Transport Familiarity for super-heroic characters?

[RogerTerrell]

Champions Complete has the icon beside "Transport Familiarity" that indicates that it's for heroic characters, but the example characters from the "Champions" group have it.

 

Has there been any guidance on how that should be interpreted? Are most people using TF in their super-heroic games?

[mrinku]

"Heroic" really just means "recommended for Heroic campaigns". Many superhero GMs do include "Heroic" rules and TF is a common one.

 

It's up to the GM to decide if they want the extra fiddlyness of bothering with TF in a Superheroic game ,where most characters will either buy their special vehicles or have the combat piloting/driving skill if they're that kind of character. Most of the time characters are self-mobile in any case.

 

Don't take the inclusion of TF on those example writeups as meaning much. If TF isn't in play you'd usually just let the team members operate the V-Jet and let Ironclad use his Combat Piloting skill on any aircraft.

[Hyper-Man]

Combat Driving and Combat Piloting provide TF for the particular vehicle for free.  However, Transport Familiarity does NOT provide combat skill with operating the particular vehicle on its own.  It just gives basic operational ability.   Having members of the team first buy TF before eventually buying the Combat Piloting Skill makes sense.

 

HM

[mrinku]

Oh, for sure. And it's fairly clear that the Champions write-ups assume TF is being used. I'm just making sure that people realise that a basic superhero setting can manage just fine without TF or WF. On the rare occasions it might come up, make a call based on character backgrounds.

[DasBroot]

I feel that in a superheroic game transportation is rarely an issue or even a plot factor - anyone who wants to get somewhere fast has plenty of powers to pick from to fit a theme and if that theme is 'fly my Superplane into a firefight against alien attackers' they've already purchased combat piloting and gotten the TF for free (even if logically they learned the other way around sometime in their past).

 

I'm more than happy to let Green Arrow or Batman pilot anything they come across at a novice level without having to spend dozens of points on vehicles they might encounter once.

 

It's a genre thing to slip into the bad guy's new experimental supertank at his secret base, bang into a few walls getting the hang of it, and break through the lines to make a dramatic escape.

[Tech]

Simple things such as driving a car or truck are freebies in a modern age Champions game for characters. However, being able to pilot a military aircraft should cost the character simply because the average citizen doesn't have access to such machines (not to mention security clearance). You want your character to pilot a tank if you run across it, buy it. Granted for me, if your character bought a vehicle, you can pilot it automatically.

 

As GM, I go out of my way to make the points you spend to be worth it. If I think you're never going to run across that situation, I'll tell them so. Therefore, TF is often bought by the players and I've never heard anyone complain about it. Some players are even pleased with a TF skill, because if someone's going to try to steal their supermotorcycle (for example), it's sure going to be a lot harder when those thugs can't figure out the controls or codes to start it.

 

Not all character concepts allow for a quick personal travel route to destination whatever. This allows the characters to come up with solutions, such as a team jet.

[pinecone]

Huh, and I was going to buy TF: Falling Elevators...because I ride them so often...

[Christopher R Taylor]

I require TF for exotic vehicles in Champions games.  You don't need it for common regular things like a bicycle or car.  You need it to fly the space shuttle or drive a commuter train properly.  Remember that scene in Batman Begins where he takes a batarang to the controls of the elevated train so its jammed full speed?  He had TF: elevated train, so he knew what to do.

[DasBroot]

Yeah, but I'm convinced he has "Because I'm Batman" = an illegal cosmic VPP for skills and a very lenient GM.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Well that, too.  Maybe its a Power skill: Batman

[mrinku]

...or they're just not using TF in that campaign and he made a Combat Driving roll.

 

Speaking of which, CC is silent on the current rules for trying to operate a vehicle without TF, especially when the character has the appropriate Combat operations skill. I assume 6e proper probably mentions it - anyone have the rule?

 

Weapons are -3 OCV for lack of WF, so that's covered.

 

It's fair to allow an attempt at driving a truck when you know how to drive a car, or a jet fighter when you know how to fly a light aircraft... especially in a less rigid genre like Superheroes.

[Hyper-Man]

I can't provide a quote at the moment (I just moved last week and I'm still unpacking as well as prepping for a Hurricane) but I know that 6e1 states in different wording what I mentioned up thread.

 

HM

[Christopher R Taylor]

The 6th edition big book rules say

 

a character with a TF does have an 8- roll for performing dangerous maneuvers (jumps, screeching turns, and so forth).

 

Which suggests to me, you can't even attempt that without the skill.  No roll at all.  But I'd take it beyond that; you can't really even operate a vehicle at all without a TF in a campaign that requires them.  You don't know what any of the levers and buttons and stuff do, its like sitting down in a jumbo jet's cockpit.

 

 

What does all that stuff do?  Who knows?  If the car is already started and moving, you can steer, and if someone is there to help you can brake and accelerate, and that's pretty much it.

[Cantriped]

Champions Complete has the icon beside "Transport Familiarity" that indicates that it's for heroic characters, but the example characters from the "Champions" group have it.

 

Has there been any guidance on how that should be interpreted? Are most people using TF in their super-heroic games?

The rules assumption is that you need TF for any vehicle you did not personally pay CP for (regardless of Campaign Type)*... The reason several example members of the Champions were given TF (The V-Jet) is because the V-Jet, Socrates, and Homestead are assumed to have been given to the Champions for Free (see CC 217) as an encouragement to form a Superteam. Since nobody actually paid for that Vehicle personally, nobody gets TF with it for free either.

