Step between WF and MA

[mhd]

My current HERO Fantasy campaign is patterned a bit after two old D&D adventures: X1 - Isle of Dread and N4 - Treasure Hunt. The first implies an island full of dinosaurs and savage tribes, the latter a start-from-scratch, pick your career attitude. So the point budgets are rather low, but increase steadily, giving everyone the chance to learn their trades from the ground up. Given the territory, though, there might not be a specialized teacher...

 

This made me yearn a bit for an intermediate step between mere Weapon Familiarity (I don't use the weapon group option) and a full-fledged martial art. Combat Skill Levels are a possibility (3 pointers, probably), especially if you then trade the points in for MA maneuvers.

 

So WF -> +1 CSL -> +2 CSL -> 10 points in MA maneuvers, then either add new ones or get a proper MA CSL.

 

Another idea I had was some kind of basic maneuvers for certain weapons. This in turn would be used to emphasize the strengths and weaknesses of the weapon. Let's call that Combat Training and say that you get two fixed maneuvers. CT(sword) would have Block and a Martial Strike, CT(axe) might have Martial Strike + Sacrifice Strike etc. Weapon combinations/styles might be a possiblity, too, so you could have a CT(shield & sword).

 

As this would be the basic training, the first step one does after you stop hitting yourselves, cost should be kept down. This probably means two 3 point maneuvers, sometimes specially created lesser versions of the more expensive basic MA moves. Not sure how "risky" it is to actually break the limitation that no MA maneuver can cost less than 3 points. Transgressing that rule would make for a neat 5 point base package (WF+CT). Otherwise it's 7-8 points, same cost as WF + 2 levels of CSL.

 

know that you aren't strictly limited to buy MA's with a 10 point minimum after creation, and so I could just list which maneuvers you're likely to learn first. Still, some of those might be of the 4 or 5 point variant, and I would like to make a distinction between the basic version and a proper martial art. For one, almost anyone can teach you the basic version, making this the difference between e.g. militia training and a proper weapons instructor. As the moves are fixed, you know what to expect from the grunts. (One intention I didn't mention was making it easier for HERO newbs and players who'd like a bit more guidance than "you know nothing, now find something to spend your points on". Just like pre-made spells and powers.)

[Ninja-Bear]

On the web along time ago, someone wrote up martial maneuvers as powers and put them in a multipower. Perhaps that approach would work? At first buy a skill at x points and when they accumulate enough points, then put them in a mulitipower framework. Also don't forget, you can create custom martial skills. If you want a basic skill perhaps create a custom skill that is between 1-2 points.

[Christopher]

Continuing where Ninja-bear left of:

Personally I think that Martial Arts and CSL are in fact Miniature Multipowers.

 

Compare 2 10-point-CSL to this:

13 Combat Multipower:

2v +2 OCV, 10 AP

2v +2 DCV, 10 AP

2v +1 DC generic Damage, 13 AP

 

All other CSL are limited down from that.

 

 

Martial Arts as Multipower:

Hero System Martial Arts (HSMA 110) list the rules needed to remake Martial Arts as a Power Framework.

 

 

Personally I would not try to work in those low power areas too much. Compared to D&D HERO has a very low granularity in the first palce (every +1 equals a D&D +2). And going low point only makes this issue more pronounced.

[Christougher]

I've built but haven't had the chance to playtest a martial arts style built on 1-2 point maneuvers. To me, this seems to exactly fit what you want, with the very slight effect from such a low point maneuver - +1 DC or CV. They can upgrade/replace those maneuvers with better ones as they gain XP.

 

Chris.

[Old Man]

You could also consider just ignoring the 10-point minimum buy for martial arts altogether. I've seen this several times with people just starting to pick up a martial art, where they learn one maneuver, like a side kick, and for the duration of a sparring session all they do is throw side kicks because it's all they got. You'd still have to do something for balance purposes, like limit this to 3-point maneuvers or else impose a predictability penalty after the first couple of side kicks.

[IndianaJoe3]

You could also consider just ignoring the 10-point minimum buy for martial arts altogether. I've seen this several times with people just starting to pick up a martial art, where they learn one maneuver, like a side kick, and for the duration of a sparring session all they do is throw side kicks because it's all they got. You'd still have to do something for balance purposes, like limit this to 3-point maneuvers or else impose a predictability penalty after the first couple of side kicks.

You could require the first maneuver to be something defensive, like a Block or Dodge. The second one can be offensive, but you're also approaching the 10-point minimum at that stage.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I would also recommend ignoring the 10pt minimum rule for martial arts and just allow your players to purchase maneuvers as they encounter a teacher or begin to develop their own style.

 

There are also combat Talents they can buy as well. see fantasy hero for some samples of those.

