Magic system

[steph]

Just want to know for your magic system did you use power framework or not ? And what is your reasons to not use power framework 

 

Steph

[Kraven Kor]

Yes.  

 

I use VPP's exclusively for spellcasters, unless it is a character that "just knows a few tricks."

 

I have no reason to "not use frameworks" as I do use them; if you meant to say "what is your reason to use or not use" then:

 

I use VPP's because I prefer magic to be open-ended, allow for player creativity, etc.  I want magic as "shaping reality by force of will" and thus the inherent versatility of VPP's is the only way to go.

[steph]

Kraken the magic user have to make is spell before or he is totally free to do what he wants ?

[NuSoardGraphite]

I use multi-power.

 

The multi-power represents the amount of magical energy or essence that a mage can manipulate.  the amount of spells they have going at once is determined by this amount.

 

The buy-in on a multipower is fairly significant at the start having to pay for both the pool and the individual slots (spells).  however, after character creation, it doesnt take much to buy a new slot or to increase the pool itself slightly.  the progression is very good within the context of a magic system where you want mages to collect a large repetoire of spells, but do want some control over exactly how many.  and no matter how many individual spells they collect, they are still limited by the points in the pool.

 

Campaign required limitations on magic and spellcasting can be placed directly on the pool, reducing the cost of the pool significantly, making them affordable in even point limited games.  Specific limitations on individual spells can be placed in the individual slots netting the player sligbht discounts for their spells.

 

Power pool magic systems can easily be coupled with energy management type magic systems, where  fluctuations in the background energy can affect the number of points available in the pool, limiting mages (or boosting them) without crippling them entirely (or making them godlike).

 

There's actually more i could discuss, but i'm out of time!

[Lucius]

 

Right now I'm running Turakain Age, and although it IS heavily houseruled I AM trying to stick to the setting and Rules as Written as much as I can - so no, no frameworks.

 

If I were building my own system from scratch, though, I might use frameworks. Priests would either get a Variable Power Pool with No Conscious Control, or just have one or more Deities as a "Contact." Magi might get Multipowers or Variable Power Pools.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Multipalindromedary

[Vondy]

I have primarily used skill based systems.

[Markdoc]

I've used frameworks extensively.

Multipowers are very good for the traditional RPG mage with many, defined spells, but have other uses

VPPs are good for magic systems that either have many, many defined spells, or which allow significant flexibility.

Spells bought straight usually require quite a lot of limitations to be competitive with frameworks, but also have their place - they're good for "casters" who have one special power.

 

All of these different approaches can coexist quite comfortably in the same game, in the same party, or even in the same character.

 

cheers, Mark

[Ndreare]

Just about every creature in the bestiary and every printed NPC uses frameworks (okay mabey closer to 50%), it would be wrong of me to deny them to my players.

 

So far just about every magic system I have seen with the exception of Turakian Age uses them, and even Turakian age uses them for specific spells, and offsets  the cost of spells to make up for the lack of frameworks by reducing the cost of spells to 33%

[bluesguy]

I am designing a new campaign setting and that also means a magic system.  I have three basic premises associated with the magic system.  The first is that the magic is specific to individual races and/or cultures.  Each culture has a 'power level' (maximum active points) for different types of spells (offensive, defensive, sensing, movement, etc.) The second is a character with a talent for magic (i.e. they pay for a talent) can get a VPP which allows them to have a wide variety of spells. The talent has to be part of the character creation process. For other characters it is possible to learn a spell or three - but they can't be bought in a framework and they have some extra limitations. 

 

My intention is to insure that there aren't generic magic users in this world and that there is plenty of people who have some minor magic as well.

[steph]

Vondy how work  skill based system, ?

[NuSoardGraphite]

Vondy how work  skill based system, ?

A skill based system is where you design each individual spell and each spell has an associated skill.  When you purchase the skill for that particular spell, you gain the ability to cast it.  

 

The advantages of that system is that each individual spell cost only 3pts (or thereabouts) to learn.  the disadvantages are that the power level of each individual spell is not taken into consideration.  a 20 active point spell and a 200 active point spell cost the same.  however, if you account for the active point penalty for each spll, the more powerful spells cost a lot more to cast them at the same level as a lower powered spell.

[Vondy]

Vondy how work  skill based system, ?

 

In such systems, each spell is an individual 3/2 cost-base skill. The skill roll is modified by the active points of the spell. To avoid breaking the bell-curve, keep spell skill rolls in tune with the rest of the system, and avoid extremely high spell costs for more powerful spells I have traditionally limited the AP penalty to -1 for every 20AP in the spell. Access to powerful spells -- and campaign changers / breakers -- can be handled by restricting in-game access to them and/or setting prerequisite spells that have to be purchased first. Also, while the initial spell cost seems cheap, this can be deceptive. Players tend to want higher skill rolls to ensure success, and a broad character with several spells can sometimes end up spending more than if you just went with a framework. Consider this. A wizard with a 20 INT and 10 spells at 15- will spend 70 active points! 20 spells? 140 active points! The result, therefore, tends to be narrower Mages than one would otherwise expect. This can be mitigated by allowing skill levels with different schools of magic, or all magic. Another tack you can take is only requiring skill rolls in unusual circumstances, which is well within the rules as written, IMO. To quote Darren Watts: "Tarzan doesn't fall when running down tree branches, dammit!" I generally use the "Tarzan Rule" in my games.

[Nolgroth]

I've used several magic systems depending on the campaign. Some of them use Power Frameworks, some don't. The systems that did not use a framework were because I either wanted magic to be very restricted or I made all characters pay for all of their abilities (sort of like Superheroic games but without the Knockback). I've considered using a Skill system like Vondy described, but haven't gotten around to that yet. I like the idea of only requiring Skill Rolls in unusual circumstances such as Spreading or Pushing. Makes me intrigued enough to start considering how I would use something like that.

[Kraven Kor]

Kraken the magic user have to make is spell before or he is totally free to do what he wants ?

 

Now that depends on the type of caster, and more so on the player than anything.  Thus far, I have not had any players who know the system well enough to do so without my help.

 

Generally, I don't allow anyone to just build something on the spot unless they can do so in seconds and I know the player won't abuse the system or argue with me if I won't allow something.  I have helped those players build things on the fly where appropriate and not halting the game to do so.

 

As to what type of caster can do what in that regard (in my Steampunk Fantasy setting Lostorum):

• "Wizards" who cast spells using arcane formulae and such have to research new spells and spend hours or days experimenting to build a new spell; so they just cannot do anything on the fly beyond maybe alter a spell using the Power: Magic Skill.
• "Sorcerers" who are channeling elemental energy or borrowing their magic from some external source have much more leeway in this (and, accordingly, fewer limitations on the VPP meaning their VPP is more versatile than a wizards, but thus more expensive.)  But even they need a full phase to change powers in the pool.
• "Artificers" who use ancient artifacts to power their effects can only swap out powers in a lab or workshop; so they can't do *anything* on the fly, again beyond what would be allowed by use of their Power: Artifice skill.
• "Incarnates" who channel their power from their faith / God have to pray for their powers; they can generally swap powers out with a full phase action, but can only choose powers fitting to their deity or faith.
• "Incarnates" who are kind of the Hercules or Paul Bunyan's of the world have the most versatility - 0-phase action to change powers, and often no skill roll to change powers; and thus naturally their VPP's are way more expensive.  But these incarnates can only really do "super-human feats" and not "spells."