abort to defend question

[Lucius]

I'm still trying to understand how "put levels on DCV and Dodge" can be understood as more than one action.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

It's like saying the hump isn't part of the palindromedary

[ghost-angel]

Action 1: Change CSL to DCV

Action 2: Dodge Maneuver

[bigdamnhero]

Action 1: Change CSL to DCV

Action 2: Dodge Maneuver

Right. The fact that the first is a 0 Phase Action makes the distinction irrelevant for most purposes. But changing CSLs is technically a separate action.

[Lucius]

Action 1: Change CSL to DCV

Action 2: Dodge Maneuver

 

Ummm.. yeah. So if I have Combat Skill Levels specifically with Dodge, I am somehow putting them on DCV before I'm actually dodging?

 

I recognize that it's a moot point, but it's something I just don't get.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

It still looks like calling the palindromedary's hump a separate creature from the palindromedary

[ghost-angel]

If you have a CSL specifically with a Maneuver they are applied at the time the Maneuver is used (I would assume that any CSL the applies to one, and only one, Action is always going to be pre-allocated to that Action regardless);

 

If you have CSLs with a group of Maneuvers and need to reallocate them from OCV to DCV, you can perform the 0 Phase Action to adjust them around, which is the gist of the "it's technically two different aspects of the rules, used more or less simultaneously. Hence: Two Actions. One to Adjust, One to Perform Maneuver."

[Tasha]

Right. The fact that the first is a 0 Phase Action makes the distinction irrelevant for most purposes. But changing CSLs is technically a separate action.

 

Which doesn't matter since you are allowed to reallocate your CSLs when you Abort. i.e. Treat the Abort phase as a phase. 

 

from 6e2 pg 21 under aborting an action

"A character may perform more than one defensive Action while Aborting — such as Aborting to Dodge and simultaneously activating a Defense Power — provided they’re not mutually exclusive. For example, a character cannot Abort to Dodge and Block; both are Combat Maneuvers and cannot be performed together."

 

So you could reallocate all of your CSL's that apply into DCV during your abort phase, turn on all of your Defense powers and also Abort to Dodge. NP.

[ghost-angel]

Which doesn't matter since you are allowed to reallocate your CSLs when you Abort. i.e. Treat the Abort phase as a phase. 

 

from 6e2 pg 21 under aborting an action

"A character may perform more than one defensive Action while Aborting — such as Aborting to Dodge and simultaneously activating a Defense Power — provided they’re not mutually exclusive. For example, a character cannot Abort to Dodge and Block; both are Combat Maneuvers and cannot be performed together."

 

So you could reallocate all of your CSL's that apply into DCV during your abort phase, turn on all of your Defense powers and also Abort to Dodge. NP.

 

Yes, but that wasn't in question. The question being answered was "How is it 2 actions?"

[Tasha]

Yes, but that wasn't in question. The question being answered was "How is it 2 actions?"

 

I guess I am missing WHY it's important that it's 2 actions.

[Christopher]

I guess I am missing WHY it's important that it's 2 actions.

The original hangup was that "switching CSL and aborting to dodge is two actions" (wich is true) and "you can only take one action during abort" (wich was false).

Lucius had some lingering problems understanding why they are 2 different actions.

 

I'm still trying to understand how "put levels on DCV and Dodge" can be understood as more than one action.

Because it IS more then one action. It is actions you can combine during a phase, but distinct actions none the less. 0 Phase Action+Half Phase Action that ends turn is two actions plain as day. I mean the word action is in there twice, not refering to the same thing

 

I think the main hickup you have here is a mater of terminology:

In a Hero Turn (12 seconds) there is a number of segments (1 second). During some of those segments you take phases.

In a phase you can do any number of 0-phase actions and 2 half phase or one full phase action.

 

You are not aborting (to an) action. You are aborting to your entire next phase. You take your next phase early when aborting, but in turn can only use actions deemed "defensive" by the GM.

 

We say "aborting to Dodge" or "aborting to dive for cover".

But properly it should be "aborting to your next phase and taking the defensive half phase action dodge/dive for cover" (and now you also see why we choose that short form).

[ghost-angel]

And that's as clear an explanation as I think we can make it. Well said.

[Surrealone]

Aye -- good summary.

[Lucius]

So I could, theoretically, abort to my next phase, put all combat levels on Grab, and then Dodge.

 

Or if not aborting, put all combat levels on Dodge, and then perform, say, Disarm or Strike.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I tried removing the hump from a palindromedary, and got an indignant palindromedary

[ghost-angel]

Yes, you can allocate your Combat Skill Levels wherever you want, immediately helpful or otherwise.

[Tasha]

So I could, theoretically, abort to my next phase, put all combat levels on Grab, and then Dodge.

 

Or if not aborting, put all combat levels on Dodge, and then perform, say, Disarm or Strike.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I tried removing the hump from a palindromedary, and got an indignant palindromedary

You can't perform attack actions while aborting. So no disarms or Strikes.

[Surrealone]

You can't perform attack actions while aborting. So no disarms or Strikes.

