How big a Limitation would you say this is?

[unclevlad]

So here's the concept.  Character name:  Gemini.  Obvious power:  Duplication;  he splits into the twins.  The power in question here is a Teleport, with the limitation Only to the other Twin.  So Castor can teleport to Pollux, or Pollux to Castor.  But that's it.  Side point:  they also have a full Psychic Bond Mind Link, should you think that relevant.  

 

EDIT:  Yes, this also means that when NOT duplicated, the power can't be used.

 

I'm thinking it's a full -2.  Other opinions?

[JmOz]

What seems to be the EASIEST way is a simple Teleport power, Fixed point, with a -1 limitation only to  fixed point (-1/2 if he has a really good movement power elsewhere)

[unclevlad]

Yeah, it is basically to a fixed location as written...so you're saying Only To Fixed Location is only -1 to you?

[JmOz]

There are a couple issues to me, I am assuming the following

 

The Character has relatively normal movement

The Player controls both characters 

 

If it was a fixed location that did not move, or was controlled by another I would feel it is worth more

 

If the character has other movement abilities (Flight, fast vehicle, etc...) then I would feel it is worth less.  

 

It comes down to how useful it is.  Also, and this should not be an issue, how abusive to the system you are (I can build this for about 2 points if you don't mind it taking a little time and be only accurate with in 30')

[Christopher R Taylor]

The location isn't really fixed, it moves with the other twin.  This means it can be used strategically and with intelligent value: one could climb to the top of something, then the other ports up, for instance.  So its not worth the same as a fixed location which is static and immobile.  I'd say -½ to -1, but definitely not -2.  -2 would be like "can only teleport to the top of the space needle" or something.

[Hugh Neilson]

I'm not sold that "only to one fixed location that can never change" is appropriately only -2.  How many people would buy such a power to a location that will not be consistently useful (like "Only back to my home base where I am safe and can heal up", not "only to the center of the city out in the open where an ambush can easily be prepared").

 

It's funny how we will reduce the value of a limitation "because it's not all that limiting", but we would never dream of allowing more than a -2 limitation where the limitation is worse than what a -2 could generally be obtained for.  I'd anticipate (as I think JMOz does) a Megascale teleport, which would not be overly expensive to begin with.

 

How often will this be useful?  If they split up and one is attacked, I suppose.  A Summon in a Multipower slot would be just as useful, or even extra duplicates that can be called up to help out (+5 to double the number of duplicates, with a maximum of 1 duplicate within 100 meters, say, creates a pretty similar effect).  So it seems reasonable to consider this a low cost flavour power.

[Tom Cowan]

fixed point does not need to be 'fixed.' it could be a cabin on a ship or  100 feet to the north of where you are.

[unclevlad]

Yeah, Fixed Point can be "a specific person."  I had to recheck that myself.  

 

Teleport Only to Fixed Locations is a listed -1.  Found that on further review.  If the intent was:

 

a)  NEVER have more than 1 duplicate (unless it got killed)  

then 

b)  this is the *only* allowed fixed location

 

that feels like it's worth more.  In fact, as I've described it, there's a Linked to Duplication for another -1/2.  And that would work even if there were multiple duplicates.

 

Yes, this is 10" @ 1 km megascale, with no other advantages (or probably limitations) planned.  

[dsatow]

I'd just count it as a floating location (though its not floating) and make the teleport only to fixed locations.

 

I had a character which was a bit of a scaredy cat and set their triggered floating teleport point right behind the brick when ever she saw herself being attacked.  This blew up in her face when she was on the edge of the explosion and the brick was in the center.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

I'm not sold that "only to one fixed location that can never change" is appropriately only -2

 

The limitation value for "only one fixed location" is set not based simply on the value of the location but also on its relative power to not having that limitation.  One fixed location vs "literally anywhere within range" is a pretty big limitation on the power.  However, I wouldn't give -2, as a base.  I'd start at -1 and then reduce that by the usefulness of that fixed location.

[PhilFleischmann]

In this case, the "fixed" location is one that the other twin can already get to normally.  So it's really not especially useful.  If Castor can get to point X by "normal" means, then why can't Pollux get there the same way, and at the same time?  If they want to teleport into the bad guy's secret lair, one of them has to first get in the hard way.  And if one can get in the hard way, then presumably the other one could have gotten in the hard way, too.  Sure, it can save some time and END, and maybe avoid some danger for one of the duplicates, but it can't get you to any new place.

