Teleporting a Fixed Location to You?

[PhilFleischmann]

28 minutes ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

I strongly disagree, but I've already stated my views. 

 

I feel, if you absolutely must invoke the teleport-construct (I maintain this to be a mistake), it should be based off Teleport, UAA, Trigger. 

I'm not sure what Trigger has to do with it.  If I want to teleport something to me right now, I'm just going to do that.  I don't want to set up a Trigger that goes off later.  It's just the "Accio" spell from Harry Potter (except that Accio would probably be built on Flight, UAA, rather than Teleport, UAA).

 

So if you don't think a Fixed object to teleport to you is worth the same as a Fixed Location to teleport yourself to, then how much do you think it should be worth?

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

1 minute ago, PhilFleischmann said:

I'm not sure what Trigger has to do with it.  If I want to teleport something to me right now, I'm just going to do that.  I don't want to set up a Trigger that goes off later.  It's just the "Accio" spell from Harry Potter (except that Accio would probably be built on Flight, UAA, rather than Teleport, UAA).

 

So if you don't think a Fixed object to teleport to you is worth the same as a Fixed Location to teleport yourself to, then how much do you think it should be worth?

The question of how much a "Fixed object to teleport to you is worth" is meaningless because I don't think such a thing should be built such a way.  I've already stated how I think it should be built, and how much I think it should cost. 

 

If you're forcing me to price the teleport-construct, I think it should be worth +1/4 because I think that it shouldn't be built via Teleport but if it must then it should be built with Trigger.  The exact modifiers I'd use are Trigger, ZPA to Reset, HPA to Activate. 

You, at one point, had the McGuffin.  At that time, you established the Trigger.  At some later point, you want the McGuffin back.  So you spend a moment to activate the Trigger, teleporting it back right now.  You then automatically reset the Trigger so you can call it back again. 

 

The spell you mention isn't a (note the singular) power.  It's a VPP with the SFX of "Objects I magically make fly to me" built such that reassigning the points is Linked to TK, Gestures and Incantations (and that's all the modifiers I'd put on the TK).  If the object you want isn't in the scene, you twiddle the points and pay for the TK.  If the object you want is in the scene in your possession, you just twiddle the points.  If the object you want is in the scene but not in your possession, you use the TK to bring it to you and if successful twiddle the points.  If the object isn't in the scene and can't be feasibly retrieved by your TK (He Who Isn't Named Yet, The GM Didn't Expect Anyone To Ask buried your broom under a ton of concrete), you pay for the TK and don't twiddle the points. 

[PhilFleischmann]

1 hour ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

If you're forcing me to price the teleport-construct, I think it should be worth +1/4 because I think that it shouldn't be built via Teleport but if it must then it should be built with Trigger.  The exact modifiers I'd use are Trigger, ZPA to Reset, HPA to Activate. 

You, at one point, had the McGuffin.  At that time, you established the Trigger.  At some later point, you want the McGuffin back.  So you spend a moment to activate the Trigger, teleporting it back right now.  You then automatically reset the Trigger so you can call it back again.

Yes, that works.  So how much for the Limitation "Only for this one McGuffin"?  In other words, I can't place the Triggered Teleport on anything else,just this one object that is precioussss to me.  And I also can't use the Teleport, Triggered or otherwise, on anything else, either.

 

And then what if you want to do this on two different specific McGuffins?  Three?  Four?  Seven?  Buying them similarly to how you buy Fixed Locations seems to work, but it's not necessarily the only way to do it, nor even necessarily the best way.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

2 minutes ago, PhilFleischmann said:

Yes, that works.  So how much for the Limitation "Only for this one McGuffin"?  In other words, I can't place the Triggered Teleport on anything else,just this one object that is precioussss to me.  And I also can't use the Teleport, Triggered or otherwise, on anything else, either.

I wouldn't accept that as a Limitation greater than -0 without playtesting.  The power doesn't let you have multiple pending Triggers, so my belief is that it's not very limiting unless you do something to lift that restriction (and then I get suspicious of chicanery).  That said, I'd probably allow somewhere between -1/2 and -1 for Inanimate Objects Only.  Would depend on how important objects were to the character and in the game. 

 

2 minutes ago, PhilFleischmann said:

And then what if you want to do this on two different specific McGuffins?  Three?  Four?  Seven?  Buying them similarly to how you buy Fixed Locations seems to work, but it's not necessarily the only way to do it, nor even necessarily the best way.

Buy multiple instances of the power in a Multipower.  When you want to recall a McGuffin, swap to the appropriate slot and invoke the Trigger.  Technically works even if you're not in the right slot, but then you can't reset until you switch slots. 

Alternatively, switch to a Charge based model which explicitly permits multiple simultaneous pending triggers at the cost of limited uses per period. 

