Hero Systerm Thread on the rpg.site

[phoenix240]

I thought this thread on the pros and cons of the Hero System as viewed by a new comer might be of interest.

 

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=28041

[Nadrakas]

Interesting.  Not "worrying" per se, but interesting.  A good conversation, with pro's & con's on both sides.  For the most part, a good conversation.  I posted a Build for "Novastar" issue (See below).

 

Link to Page 6 of Impressions from a Noob

 

Originally Posted by Novastar

And the inevitable fights over how to build something.

(I.e. when I started, I made a character that was a fighter pilot, so while in a vehicle, he increases the Defensive Value. Now, I figured since it only increased his DCV while in a vehicle, it gets a disadvantage, and I can buy it at reduced cost. Wrong. Since it's "affecting an outside entity", you have to buy a number of expensive advantages, which greatly increases the cost. My +2 DCV in a plane went from 7 points to 37 points, IIRC. It was cheaper to become a Kung-Fu Master, than make the plane a little harder to hit.)

 

 

Build is as follows:

 

Novastar:
Here you go...

Instinctive Pilot: The Pilot is able, on a subconscious level, to fly in and out of a hail of gunfire or the heaviest of enemy flack and come out without a scratch.

Here is the Build:
Instinctive Pilot: +2 DCV, Usable By Other (Any Vehicle of up to 50 Tons; +2 ½) (35 Active Points); Only For An Aircraft Character Is Flying (-2), Requires a Combat Pilot Roll (-1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4). Total 11 Active Points


The DCV can be increased if you want, but as you can see this costs 11 points in the end (ie: Active Points). If a character were to buy +2 DCV just for themselves, then it would cost 10 Active Points. So for a cost of +1 character point, the character can fly his fighter in between bullets & flack (or whatever).



I've been gaming for 35 years now, and there are not too many RPGs that I haven't played. People look at one game and see complexity while others don't. For example, some look at d20 (3.x & 4) and see a lot of options and streamlining, while others see pigeonholing and over complication. The same can go for almost any game system.

"Sigh" I've seen to many "This System Sux" or "This Edition Sux" comments & flame wars, when usually it comes down to what people are used to. My personal preference is for my players to have fun, and that is how I have fun. If they aren't having fun, then no Game System is going to help with that.

I wish that we could all get together somewhere over a drink (Coke, Soda, Beer, whatever) and talk...it would make things a whole lot easier.

Peace.


~ M

 

 

Anyway, as phoenix240 said, this is interesting.  If you're interested in getting more people to play the Hero System, then engage others in friendly conversation & explain the system.  Show them it's versatility along with it's ability to lend itself to any Genre or Game Style.  The d20 people "Sell" their Game to non-d20 people all the time...

 

 

~ M

Edited October 20, 2013 by Nadrakas

[phoenix240]

This thread looks fun too.

 

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=28051

 

If I get some free time I might I take a stab at writing up Capt'n Zoit myself

[Sean Waters]

Hero is not complex, but certainly presents itself that way.  Rolling HIGH=GOOD makes more sense to most people who do not play Hero already, but you'll never convince the old guard we should change, no matter how much more commercial it would make the game.

 

The rules really need a good hard editing.  If we remove every repetition of the phrase 'unless the GM rules otherwise', which could be said just the once at the start, we could save about 10 pages.

 

There is, in my opinion, too much effort to balance the game, and it often results in lengthy and often counter-intuitive rules.

 

OK, I could go on.  I love Hero, but I think that the knockers have, if not a point, then at least a platform for justified criticism.

 

I started playing when Hero was Champions and the whole thing came in a quite slim paperback.  There are 'Hero in 2 pages' threads about these boards.  Don't get me wrong - I think that every edition has been an improvement on the last, but that is when I was riding the wave.  Jumping in for the first time, it can look scary, if  posts like this are anything to go by.

 

Hero is not complex to play, but I suspect it feels complex to get into

[Derek Hiemforth]

If we remove every repetition of the phrase 'unless the GM rules otherwise', which could be said just the once at the start, we could save about 10 pages.

Have you seen Champions Complete?

[NuSoardGraphite]

I read some of that thread. i want to rebutt so badly, but i dont want to go on yet another forum. i have too many i visit already.

[NuSoardGraphite]

This thread looks fun too.

 

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=28051

 

If I get some free time I might I take a stab at writing up Capt'n Zoit myself

Child's play for any regular member of this board.

