Resisting poisons

[mhd]

I'd like to talk about alternative ways of handling resistance to poisons and maybe even diseases.

 

Right now, it's most likely to be an all-or-nothing deal, with poison being modeled as NND vs. Life Support, quite often Damage Over Time. Possibly a Drain for the less lethal variants.

Given the unavailability of actual immunity (rather a given in a Heroic campaign), you "resist" the poison by having a sufficient amount of BODY.

 

Well, I'd really like to change this for my fantasy campaigns. I do understand the reason for the Life Support part, and for some creatures or heroes in some settings, this perfectly makes sense. I mean, the Iron Golem certainly will have it. But a bit more granularity for the mere humans/elves/dwarves wouldn't hurt either, something where the players feel like they can "do" something.

 

The most likely solution would be some kind of resistance roll/saving throw. The poison has a certain effectiveness making this harder. The most obvious variant would be a CON roll with a penalty depending on how effective the poison is. This could be active points, but it would be fun to have something that isn't directly related to the poison's lethality (e.g. you could have something that does a lot of damage but is relatively easy to resist).

 

There's also a ternary approach, where its differentiated between succumbing, resisting and resisting partially. Probably more realistic, but not sure whether that's worth it.

 

So, anyone got experience with an approach like this in HERO?

[Christougher]

Scrap the idea of LS vs Poisons, and require poisons/diseases to be built as Adjustment powers.   Then give characters the ability to buy Power Defense for that purpose.

 

Experience with?  Not yet, but that's my house rules for the next Fantasy game I run.

 

Chris.

[mhd]

The bad thing about power defense in this case is that it's totally independent from normal characteristics, i.e. you might be the toughest S.O.B. in the thrice-blessed kingdoms (CON 25), but if you didn't take Poison Defence, you're as likely to succumb to that poison dart than the sickly elf wizard next to you.

 

Or you'll make this ability so common that you'll basically end up with another characteristic. I'm actually doing that for magic in my upcoming campaign, but mostly because the original system used that, too. I'm very wary of ending up with a litany of resistances similar to the AD&D saving throw categories. Hero Designer only has 10 spots for custom characteristics

 

But while we're talking about existing HERO mechanics, maybe Effect Rolls would be another avenue worth looking at. Throw Xd6 of "poison dice" and see by how much you overcome CON (+ Poison Resistance or CON just bought for that?). That gives you potentially several levels of success, which is neat for some mechanics (i.e. STUN damage vs. falling asleep or one-time damage vs. repeated damage over time).

 

Still, might make poisons a bit too complicated. And I'm not sure whether it's just more satisfying if you've got something where the player successfully rolls instead of just having a high enough value. Then again, if it works for PRE attacks...

[Grailknight]

I have experience with Christougher's option and I much prefer it  for three reasons.

 

It puts all Poisons  on equal footing by using a mechanic that isn't necessarily all or nothing.

 

It puts all PC's/NPC's on nearly equal footing while allowing them to shine within their specialty. The deadly poison, high Body guy has the best chance of surviving, truth drug,  the EGO guy, fear toxin, high PRE man will win through.

 

It gives multiple methods of stopping it. If you're using DoT then you define an antidote. Lacking the antidote you can Aid/Healing to counter the effect or Power Defense UoO to mitigate it.

 

Letting CON play a part in resisting is possible. One house rule we used was to make Power Defense a figured based off average CON+BODY/10.

In 6th, I'd probably use CON/5 alone, since it's kinda orphaned without figured characteristics. 

[Steve]

Perhaps you could build the poisons and diseases with activation rolls that can be opposed by CON-rolls? Really scary poisons and diseases could be built without that limitation.

 

I admit this approach is much like a saving throw, but characters could then just buy bonuses to their CON roll that only applies versus poison or only versus disease.

 

Another option would be to take the appropriate LS and give it a CON-based activation roll.

[IndianaJoe3]

I've played with the idea of having poisons use CON as a defense.

[Christougher]

I've played with the idea of having poisons use CON as a defense.

This line reminds me of an idea for revamping mental powers, such that any effect that exceeds Mental Defense is only as annoying/effective as about that much STUN loss.  When the level of effect exceeds EGO, it's a major effect akin to Stunning the target.  Doubling the target's EGO in effect gave the equivalent of a knockout - total Mind Control, complete Mental Illusion, etc. 

 

I only post the thought, because if CON is the defense, how does one determine level of effect or severity?

 

Chris.

[IndianaJoe3]

I only post the thought, because if CON is the defense, how does one determine level of effect or severity?

 

It's a defense in the same way that PD or ED would be for normal damage. 

[Armitage]

The Stinking Vapor power in Champions Powers and other places has Only Applies If Victim Fails CON Roll (-1/2).

 

 

Digital Hero #18 had optional rules for implementing "Saving Throws" in Hero System. 

A somewhat complex Limitation with multiple factors determing the value, and an added die roll.  It's questionable whether the gain during play would be worth the added complexity.

 

The base limitation ranges from -1/2 to -1 1/2, depending on how much a successful roll reduces the effect of the Power, from "up to 49%" to 100%.

There's an additional modifier ranging from an additional -1 for a +4 bonus to the roll to reducing the Limitation by 1 for a -4 penalty on the roll.

 

For example, a poison that allows a CON Roll at -2 to take 25% normal damage would have a -1/2 Limitation; -1 for 50-75% reduction and 1/2 less Limitation for a -2 penalty.

[NuSoardGraphite]

For my campaign, i would make extensive use of house rules to do poisons.

 

They would be resisted by CON rolls.

 

The effect of the poison would depend on how much the con roll failed by. a critical failure would include double the base effect, or a set special effect depending on the substance in question.

 

How much of a "dose" the victim recieves modifies the CON roll. a trace amount might give +3 to the roll or a high amount (double normal) might incur a -3.

 

The potency of the substance in question will modify the CON roll as well.

[Greywind]

 

"That's why I never kiss 'em on the mouth." Jayne Cobb, Firefly: Our Mrs Reynolds