 

I understand strikes, but if someone's attacking you with a weapon, disarming them so they cannot strike you with it seems pretty defensive to me (even though it requires an attack roll).  As a result, I'm baffled by this text on page 149 of CC:

 

Disarm is not typically considered a “defensive action” that a character can Abort to, so Disarming in incoming attack requires a Held Action, the characters make DEX Rolls to see who goes first, and so on.

 

 

 

Despite RAW, there's always GM prerogative on it.  I'm pretty sure some would allow disarm to be a defensive action in certain circumstances -- especially where it enhanced cinematic/dramatic effect.

[TheDarkness]

I would view disarm as an offensive action. Without a held action, if one wanted to do it, I would say they should spend the points to make a triggered disarm or something like that. I view a disarm as not defensive because, in fact, you are not merely avoiding the attack, you are also affecting the attacker(and especially, depriving them of their focus). At that point, the same argument could be used to simply make any attack a defensive action, as an unconscious attacker cannot attack.

 

That's my view on it.

[TheDarkness]

I think a better example. If we accept disarm as a defensive action(in short, taking away the points of the focus to prevent the attack without it being a held or triggered action), then logically, a drain against someone trying to energy blast you is also a defensive action, since it is essentially the same thing in terms of how it affects the other person. Except it's weaker, because the drain will go away on its own, but the disarmed person absolutely will not get the points of their focus back except by physically being reunited with it. So there would be NO fair argument for not allowing the drain as a defensive action, if one allows disarm as one.

[bigdamnhero]

I think a better example. If we accept disarm as a defensive action(in short, taking away the points of the focus to prevent the attack without it being a held or triggered action), then logically, a drain against someone trying to energy blast you is also a defensive action, since it is essentially the same thing in terms of how it affects the other person. Except it's weaker, because the drain will go away on its own, but the disarmed person absolutely will not get the points of their focus back except by physically being reunited with it. So there would be NO fair argument for not allowing the drain as a defensive action, if one allows disarm as one.

Well argued!

 

That said, I see myself allowing PCs to abort to Disarm but only in extreme circumstances, like say if the bad guy is about to shoot Aunt May so they're Aborting to protect someone else. But yeah, only in rare, dramatically-appropriate situations.

[Tasha]

Well argued!

 

That said, I see myself allowing PCs to abort to Disarm but only in extreme circumstances, like say if the bad guy is about to shoot Aunt May so they're Aborting to protect someone else. But yeah, only in rare, dramatically-appropriate situations.

 

Though in that case I would probably have you do a Melee block to knock the gun aside/ ruin the aim. Then you would go before the blocked person in the next phase where you would then disarm or perform the takeaway maneuver.

[Lucius]

You can't perform attack actions while aborting. So no disarms or Strikes.

 

Emphasis added 

 

So I could, theoretically, abort to my next phase, put all combat levels on Grab, and then Dodge.

 

Or if not aborting, put all combat levels on Dodge, and then perform, say, Disarm or Strike.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I tried removing the hump from a palindromedary, and got an indignant palindromedary

[TheDarkness]

Well argued!

 

That said, I see myself allowing PCs to abort to Disarm but only in extreme circumstances, like say if the bad guy is about to shoot Aunt May so they're Aborting to protect someone else. But yeah, only in rare, dramatically-appropriate situations.

Thanks! In fairness, reading the forum here has definitely informed my understanding of the system and some of the pitfalls that can arise.

 

In gameplay, I could totally see there being a circumstance where I allowed it, more out of "yeah, this would be kind of the perfect dramatic moment for this, and this poor player has rolled terribly today, I'm giving the guy a break."

 

I hate when a good player has a streak of games where all their good ideas fail solely due to a horrible streak of bad luck.

[Tasha]

Thanks! In fairness, reading the forum here has definitely informed my understanding of the system and some of the pitfalls that can arise.

 

In gameplay, I could totally see there being a circumstance where I allowed it, more out of "yeah, this would be kind of the perfect dramatic moment for this, and this poor player has rolled terribly today, I'm giving the guy a break."

 

I hate when a good player has a streak of games where all their good ideas fail solely due to a horrible streak of bad luck.

 

Heroic Action points, can help with this issue. Where everything comes to one roll and the Player rolls an 18 and borks the roll. They spend the points for a re roll and/or a bonus to the roll.

[TheDarkness]

Heroic Action points, can help with this issue. Where everything comes to one roll and the Player rolls an 18 and borks the roll. They spend the points for a re roll and/or a bonus to the roll.

Oh, definitely. I've just had a couple players, in the past, whose bad luck streak in rolling went well past how many hero points could reasonably be given out.

 

It's the worst when someone has a character whose whole existence is marked by the most atrocious rolls.

[Tasha]

Oh, definitely. I've just had a couple players, in the past, whose bad luck streak in rolling went well past how many hero points could reasonably be given out.

 

It's the worst when someone has a character whose whole existence is marked by the most atrocious rolls.

 

When I play hero I use Casino Quality D6s. So if we have a player that can't roll high. I'll hand them 3 of the Casino Dice. It usually helps

[TheDarkness]

When I play hero I use Casino Quality D6s. So if we have a player that can't roll high. I'll hand them 3 of the Casino Dice. It usually helps

Ooh, smart!

 

I'll have to get me some.