[PhilFleischmann]

Maybe I've misunderstood you.  As I understand it, it's not the object that is the trigger, it's the power.  If I buy Teleport UAA, I can use it on anything I want - objects, McGuffins, enemies, allies, civilians, etc.  But you're saying that if I buy it with a Trigger, that I can only use it on one specific item?  And that if I want to use it on other targets, I have to buy each one as a Multipower slot?  I'm not talking about summoning everything to me at once.  I'm reminded of the Steven Wright joke:  "You can't have everything,  Where would you put it?"  I'm talking about a limitation for the Teleport, UAA, Trigger, that can only ever be put on this one McGuffin, and can never be put on anything else.  (That's why it's analogous to a Fixed Location.  It's only to the front seat of *my* car, not the front seat of *any* car.)

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

1 minute ago, PhilFleischmann said:

Maybe I've misunderstood you.  As I understand it, it's not the object that is the trigger, it's the power.  If I buy Teleport UAA, I can use it on anything I want - objects, McGuffins, enemies, allies, civilians, etc.  But you're saying that if I buy it with a Trigger, that I can only use it on one specific item?  And that if I want to use it on other targets, I have to buy each one as a Multipower slot?  I'm not talking about summoning everything to me at once.  I'm reminded of the Steven Wright joke:  "You can't have everything,  Where would you put it?"  I'm talking about a limitation for the Teleport, UAA, Trigger, that can only ever be put on this one McGuffin, and can never be put on anything else.  (That's why it's analogous to a Fixed Location.  It's only to the front seat of *my* car, not the front seat of *any* car.)

You can only have one Trigger set at a time.  "Typically, a character may only set a Trigger once" (FRED p270, 6E1 p351). 

I'm assuming that this character is going to leave that Trigger set on the McGuffin most of the time.  Which in turn means that they can't also have a Trigger set to recall their favorite sweater.  They'd need one of the two Limitations that explicitly override that clause or multiple instances of the power (say, in a Multipower to cut costs). 

So since this character is likely to generally have a Trigger: Recall McGuffin set, they therefore generally can't have any other object ready to recall.  Meaning not being able to target another object isn't much of a Limitation.  This is, I freely admit, the sort of thing I'd want to try out in play.  Maybe the player is really good at finding fun ways to use this power and would suffer under such a Limitation, so it should have value.  But I'd have them start out without the Limitation so we could see how things go. 

[dsatow]

To answer the original poster questions RaW and to offer a solution RaW to the scenario he was thinking about.

 

On 2/8/2020 at 11:28 AM, SteveZilla said:

This is for a Fantasy Hero game.  Questions:

1) Can you designate a Fixed Location as a small object?  Not buying it as a Focus, because of Fantasy Hero game with money.  It's an object in it's own right.

Yes, but only to target a teleport to.  You can teleport to the small object (6e1p299).  It does not work the other way around.

 

On 2/8/2020 at 11:28 AM, SteveZilla said:

2) If so,  can a  UAA Teleportation power that is within range and not blocked by the UAA cutoffs or Teleport impediments, teleport that object *to me* without seeing it?

Not using fixed location.

 

On 2/8/2020 at 11:28 AM, SteveZilla said:

I'm thinking of some sort of a "Quickdraw" ability (magical/supernatural), or an "Item retrieval" ability that can function across a short distance (10m or less - that I would buy the Teleport distance to)...

Stretching wouldn't be able to retrieve the object from inside a chest, I presume?

 

As has been already suggested, the best method would be just calling a focus as only in hero id and the "summoning" just a special effect, however, in Fantasy Hero, that might not be applicable.  Since items in FH aren't always focii or at least not your focii, what can you do?

 

Well, you can make a four part power.

• Part one: Arcane Mark.  Just a 1d6 cosmetic transform to mark an object. 3pts before limitations
• Part two: Detect Arcane Mark.  At worst, 33 pts for a detect single thing (the mark), range, targeting, discriminatory.  You can get around a lot of the point cost by linking it to an existing sense group like sight and then its just a 13 pt penetrative detect.  Better still is to make it detectable by detect magic in a FH game which you were going to buy anyways.
• Part three: Fixed location.  In your hand. 1pt.
• Part four: Summon marked object.  Teleportation 10m, Limited Range (+1/4), Indirect (Source Point can vary from use to use, path is from Source Point to target; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1 1/4) (30 Active Points); Can Only Teleport To  Fixed Locations (-1)

Costs can be cheaper with more limitations but probably around 29-52 pts.  End cost would be at least 1 to mark the target and 3 to summon it.  Note this is completely rules legal (though requires GM buy off on the  UAA) and does not alter 6th (or 5th I think) RaW.  The detect and the fixed location can not be in a framework but the marking and the summoning can.

 

 

[Shoug]

This all happens to be very related to a spell I've been wracking my brain on how to build for a few days now. I've been trying to build a Circle of Teleportation spell with an accompanying medallion. There is a magical circle that the wizard knows that he can use to teleport up to four people at a time safely to any other Circle of Teleportation within 100km. He and everybody he's teleporting needs to be physically inside the circle, maybe 2 meters in diameter (I'm probably not going to buy that AOE, they just need to be with the wizard and the circle). The wizard wears a medallion at all times with a Circle of Teleportation engraved on it. He can use this as a "site", he can teleport from it and to it (if he leaves it somewhere), but he can only take himself when he's using it as the "entrance" Circle. It takes a long time to draw a Circle, but to use it is instantaneous thereafter. So the medallion not only lets him teleport in a pinch, but it also let's him basically instantaneously "study" a new Floating Fixed Location by taking off the medallion and leaving/throwing it somewhere. The only caveat is that after taking off the medallion, he no longer has access to any Circle, so if he wants to use that new FFL, he's gotta draw a new Circle or find an old one.

