago In ancient bio laboratories of the legendary First Age. The Ancients created the Elves (and I recall their racename for themselves of Ilari translated out to "Pretties") to be attractive companions to members of the Ancients. Humans were a servant race, Orcs were soldier creations, etc. The First Age ended when the Ancients killed each other off in a huge war.

 

The other Shadow World idea I liked was the notion of the Unlife.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

It's long seemed likely to me that many of the races present in the Turakian Age could be the result of deliberation genetic manipulation, not just by gods and wizards, but by the Progenitors and the Elder Worm, both of whom are known to have messed with evolution on Hero Earth. For that matter, some of the weirder races could have originally been servants of the Worm from other planets, whom they brought with them when they came to Earth.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

The other Shadow World idea I liked was the notion of the Unlife.

 

Various Qliphothic entities could easily fill an Unlife role on Hero Earth. Or even bring in the ultimate un-Creator, the Solipsist, which seeks to annihilate everything that exists that's not itself.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

Meh. An elf is whatever the campaign setting tells you an elf is in that campaign setting.

 

And why in the world would an elf be unable to throw a grenade? Unless he's lost his arms or something.

 

Well, on the first, I'm hacking Turakian Age. I agree that if you want to define elves as itinerant door-to-door cabbage salesmen who make their homes in the densest ghettos of your campaign world, that's fine. I just question why you're choosing to call them "elves," especially since your campaign world is likely to end up with substitute elves who meet i) through iv).

 

As for (v), the grenades thing is a dig at Warhammer 40k Eldar.

[Steve]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

It's long seemed likely to me that many of the races present in the Turakian Age could be the result of deliberation genetic manipulation' date=' not just by gods and wizards, but by the Progenitors and the Elder Worm, both of whom are known to have messed with evolution on Hero Earth. For that matter, some of the weirder races could have originally been servants of the Worm from other planets, whom they brought with them when they came to Earth.[/quote']

 

I like the idea of using the Progenitors and Elder Worm in the place of the Shadow World's Ancients.

 

A creepy feel for magic (or maybe just certain types of magic) could be having Elder Worm genes as a prerequisite for the gift of magic. At this point in history, they haven't spread to all humans.

[The Main Man]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

The fact that elves, dwarves, and gnomes seem to change with every setting is why I like the idea of them all being the same race that simply adapts to different environmental or elemental niches.I think Orcs and Goblins could be merged for the same reasons. The Erqigdlit could fulfill much the same niches. Maybe remove Trolls all together, our more appropriately just change their role in the world.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

 

To get the ball rolling, something about the Turakian Age setting always felt bloated. It's detailed to be sure, but it feels like an impenetrable wall of a setting - it feels too detailed; too complex to run without forgetting facts and details that will need to be retconned back into the setting once realized. I think the setting could lose a few races such as the Pakasa and the Leomachi. Furthermore, I feel like there are a few too many human ethnicities to properly keep track of them all. I'd have to give more thought to which could be cut with minimal effect.

 

Apparently, you've never read/played/run ICE/Terry K. Amthor's Shadow World campaign setting. Talk about detailed (or as you say, "bloated"). To me this is not a bad thing. The more actual stuff going on in the campaign setting, the better I am able to pick up on a thread I like to develop into a full campaign scenario. Shadow World is chocked full of those. I never lack for ideas with that setting.

 

I would love to play this game, but I don't know much about Turakian Age. I have it, but have yet to read it in full. I should probably do that in the very near future.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

The fact that elves' date=' dwarves, and gnomes seem to change with every setting is why I like the idea of them all being the same race that simply adapts to different environmental or elemental niches.I think Orcs and Goblins could be merged for the same reasons. The Erqigdlit could fulfill much the same niches. Maybe remove Trolls all together, our more appropriately just change their role in the world.[/quote']

 

If you were to apply real-world logic to Ambrethel (a questionable tack, I admit ), the fact that Men are interfertile with Elves, Orcs, even Trolls (as represented by the appropriate Half-X Package Deals), and that Orcs, Ogres, and Trolls are known to interbreed, suggests that all of them come from the same root stock. That would certainly be consistent with the concept of deliberate genetic alteration to create these races.

 

Here are a couple of other interesting racial points relevant to the setting. One, the race of Gnomes was actually the product of cross-breeding by Dwarves and Halflings, which proved able to breed true. Two, one of the immortal Empyreans alive on present-day Champions Earth, Brax, was born during the Turakian Age from an Orc mother. And he looks it. (See Hidden Lands for more on Brax.)

[Lord Liaden]

Re: LET'S HACK: The Turakian Age

 

I would love to play this game' date=' but I don't know much about Turakian Age. I have it, but have yet to read it in full. I should probably do that in the very near future.[/quote']

 

You'll need to set aside a good chunk of time. There's a lot to absorb, and it's highly interconnected.

 

I greatly appreciate that there are many, many potential plotlines spread throughout the setting, ranging in scope from the purely local all the way up to world-shaking events only a step or two below Kal-Turak himself, such as the threat of Vashkoran holy war or the freeing of the gods of Thun, or on Mitharia the imperial expansion of Orumbar. There's no need for the Ravager of Men to drive any scale of campaign if you don't want him.