[mhd]

I would also recommend ignoring the 10pt minimum rule for martial arts and just allow your players to purchase maneuvers as they encounter a teacher or begin to develop their own style.

 

That still leaves us with a proper martial art in the end. And would either require a good, full-fledged teacher or for me as  GM to allow developing it all on your own, which I'm a bit reluctant to do for beginning characters (if you're already the master of the Eagle Claw and the Seven Fists of the Iron Mountain, I've got no problem if you come up with the Harmonious Way of the Clouds).

 

My desire would be for something less flexible and even less powerful than even a subset of the proper MA associated with the fighting style or weapon. For some MA's it might be possible to pick both basic and less exotic moves for the basic training version (so no botta segrete NNDs or +4DC attacks maybe), but styles with a more limited selection this would be hard to do.

 

So I think if I'm going with maneuvers, I probably would have to go with the maneuver construction rules and come up with some 3 pointers. And right now this seems the best way to approach this, as I can't think of a good way to do this with talents or limits on CSLs...

[NuSoardGraphite]

That still leaves us with a proper martial art in the end. And would either require a good, full-fledged teacher or for me as  GM to allow developing it all on your own, which I'm a bit reluctant to do for beginning characters (if you're already the master of the Eagle Claw and the Seven Fists of the Iron Mountain, I've got no problem if you come up with the Harmonious Way of the Clouds).

 

My desire would be for something less flexible and even less powerful than even a subset of the proper MA associated with the fighting style or weapon. For some MA's it might be possible to pick both basic and less exotic moves for the basic training version (so no botta segrete NNDs or +4DC attacks maybe), but styles with a more limited selection this would be hard to do.

 

So I think if I'm going with maneuvers, I probably would have to go with the maneuver construction rules and come up with some 3 pointers. And right now this seems the best way to approach this, as I can't think of a good way to do this with talents or limits on CSLs...

 

 

You could always require a minimum number of Combat Skill Levels purchased before allowing the purchase of Martial Arts maneuvers.

You could also set your Martial Arts maneuvers up as Basic, Intermediary and Advanced maneuvers and require a character to purchase all the basic maneuvers first, then all the intermediary maneuvers before allowing purchase of the Advanced maneuvers.  (I might start doing this).  You could also dictate which particular skills are taught by the Art and at what point in the hierarchy (Basic, Intermediary or Advanced)

 

For example, I'm going to build a Sword Dancer Martial Art

 

Sword Dancer:

 

Basic Maneuvers (requires WF: Swords)

Frappe (Martial Strike) 4pts

Coute de (Martial Dodge) 4pts

Croise (Martial Block) 4pts

 

Intermediate Maneuvers (requires +1 CSL with Swords)

Chasse (Passing Strike) 4pts

Degage (Martial Escape) 4pts

Ecarte (Martial Disarm) 4pts

 

Advanced Maneuvers (requires +2 CSL with Swords, +1 CSL with Sword Dancing)

Sickle (Offensive Strike) 5pts

Efface (Weapon Bind) 3pts

Pique (Defensive Strike) 5pts

 

Skills:

Basic Skills: Defense Maneuver 1 and 2 (5pts), Fast Draw (3) PS: Dancer (3)

 

Intermediate Skills: Defense Maneuver 3 (3), Acrobatics (3), KS: Sword Dancing (3)

 

Advanced Skills: Defense Maneuver 4 (2), Contortionist (3), Rapid Attack (5), Two Weapon Fighting (10)

 

note: may have gotten some maneuver point costs wrong as I didn't have my book in front of me.  This is just to serve as an example on how to do it anyway

[psyber624]

I got bored once and designed an entire TREE of martial arts powers (Kung Fu Temple Styles) with prerequisites, advancement paths, the whole nine yards based upon what was in HSMA. Nothing I would ever try to foist of on my players but it was a fun exercise.

[griffinman01]

You could also consider just ignoring the 10-point minimum buy for martial arts altogether. I've seen this several times with people just starting to pick up a martial art, where they learn one maneuver, like a side kick, and for the duration of a sparring session all they do is throw side kicks because it's all they got. You'd still have to do something for balance purposes, like limit this to 3-point maneuvers or else impose a predictability penalty after the first couple of side kicks.

I, for one, have never worried about the 10 point minimum for Martial Arts.  People pick up tricks on their own all the time, they're not always part of a structured fighting discipline.  A kid growing up in a rough neighborhood probably wouldn't know how to fight properly, but he probably knows enough to throw a kidney punch and get out of a grab.

[Greywind]

And there's forms for that, too; Jailhouse Rock, Dirty Infighting, the standard, nondescript Classic Comic Book Martial Arts.