Seeing sub-atomic particles

[Scott Anderson]

A character can see subatomic particles.  He can see cells, molecules, atoms, protons, neutrons and electrons.

 

In my opinion, there are at least two ways to build it.  The first way to build it is to brute-force it, with lots of Microscopic for Sight Group.  But how much Microscopic is enough to see electrons?  The second way to build it is as a Detect (Sight Group).  

 

If we were to say that the "Microverse" is a different "dimension" like it is in some comic book universes, we have a third way to build the power: Clairsentience might be the way to go.

 

So. 

 

Question #1: Does this power have any in-game use of some great value?  If so, what kinds of things is it good for?

 

Question #2: How do you build it?  

[steriaca]

A character can see subatomic particles. He can see cells, molecules, atoms, protons, neutrons and electrons.

 

In my opinion, there are at least two ways to build it. The first way to build it is to brute-force it, with lots of Microscopic for Sight Group. But how much Microscopic is enough to see electrons? The second way to build it is as a Detect (Sight Group).

 

If we were to say that the "Microverse" is a different "dimension" like it is in some comic book universes, we have a third way to build the power: Clairsentience might be the way to go.

 

So.

 

Question #1: Does this power have any in-game use of some great value? If so, what kinds of things is it good for?

 

Question #2: How do you build it?

Answer #1: If the character is a chemist of some kind, yes. He can see the reactions between chemicals and see if the reaction is exactly what he wants it to be. Also, he can identfie the elements of the periotic table by counting electrons in an atom.

 

Answer #2: Detect Elements. Lighting Calculator (Only To Count Electrons). Sight with lots of Microscopic. I would only give him Transdimentinal Sight if he could see lower that atom parts.

[eepjr24]

You would need about 14-15 levels of magnification to see down to average electron radius:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_electron_radius

 

Probably want Partially Penetrative on it as well?

 

- E

[Scott Anderson]

I wouls say, 12 levels of Microscopic.  People can see things that are 10^-3 meters, so 15-3 = 12.  For Normal Sight, that's 36 Active Points; for Sight Group, it's 60.

 

At that cost, it only makes sense to plonk such a power into some sort of a Variable Power Pool; it doesn't even make sense to put it in a Multipower for most characters.  This is especially true because it doesn't seem to have any strong in-game use, unless there's something juicy I'm missing.

[eepjr24]

By itself? No great in game value. With some KS's added and possible a PS: Molecular Science you could probably use it to figure out things that would and would not work on an opponent, assuming that the molecules were terrestrial and/or known. You could also use it with Forensics to do things like read the body oils on a surface to "see" fingerprints, see and identify residues, pollens, and other minutae that could provide clues.

 

- E

[Scott Anderson]

By itself? No great in game value. With some KS's added and possible a PS: Molecular Science you could probably use it to figure out things that would and would not work on an opponent, assuming that the molecules were terrestrial and/or known. You could also use it with Forensics to do things like read the body oils on a surface to "see" fingerprints, see and identify residues, pollens, and other minutae that could provide clues.

 

- E

See, now that's useful! Thanks.

[NN1]

Careful with senses in power frameworks. Senses can be very powerful when you need them and you can get lots of them cheaply in this way. Don't forget that your subatomic vision built on magnification can be used at ANY level between normal vision and subatomic, so even if subatomic vision is super situational, other levels may not be (maybe you can work out with your GM a lower level of microscopic outside the power framework and have some of it in the framework). I probably would use a multipower rather than a vpp, but that might be because I play 5th ed low to mid power superheros and a 60 point vpp is basically unheard of (it is both super expensive and a headache for some GMs when the players can cut through challenges with a purpose-built power out of nowhere).

If you want to see cells all the way down to subatomic particles, you'll need magnification. "Cells" vary widely in size with the larges (like a human egg cell) being so large that a human can see it without any magnification, if only barely. If you ONLY want to see things on the smallest end of your powers, you should be able to make a custom sense for that purpose for a lot cheaper.

[Hyper-Man]

I like the Detect approach as it is direct and to the point. However, based on how Shrinking characters are suggested to use EDM to build 'Enter the Microverse'* I would recommend using a Interdimensional Sense Adder approach instead.