[Chris Goodwin]

The RPGSite is descended from RPG.net, in a way... 

 

RPG.net has improved greatly in the past few years, mainly due to the problem folk having been permanently banned from there over the years.  

 

The RPGSite is made up almost entirely of those perma-banned RPG.net posters.  

 

Handle With Extreme Care.

[bigbywolfe]

Most toxic RPG forum I have ever seen.  Not worth your time unless you want to be called a "f***ing retard" or accused of being a "Storygame 'Swine'" who is trying to destroy real RPGs anytime you disagree with anyone on anything.  And that's coming from the guy who runs the place...

[Derek Hiemforth]

Yeah, I took one look at the thread and determined that I had no interest in participating in the thread or returning to the site.

[Nadrakas]

The RPGSite is descended from RPG.net, in a way... 

 

RPG.net has improved greatly in the past few years, mainly due to the problem folk having been permanently banned from there over the years.  

 

The RPGSite is made up almost entirely of those perma-banned RPG.net posters.  

 

Handle With Extreme Care.

Nitroglycerin?

[Nadrakas]

I've made a few posts, and only one negative comment so far.  Looking thru the rest of the site, it is full of vitriol...and I fully expect this one do devolve.

 

(Shrug) I'm thick skinned (for the most part).

 

Their argument is...well, flawed in many aspects.  Digging down, most of it comes down to how individual GMs handle things -- which is equally true across all Games - whether they are point based like Hero & GURPS or Level based like d20 or Palladium.  A GM can make or break a character/game...and thus turn a person off to it.  An individual game system doesn't stand on it's own, it needs a group of people willing to work together.  I've seen good groups take supposedly "bad" game systems and have awesome games, while other groups (not bad...just...uncooperative w/each other) take a supposedly awesome system and have horrible game sessions.  Each group came away either liking the game or hating it -- guess which one, in which case...

 

It's all about the group of people -- the system, in the end, is secondary.  Give me a good group of players & I we can have one hell of a Campaign!!!

 

Peace.

 

~ M

[NuSoardGraphite]

I've made a few posts, and only one negative comment so far.  Looking thru the rest of the site, it is full of vitriol...and I fully expect this one do devolve.

 

(Shrug) I'm thick skinned (for the most part).

 

Their argument is...well, flawed in many aspects.  Digging down, most of it comes down to how individual GMs handle things -- which is equally true across all Games - whether they are point based like Hero & GURPS or Level based like d20 or Palladium.  A GM can make or break a character/game...and thus turn a person off to it.  An individual game system doesn't stand on it's own, it needs a group of people willing to work together.  I've seen good groups take supposedly "bad" game systems and have awesome games, while other groups (not bad...just...uncooperative w/each other) take a supposedly awesome system and have horrible game sessions.  Each group came away either liking the game or hating it -- guess which one, in which case...

 

It's all about the group of people -- the system, in the end, is secondary.  Give me a good group of players & I we can have one hell of a Campaign!!!

 

Peace.

 

~ M

That's the key.

 

A group with great synergy and a decent GM will have fun playing any game.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Yeah, I took one look at the thread and determined that I had no interest in participating in the thread or returning to the site.

I've found other sites to have a similar dynamic.  We really are spoiled here.  As with anything where humans socialize, we have our share of clashes and confrontations, but for the most part, the discourse at this site is so much more civil and productive than the discussions I've seen at other message boards, it makes me wonder if Hero attracts a certain type of roleplayer that is more accepting of differing opinions than the players of other RPG's.  That can't be it, so why are the members of this message board so much more reasonable and pleasant?

[bigbywolfe]

I've found other sites to have a similar dynamic.  We really are spoiled here.  As with anything where humans socialize, we have our share of clashes and confrontations, but for the most part, the discourse at this site is so much more civil and productive than the discussions I've seen at other message boards, it makes me wonder if Hero attracts a certain type of roleplayer that is more accepting of differing opinions than the players of other RPG's.  That can't be it, so why are the members of this message board so much more reasonable and pleasant?

For one thing the guy who runs this board doesn't allow us to call each other "f-ing retarded" and then agree as he accuses you of being a Swine.