 

And it's essentially the same as recombining the duplicates at a distance, and then re-separating in the same place.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, PhilFleischmann said:

In this case, the "fixed" location is one that the other twin can already get to normally.  So it's really not especially useful.  If Castor can get to point X by "normal" means, then why can't Pollux get there the same way, and at the same time?  If they want to teleport into the bad guy's secret lair, one of them has to first get in the hard way.  And if one can get in the hard way, then presumably the other one could have gotten in the hard way, too.  Sure, it can save some time and END, and maybe avoid some danger for one of the duplicates, but it can't get you to any new place.

 

And it's essentially the same as recombining the duplicates at a distance, and then re-separating in the same place.

 

It's much cheaper than recombining at a distance.  Plus, it's not clear to me, but I think the recombine can only happen at the original's location, so it's only duplicate "teleporting" to original.  This power allows the original to go to the duplicate's location.  
 

There would be times when one can get in, but not both.  (Present ID at the door, have it checked off.)  But yes, it's not allowing access to any new area.

[JmOz]

On 7/2/2018 at 11:59 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

The limitation value for "only one fixed location" is set not based simply on the value of the location but also on its relative power to not having that limitation.  One fixed location vs "literally anywhere within range" is a pretty big limitation on the power.  However, I wouldn't give -2, as a base.  I'd start at -1 and then reduce that by the usefulness of that fixed location.

 

I think this is the root of my issue with a -2 on this version.  It boils down to because  you control the movement of the fixed point you are able to manipulate it to your advantage...I would say a -1 is right

[Hugh Neilson]

On 7/1/2018 at 1:27 PM, Hugh Neilson said:

I'm not sold that "only to one fixed location that can never change" is appropriately only -2.  How many people would buy such a power to a location that will not be consistently useful (like "Only back to my home base where I am safe and can heal up", not "only to the center of the city out in the open where an ambush can easily be prepared").

 

It's funny how we will reduce the value of a limitation "because it's not all that limiting", but we would never dream of allowing more than a -2 limitation where the limitation is worse than what a -2 could generally be obtained for.  I'd anticipate (as I think JMOz does) a Megascale teleport, which would not be overly expensive to begin with.

 

On 7/2/2018 at 10:59 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

The limitation value for "only one fixed location" is set not based simply on the value of the location but also on its relative power to not having that limitation.  One fixed location vs "literally anywhere within range" is a pretty big limitation on the power.  However, I wouldn't give -2, as a base.  I'd start at -1 and then reduce that by the usefulness of that fixed location.

 

My point was that -2 may not be enough, not that it may be too high.  Is it really worth only half as much to be able to teleport to SHIELD HQ from anywhere on earth as it would be to be able to teleport between any two locations on earth?

 

8 hours ago, PhilFleischmann said:

In this case, the "fixed" location is one that the other twin can already get to normally.  So it's really not especially useful.  If Castor can get to point X by "normal" means, then why can't Pollux get there the same way, and at the same time? 

 

It does mean Castor cannot be held prisoner at a secret lair, already secured, without Pollux being able to find and try to rescue him.  

[unclevlad]

I decided to go with -1, because 6E allows a load of cheese with this anyway.  You only need to by 1"...older rules required more.  The cost was dropped to nothing.  MegaScale is now max range...you can teleport anywhere up to that limit at no more cost.  Even with how I built it...10m, at 1m == 1 km...that's only 20 points.  (Or I could go for 6m, and 1m == 100 km...for 5 points less.)  Given that there's already some rules 'abuse' going on...trying to wring every drop out is not something I like to do.  I think there's good arguments for considering it a larger LImitation, but that also, in this interpretation, it's not appropriate.  YMMV on that aspect, of course.

[clnicholsusa]

Personally, I wouldn't allow any limitation on the teleport. It's a useful ability with plenty of drawbacks already put into it. The primary drawback is that any megascale teleport that isn't made to the other twin will almost certainly be blind. This requires targeting the location and the teleporter will be at 0 OCV (non-combat movement). Furthermore, the teleportation will take a full phase and the teleporter will be at 1/2 DCV (like a sitting duck).

Besides, it's only a nine point power so why stick on more limitations.

Teleport, 2m (2 point), 1 fixed location for 1 point, Megascale: +2 10,000 km (Earth's diameter is around 13,000 km, so 1m won't do it). 9 points to get to your twin from anywhere in the world.