I want to see how other people would approach building this before i share what I come up, just to avoid biasing anybody.

[dsatow]

Just a minor comment

 

In the rules, there are Floating Locations and Fixed Locations.  Saying Floating Fixed Locations, I am assuming you mean Floating Locations.

 

BTW: Can you clarify a little bit more?  I am having a little problem determining whether you are talking about the inscribed circle or the amulet at times.

 

 

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

1 hour ago, Shoug said:

This all happens to be very related to a spell I've been wracking my brain on how to build for a few days now. I've been trying to build a Circle of Teleportation spell with an accompanying medallion. There is a magical circle that the wizard knows that he can use to teleport up to four people at a time safely to any other Circle of Teleportation within 100km. He and everybody he's teleporting needs to be physically inside the circle, maybe 2 meters in diameter (I'm probably not going to buy that AOE, they just need to be with the wizard and the circle). The wizard wears a medallion at all times with a Circle of Teleportation engraved on it. He can use this as a "site", he can teleport from it and to it (if he leaves it somewhere), but he can only take himself when he's using it as the "entrance" Circle. It takes a long time to draw a Circle, but to use it is instantaneous thereafter. So the medallion not only lets him teleport in a pinch, but it also let's him basically instantaneously "study" a new Floating Fixed Location by taking off the medallion and leaving/throwing it somewhere. The only caveat is that after taking off the medallion, he no longer has access to any Circle, so if he wants to use that new FFL, he's gotta draw a new Circle or find an old one.

I want to see how other people would approach building this before i share what I come up, just to avoid biasing anybody.

Teleportation, Increased Mass, Megascale, Only From Appropriate Magic Circle to Another Such Circle.  The Limitation's value would be partly dependent on how common such circles are (and decrease if the wizard starts carrying more medallions).  No Locations involved. 

I'd leave it to GM's discretion to determine if trying to teleport somewhere a circle isn't results in no teleport or shunts you to the nearest one (or for a bigger Limitation, is an unsafe teleport).  As written, needs a bunch of Grabs to take friends along (fine for noncombat, awful for combat) which can be solved via AoE 2m. 

[MrAgdesh]

Interested in this because I asked a similar question here;

 

 

Simply removing the Focus aspect works for say the main MacGuffin, but when you have someone who can teleport a vast variety of things to their hands then its different (E.g. A Porte sorcerer in 7th Sea can do this by blood marking (Floating Locations?) individual items).

[Doc Democracy]

I liked the use of summon and Transform.  If you can live with the need to "mark" an item before you can summon it to you, then you do indeed provide a way to manage the process.  The wizard would need access to be able to mark it for summoning, which puts a lot of items out of reach and you could limit the summon to only a fixed number of things so that the wizard does not just eventually mark everything.  🙂

[Chris Goodwin]

"Floating fixed locations" is the terminology used in 6th edition.  "Floating" because you can change it, and "fixed location" as a spot that you can teleport to.  

[dsatow]

5 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

"Floating fixed locations" is the terminology used in 6th edition.  "Floating" because you can change it, and "fixed location" as a spot that you can teleport to.  

 

I stand corrected.  

[PhilFleischmann]

On 2/11/2020 at 10:20 PM, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

You can only have one Trigger set at a time.  "Typically, a character may only set a Trigger once" (FRED p270, 6E1 p351). 

I'm assuming that this character is going to leave that Trigger set on the McGuffin most of the time.  Which in turn means that they can't also have a Trigger set to recall their favorite sweater.  They'd need one of the two Limitations that explicitly override that clause or multiple instances of the power (say, in a Multipower to cut costs). 

So since this character is likely to generally have a Trigger: Recall McGuffin set, they therefore generally can't have any other object ready to recall.  Meaning not being able to target another object isn't much of a Limitation.  This is, I freely admit, the sort of thing I'd want to try out in play.  Maybe the player is really good at finding fun ways to use this power and would suffer under such a Limitation, so it should have value.  But I'd have them start out without the Limitation so we could see how things go. 

Thank you for clarifying.  You may be right.  I still think that only being able to place the trigger on one item is worth a limitation, even if it's only -1/4.  The multipower construct you described above also works.  The only question is whether the cost is appropriate.  It seemed at first that buying these "fixed targets" with UAA Teleport similarly to how you buy Fixed Locations was an appropriate cost.  But I certainly could be mistaken about that.  I suppose it is comparable to buying off the Focus Limitation for a power, but UAA is already pretty expensive, and Teleport has a maximum range, whereas "not having a focus: does not have a range.

 

If I have a power through an item with no Focus limitation, someone can steal the item and take it to another galaxy, and I still get it back when I want it.  With the Teleport UAA method (regardless of whether you use Trigger or "Fixed Targets"), it the item is out of range, you don't get it back.  Then the question is, how often is the McGuffin going to be farther away than the Teleport Range?