[Nadrakas]

I've found other sites to have a similar dynamic.  We really are spoiled here.  As with anything where humans socialize, we have our share of clashes and confrontations, but for the most part, the discourse at this site is so much more civil and productive than the discussions I've seen at other message boards, it makes me wonder if Hero attracts a certain type of roleplayer that is more accepting of differing opinions than the players of other RPG's.  That can't be it, so why are the members of this message board so much more reasonable and pleasant?

Forum Equilibrium: Mind Control 15d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), MegaScale (Radius) (1" = 1,000 km; +1), Area Of Effect (76" Radius; +1 1/2) (300 Active Points); IIF (Hero Games Servers) Immobile (-1 1/4), Limited Power Only to Maintain Peace on the Forums (-1), Conditional Power Mind Control Only Works on Targets Logged Into Hero Forums (-1), No Range (-1/2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)

 

(I know...this could probably be done better...but it's late...I'm tired...bed calls...)

 

~ M

[Chris Goodwin]

I've found other sites to have a similar dynamic.  We really are spoiled here.  As with anything where humans socialize, we have our share of clashes and confrontations, but for the most part, the discourse at this site is so much more civil and productive than the discussions I've seen at other message boards, it makes me wonder if Hero attracts a certain type of roleplayer that is more accepting of differing opinions than the players of other RPG's.  That can't be it, so why are the members of this message board so much more reasonable and pleasant?

 

I think it's partly that we, the general readership of the board, have made a concerted effort to be so, and have for a long time.  I think it's also partly that the folks who can't have gotten banned over the years.  

[mhd]

Are there any really bad sites focusing on one system? I think most of arguments arise out of the usual setting/system/edition holy wars. This forum only has the last of that unholy trinity, and that mostly in an evolutionary sense, i.e. no big upheavals that resulted in a different playing style or target demographic.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Are there any really bad sites focusing on one system? I think most of arguments arise out of the usual setting/system/edition holy wars. This forum only has the last of that unholy trinity, and that mostly in an evolutionary sense, i.e. no big upheavals that resulted in a different playing style or target demographic.

Yes. Try going to the White Wolf forums. Those guys over there have some serious problems. Mainly, they sit there and discuss the settings, signature characters etc until they come to a consensus, usually by way of brow-beating from a few bullys, and if anyone new comes into the forum with a differing perspective on the setting material, that person is WRONG and immediately and irrevocably MUST see things the way THEY want you to, and if you don't they will attack every post you make until you relent or give up coming to the site.

 

They don't know what to do with me, however, because I will neither relent, nor quit the field. I continue to post my opinions on matters, quite frequently, despite their best attempts at converting me to their belief system.

[lemming]

Have you seen Champions Complete?

 

Did finish reading CC and found it to be very good.  Pretty much all of the good from the full set in a concise format.

[Uthanar]

Yes. Try going to the White Wolf forums. Those guys over there have some serious problems. Mainly, they sit there and discuss the settings, signature characters etc until they come to a consensus, usually by way of brow-beating from a few bullys, and if anyone new comes into the forum with a differing perspective on the setting material, that person is WRONG and immediately and irrevocably MUST see things the way THEY want you to, and if you don't they will attack every post you make until you relent or give up coming to the site.

 

They don't know what to do with me, however, because I will neither relent, nor quit the field. I continue to post my opinions on matters, quite frequently, despite their best attempts at converting me to their belief system.

 

Never really posted on those forums, but from the visits that I have had there I saw a very different thought than my experience with White Wolf games. 

[Nadrakas]

Yes. Try going to the White Wolf forums. Those guys over there have some serious problems. Mainly, they sit there and discuss the settings, signature characters etc until they come to a consensus, usually by way of brow-beating from a few bullys, and if anyone new comes into the forum with a differing perspective on the setting material, that person is WRONG and immediately and irrevocably MUST see things the way THEY want you to, and if you don't they will attack every post you make until you relent or give up coming to the site.

 

They don't know what to do with me, however, because I will neither relent, nor quit the field. I continue to post my opinions on matters, quite frequently, despite their best attempts at converting me to their belief system.

Agree wholeheartedly.  And it's worse between those of the different parts of the WoD (Vampire vs Werewolf, vs Changeling, vs Exalted vs Whatever...).  I play the system...but jeesh.

[Nadrakas]

Never really posted on those forums, but from the visits that I have had there I saw a very different thought than my experience with White Wolf games. 

I've only visited off and on over the years.  For the most part I just don't post on the WW Site...I go back, hoping things change, but they don't.  "Sigh"

 

Peace.

 

 

~ M