 

* It just doesn't come up very often in Superheroic Campaigns because: 

Everyone starts with a single 1-point TF as an Everyman Skill (usually allowing them to drive a car, or possibly a motorcycle instead).

They are assumed to be purchasing any unusual vehicles they possess (which they might have needed TF with) with CP, and therefore get TF with them automatically.

If they don't have a Vehicle (or at least TF with one), they usually have some personal movement power which is better than most vehicles, and therefore eschew them entirely (such as Kinetik; CC 197).

[BoloOfEarth]

In my game, if the players pay points for a vehicle, they automatically can know how to operate it, no TF or WF (for vehicular weapons) need be bought.  And since my players almost never pay points for vehicles, but occasionally steal liberate them from foes, I require them to buy appropriate TF and/or WF to use them properly.  Well, they can try doing things without the appropriate skill or point outlay. 

 

"You want to operate the hyperdrive without TF: Starship or Navigation: hyperspace?  Sure, go ahead!  What's the worst that can happen?"  (evil grin)

[mrinku]

Right. But all that can be handled through character background. It's reasonable for Ben Grimm to figure out the controls of an alien spaceship (which he does more than once in the comics) since he used to be an astronaut, a test pilot and has been flying those crazy gizmos Reed builds for years. He also definitely has Combat Piloting. Saying to his player "Sorry. You've never seen this race's ship before and you can't fly it (RAW)" is just petty roadblocking.

 

And in regard to the Jumbo... even if Ben technically did not have TF: Commercial Airliner, and was relying on TF: Military Jets, TF: Rocket Ships and TF: Crazy Gizmos That Reed Builds, can you honestly argue that in an emergency he'd have no ability to fly that bird and land it?

[Cantriped]

Considering the size of his hands? How does he handle all those human sized controls, switches and toggles anyway.

 

Anyway, TF with every listed category in 6e1 92 (since CC omits such tables for brevity) costs about 34 points (including example Recreational Vehicles). So while it isn't super cheap to be familiar with literally every kind of vehicle and mountable animal in existence, nor is it particularly expensive.

 

Thankfully for Ben Grimm in particular, He can buy every Science Fiction & Space Vehicle​ for just 2 points, and every Air Vehicle he needs for just 3 more points.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Well this is kind of related to the idea I had in another post about giving a flat cost for "everything" in a skill rather than requiring purchase of literally everything.  TF: all vehicles at x cost, rather than needing to figure out and buy all conceivable types of vehicle concepts.

[mrinku]

Considering the size of his hands? How does he handle all those human sized controls, switches and toggles anyway.

 

 

Good clean livin' and sheer awesomeness

 

(The Thing has also been known to use a pen to help with such matters.)

[BoloOfEarth]

Right. But all that can be handled through character background. It's reasonable for Ben Grimm to figure out the controls of an alien spaceship (which he does more than once in the comics) since he used to be an astronaut, a test pilot and has been flying those crazy gizmos Reed builds for years. He also definitely has Combat Piloting. Saying to his player "Sorry. You've never seen this race's ship before and you can't fly it (RAW)" is just petty roadblocking.

 

And in regard to the Jumbo... even if Ben technically did not have TF: Commercial Airliner, and was relying on TF: Military Jets, TF: Rocket Ships and TF: Crazy Gizmos That Reed Builds, can you honestly argue that in an emergency he'd have no ability to fly that bird and land it?

 

In general, I'd consider if a character has a TF that's related to but not exactly what he's doing, I'd allow it with, say, an INT roll, perhaps with a penalty depending on how related they seem, and whether the TF is scaling up or down in complexity.  (As for when the player rolls INT, I would say when they're attempting a specific task (e.g. docking a boat, taking off or landing a plane, etc.)

 

For instance, I'd think TF: Military Jets would be close enough to cover a commercial airliner that I'd allow it with a straight INT roll, and something like TF: Rocket Ships at -1 or -2.  If he only had TF: Small Planes, I'd consider that an INT roll at -1 or -2 to fly the commercial airliner, and INT roll at -3 or -4 to pilot the spaceship. 

 

Conversely, if he had TF: Military Jets, I'd allow TF: Small Planes with either a straight INT roll, or an INT roll +1 or +2.

[BoloOfEarth]

Right. But all that can be handled through character background. It's reasonable for Ben Grimm to figure out the controls of an alien spaceship (which he does more than once in the comics) since he used to be an astronaut, a test pilot and has been flying those crazy gizmos Reed builds for years. He also definitely has Combat Piloting. Saying to his player "Sorry. You've never seen this race's ship before and you can't fly it (RAW)" is just petty roadblocking.

 

On a related note, I'd consider the background with the caveat that the character has spent some points to cover those skills.  Just saying, "He was an astronaut and test pilot before getting his powers" without having Combat Piloting, wouldn't get much slack from me.  (I'd hand-wave some if they're not likely to come into play, but not everything.)

 

In the example of an untrained person trying to operate an alien spaceship, I'm imagining something like the scene in Independence Day where Will Smith is trying to fly the alien ship for the first time, and puts it into reverse by accident.  Or they want to activate the hyperdrive in an emergency.  No Navigation: Hyperspace?  Okay, make an INT roll at -4, with failure not necessarily meaning it doesn't activate.  Perhaps it activates, but dumps them in some strange star system, they have no idea which one.

[DusterBoy]

Or given that last, here's an alternative scenario, from a much beloved movie....

 

"It's [calculating a hyperspace jump] no mean trick. Be nice if we rushed it and passed through a star or some other friendly stellar phenom like a black hole. That'd end our trip real quick."

 

Or bodged it because you were unfamiliar with even the basics of said calculation....