Move By Question

[Alverant]

I started a superhero campaign in my group and we have a speedster who likes to grab the guns of multiple gangbangers doing a move by disarm. It worked well the first few times so the bangers were prepared when they tried to ambush the heroes by using velcro. I simulated that with some extra STR to resist disarms. It didn't work out well for them so next time they try an ambush they're going to attach a chain to the gun (probably along the bottom of the handle) and either wrap it around their waist like a belt or secure it to a parking meter, street lamp, fire hydrant etc.

 

So my question is, what happens rules-wise when the speedster suddenly realizes the gun he just grabbed is tied to something heavier? Does he get yanked back like a dog who forgot he was on a choke chain in a Warner Brother's cartoon? Does the chain will snap? Does gangbanger gets dragged along? What?

 

Thanks!

[Greywind]

Whatever works best for your game, citing dramatic and/or cinematic sense.

[Hugh Neilson]

What's the effect of the Disarm? Does Speedster keep all the guns, or just toss them around? If the mooks are going to be able to aim the guns, there must be some slack on the chains, so the chains might have no impact other than making it easier to drag the guns back.

 

First off, it seems like this would be something the hero could see before he attempts the Disarm, so a perception roll. Assuming he Grabs for the guns, I think he would still remove them from the mooks' hands, but if he typically hauls them along, then I think the question is whether he effectively also "grabs" the mook (requiring more STR), if they're just wrapped around the mooks.

 

If they're chained to something stationary, I'd use the Move By rules for damage to see if the chains, guns or anchor object break - the guns may have less DEF/BOD than the chains. If not, the guns are probably yanked out of the Speedster's hands, and still wind up on the ground. If he rolls an 18 to disarm, maybe the yank from the chain knocks him off-balance as the "critical fumble" of such an unlucky result, but failing that, I think the mooks need to go back to the drawing board (and perhaps stop thinking so directly).

[Scott Baker]

Sounds like you're making the guns Obvious INACCESSIBLE foci, rather than accessible. Not only will this have an affect on taking the guns away, it also affects the points.

[Hyper-Man]

I started a superhero campaign in my group and we have a speedster who likes to grab the guns of multiple gangbangers doing a move by disarm. It worked well the first few times so the bangers were prepared when they tried to ambush the heroes by using velcro. I simulated that with some extra STR to resist disarms. It didn't work out well for them so next time they try an ambush they're going to attach a chain to the gun (probably along the bottom of the handle) and either wrap it around their waist like a belt or secure it to a parking meter, street lamp, fire hydrant etc.

 

So my question is, what happens rules-wise when the speedster suddenly realizes the gun he just grabbed is tied to something heavier? Does he get yanked back like a dog who forgot he was on a choke chain in a Warner Brother's cartoon? Does the chain will snap? Does gangbanger gets dragged along? What?

 

Thanks!

 

 

Whatever works best for your game, citing dramatic and/or cinematic sense.

 

In the case of securing the guns to the shooters I think it quite possible that the speedster would pull the shooter off their feet (if the speedster is strong enough to do so).  In the case of securing them to something more solidly attached to the ground it seems reasonable that the speedster could be surprised the first time similar to when Quicksilver grabbed Thor's hammer mid-throw.

 

 

HM

[massey]

They're going to attach a chain to their gun and to a fire hydrant? Really?

 

Honestly, that seems like they're working way too hard to counter one specific move by a hero. Maybe they should work on not getting caught instead. Remember that the speedster could always just punch them instead.

[BoloOfEarth]

Now, see, I'd have one of the gangbanger's guns not work as a gun, but rather be packed with radio-triggered C4...

[massey]

Now, see, I'd have one of the gangbanger's guns not work as a gun, but rather be packed with radio-triggered C4...

Nah. Gangbangers are just simple thugs. They generally shouldn't be a major threat. How are they getting ahold of C4 and a radio triggered detonator anyway?

 

As a GM, you should reinforce good behavior from your players. Disarming street thugs instead of doing a Mach 2 move-by on them is "good behavior".

[Kesedrith]

To counter this move by the speedster, there's always spreading out the thugs, so he can only reach one or two, or having a sniper in place and ready, holding an action, for when he starts that move.  Tag!  Your it!  Seems to be simpler counters than chaining guns to heavy objects.

[Alverant]

They're going to attach a chain to their gun and to a fire hydrant? Really?

 

Honestly, that seems like they're working way too hard to counter one specific move by a hero. Maybe they should work on not getting caught instead. Remember that the speedster could always just punch them instead.

 

Well in a sense the speedster is the biggest threat. I play a little loose with the rules to speed up combat but the speedster is able to disarm 3 or 4 people with one action (and good rolls). When you have a force of 12, that's a significant reduction in firepower. Plus, I figure it's pretty easy to go to your local hardware store and pick up a length of chain. The one near my place has a bunch of different types on spools for your convenience. Plus, there was a fashion fad of using chains as belts so you have a dual purpose. Just clip your gun to your belt and hope it will get yanked out of the speedster's hands when he grabs it.

 

And even if they are just your basic baddies, it doesn't mean there's not a boss who is smarter than the rest pulling the strings and planning ambushes.

[Christopher]

The idea of "anti disarm measures" is not really a new one. Even D&D/Pathfinder has Gauntlets you can properly secure a weapon in:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/gauntlet-locked

You could make this either as extra STR, only vs Disarm or jsut buying off the accessible part of the Focus with a "Naked Buyoff" (wich does cut both ways, btw.).

 

Near the end of the Aizen Ark in Bleach, they also had people Zanpaktous fuse with thier users arm, effectively making them non disarmable (not that disarming there happened there more then once or twice in total).

[Greywind]

Ever hear of a locked gauntlet?