 

*First seen in The Ultimate Metamorph and later in one of the APG books.

I agree that a high multiple of Microscopic is too expensive for the utility and being a Special Power (like ALL Sensory abilities except Clairsentience) is illegal to be placed within a Framework unless it is part of a Clairsentice build (I would consider this the reverse of applying Megascale to a Sense).

[Hyper-Man]

Here's a character that arguably has such an ability. It could be added to regular senses for a small cost or used in a Clairsentience VPP slot.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/files/file/11-clark-kent-6e-400/

 

HM

[Christopher R Taylor]

Just give them extradimensional sight and treat the microverse as a separate dimension.

[Scott Anderson]

I agree that a high multiple of Microscopic is too expensive for the utility and being a Special Power (like ALL Sensory abilities except Clairsentience) is illegal to be placed within a Framework unless it is part of a Clairsentice build (I would consider this the reverse of applying Megascale to a Sense).

 

 

What happens to a Special Power when you put the Costs END Limitation on it?  Does it become a Standard Power?

[Hyper-Man]

What happens to a Special Power when you put the Costs END Limitation on it?  Does it become a Standard Power?

 

Adding Costs END to a Power makes it obvious/visible when in use.

 

No.

 

I would speculate that the reason for the prohibition is to keep a mechanical 'minimum cost of entry' to help make having these abilities stand out for the few characters that have them.

 

From 6e1 page 161

SPECIAL POWERS

Duplication

Endurance Reserve

Enhanced Senses

Extra Limbs

Flash Defense

Knockback Resistance

Luck

Mental Defense

Power Defense

Regeneration

Skills

 

 

If any of these abilities were made legal to put in a Framework (remove the mechanical rule) then there would be little reason to ever do otherwise. The player arguments to add these powers to their character then becomes a special effect one (which can be made for almost any character type).

 

Note that there are legal workarounds for adding equivalent versions of most of the abilities shown to Frameworks.  The only clearly unique ones are Duplication, End Reserve, Extra Limbs, Luck and Skills. All of the defenses can be built as part of Resistant Protection. KB Resistance is also provided by Density Increase and Damage Negation.  Healing with a Self Only Limitation can be easily constructed.  The APG books introduce variants of the Universal Translator Talent that applies to certain types of Skills.  Cramming also already represents a way to temporarily learn certain types of Skills.  What is a Framework if not a way to build a collection temporary abilities?

 

HM

[DShomshak]

I wrote an NPC who could both see subatomic particles and cosmic phenomena (a consequence of an origin that temporarily pushed him outside space and time. "He saw that in some directions the universe was very large, in other directions it was very small, and in one direction it was strawberry." Professor Paradigm would *love* to talk to this guy.) However, he can't control it so as to do anything useful with it. As a result, this suite of exotic sense modes is represented by Spatial Awareness with a KS: Random Cosmological Trivia and a Complication to represent how he suffers distraction by the electrons sloshing in a particle of meteoric iron dust of the warped space-time around a black hole in the center of a distant galaxy.

 

His physicist teammate is *so* frustrated that he can't control these perceptions and lacks the scientific background to give useful descriptions of what he sees.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Hyper-Man]

Here is a 60 Active Point Framework ready Clairsentience build that would work. 

 

 

Super Senses v2:  Clairsentience (Sight Group), +1 to PER Roll, Microscopic:  x1,000,000,000, Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+1/4) (60 Active Points); Limited Power  - Perception Point Always Faces Away From Character (Functions like the Penetrative Advantage. Can't see through Lead; -1/2)
[Notes: +9 Levels of Microscopic as built.  Could be changed to +13 Levels if Costs Endurance Only to Activate is removed.] END 6

 

 

*Note that my rookie version of Superman already has 2 Levels of Microscopic with the Sight Group.

 

HM

[Scott Anderson]

Okay, so we build it as Clairsentience, place an immobile perception point on the character's actual eyes, and then put 12 levels Microscopic on it.  It costs END, but it can fit inside a Multipower or VPP that way.  Have I got that right?

[Hyper-Man]

I think you've got it.

 

Hero Designer makes choosing the various combinations quite easy.

 

HM