Ndreare Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 As a GM I have rules that Grab is just a maneuver so grabbing with TK suffers the same modifiers as anyone else using the maneuver. Basically you are concentrating or whatever else happens but in the end you suffer the same penalty. However with a player feeling cheated, I figured it was worth getting some more opinions, on if there is a good argument against it. PS: The idea of buying Penalty Skill levels or DCV only to ignore grab penalty is "Just Wrong" to the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Re: Grabbing With TK opinions wanted According to the rules as written, the GM is correct. Maneuver CV penalties apply when using TK. I don't have a strong opinion about whether it should be handled differently in some particular campaign. It might seem more "logical" for the attacker with TK to suffer less DCV penalty (or none at all) than an attacker using STR would. But I would probably stick with having the penalties apply, for the same reason that Desolid characters can't affect solid with Mental Powers or Sense-Affecting Powers, even though solid characters can affect Desolid characters with them: simple game balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Re: Grabbing With TK opinions wanted What Derek said. Conceptually there should be little if any DCV penalty, but for balance sake you can't ignore it. If you want a TK hold that doesn't hurt your DCV, the straight-forward way is to buy extra levels in DCV, only useable with TK Grab. For something fancier, buy an Entangle, Transparent to Damage(+1), linked to Flight, Useable Against Others, where the shut-off condition of the Flight is breaking out of the Entangle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Re: Grabbing With TK opinions wanted Something else to consider.... Martial Arts (only) usable with Telekinesis. see example in this link: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/72770-350-point-jedi?p=1835525#post1835525 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndreare Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Re: Grabbing With TK opinions wanted Something else to consider.... Martial Arts (only) usable with Telekinesis. see example in this link: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/72770-350-point-jedi?p=1835525#post1835525 We used a magic system once that was all based off of common Psi abilities. And for all the powers, you bought martial arts to show mastery with your Electro, Pyro or Tele-kinesis as well as Telepathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Re: Grabbing With TK opinions wanted yes, the character should be affected by all the relevant penalties involved. However I would rule that if the player doesn't want his character to be affected by the penalties (holding on to the target is effortless) the character can use their TK's casual STR to hold the target, at which point they can act freely with no penalty to other actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Re: Grabbing With TK opinions wanted Explain it to the player this way. Someone with Stretching who wishes to grab someone must pay the penalties. It makes sense that the person with TK would face the same penalties as the person with stretching. Also, they Don't have to just grab with TK they can also use it to punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Re: Grabbing With TK opinions wanted Why not use Entangle with the special effect it's TK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Re: Grabbing With TK opinions wanted I just realized I was having a brain freeze in this thread. I should have noted that the standard maneuver penalties (-1 OCV, -2 DCV) apply when making the Attack Roll with a Grab via TK, but a Grab with TK does not reduce the attacker's DCV after a successful Grab. See CC page 89 or 6E1 page 295. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndreare Posted November 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Re: Grabbing With TK opinions wanted I just realized I was having a brain freeze in this thread. I should have noted that the standard maneuver penalties (-1 OCV' date=' -2 DCV) apply when making the Attack Roll with a Grab via TK, but a Grab with TK does [b']not[/b] reduce the attacker's DCV after a successful Grab. See CC page 89 or 6E1 page 295. You know I never realized. Well, I guess that would pretty much make the case for the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Re: Grabbing With TK opinions wanted I just realized I was having a brain freeze in this thread. I should have noted that the standard maneuver penalties (-1 OCV' date=' -2 DCV) apply when making the Attack Roll with a Grab via TK, but a Grab with TK does [b']not[/b] reduce the attacker's DCV after a successful Grab. See CC page 89 or 6E1 page 295. I knew that was the case in the 5th edition, but wasn't sure if that was changed in the 6th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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