Teleporting a Fixed Location to You?

[SteveZilla]

This is for a Fantasy Hero game.  Questions:

1) Can you designate a Fixed Location as a small object?  Not buying it as a Focus, because of Fantasy Hero game with money.  It's an object in it's own right.

2) If so,  can a  UAA Teleportation power that is within range and not blocked by the UAA cutoffs or Teleport impediments, teleport that object *to me* without seeing it?

I'm thinking of some sort of a "Quickdraw" ability (magical/supernatural), or an "Item retrieval" ability that can function across a short distance (10m or less - that I would buy the Teleport distance to)...

Stretching wouldn't be able to retrieve the object from inside a chest, I presume?

[PhilFleischmann]

That sounds good to me.  The object is a Fixed "Location" and the power is bought UAA, so yes.  Of course, it only works for the fixed "locations" that you specify for buying, or you can pay more for a Floating Fixed "Location".  You would certainly be able to teleport *to* these objects as Fixed Locations, without UAA, so I see no reason why, for the price of UAA, you can't teleport them to yourself.

 

"Accio!"

[IndianaJoe3]

I remember a similar topic coming up in the Fantasy Hero forum, but I can't find the thread. The character in question could teleport to his sword, or teleport the sword to him. I modeled teleporting to the sword asTeleport, to a fixed location, with a Limitation based on the fact that the character couldn't control the location, or the location would be where the character already was.  "Teleporting the sword to the character" was handled by not simply buying the sword as a Focus.

 

If the object in question isn't built as a power in its own right (like a pouch, or some other mundane object), it gets much more complicated.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

22 hours ago, SteveZilla said:

This is for a Fantasy Hero game.  Questions:

1) Can you designate a Fixed Location as a small object?  Not buying it as a Focus, because of Fantasy Hero game with money.  It's an object in it's own right.

2) If so,  can a  UAA Teleportation power that is within range and not blocked by the UAA cutoffs or Teleport impediments, teleport that object *to me* without seeing it?

I'm thinking of some sort of a "Quickdraw" ability (magical/supernatural), or an "Item retrieval" ability that can function across a short distance (10m or less - that I would buy the Teleport distance to)...

Stretching wouldn't be able to retrieve the object from inside a chest, I presume?

Well, what you're doing is buying off (part of) the Focus limitation with the SFX of "I can teleport it to myself whenever".  Either from XAF to XIF, or maybe just all the way gone. 

So if the thing you're teleporting is easy to build with points (IE, not a smartphone), build it with points and the appropriate Focus Limitation.  Then rebuild it with the new (lack of) Focus Limitation.  The difference in cost is the cost of this power. 

[PhilFleischmann]

3 hours ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

I remember a similar topic coming up in the Fantasy Hero forum, but I can't find the thread. The character in question could teleport to his sword, or teleport the sword to him. I modeled teleporting to the sword asTeleport, to a fixed location, with a Limitation based on the fact that the character couldn't control the location, or the location would be where the character already was. 

 

I don't think you get a limitation for that.  That's just how the Fixed Location works.  However, you would get a limitation for "Only to Teleport to this One Particular Fixed Location", which is probably at least a -2.  And the fact that the sword isn't fixed in one location, has as many advantages as limitations.  You're standing at the edge of a very high cliff, with no way down.  So you throw the sword down, and teleport to it.

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

7 hours ago, PhilFleischmann said:

I don't think you get a limitation for that.  That's just how the Fixed Location works.  However, you would get a limitation for "Only to Teleport to this One Particular Fixed Location", which is probably at least a -2.  And the fact that the sword isn't fixed in one location, has as many advantages as limitations.  You're standing at the edge of a very high cliff, with no way down.  So you throw the sword down, and teleport to it.

I wouldn't give much of a Limitation for "Only to teleport to this thing I can trivially move".  Take, for example, your own example! 

[Duke Bushido]

Honestly, I think there are two different things going on here:

 

You want to be able to summon the object.  That's easily done, as a couple of people have suggested, by simply _not_ buying it as a Focus: you have it whenever you need / want it.  

 

Just as an example: I can buy a gun as a focus, but if I don't by Charges or put a limitation on the number of shots the gun has, I will always have "just enough" bullets, or always have another clip or two stashed in my jacket-- or even get luck enough to just find the right bullets just laying around.  And of course, no one will ever be able to reload faster than me.

 

Taken a bit further: I don't buy the gun as a focus.  Now I have the gun itself whenever I want it, and I can hide it on my person so well that no one will ever be able to detect it or take it away from me.

 

 

Teleporting your object to you from any distance is entirely possible by simply not building your object as a focus.  You can dismiss or retrieve it any time you want.  If you want to simulate having to summon it, consider putting an "Extra Time" limitation on it to simulate spending a half-phase (or ever-how-long) casting the teleport spell.

 

As for teleporting to wherever you happen to have left the item, well that's a _floating_ location, as you can change it more or less at will.  Season to taste with limitations to represent having to physically move the "location," and that you can't teleport anywhere when you are actually holding the location.

[PhilFleischmann]

4 hours ago, Gnome BODY (important!) said:

I wouldn't give much of a Limitation for "Only to teleport to this thing I can trivially move".  Take, for example, your own example! 

Yeah, good point.  I think it's still worth some limitation though.  If you can't just throw the sword all the way to the doorway of Mount Doom and teleport there.

 

Simply not buying the object as a focus is certainly a way to always teleport the item to you - but only if that item is a purchasable power.  I suppose you could always buy a one-point power through the item, and not buy it as a focus to always have it available, though.

 

3 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

As for teleporting to wherever you happen to have left the item, well that's a _floating_ location, as you can change it more or less at will.  Season to taste with limitations to represent having to physically move the "location," and that you can't teleport anywhere when you are actually holding the location.

Actually, it's still a Fixed Location, partially because you are not the only one who can move it.  If someone steals it and takes it to their lair, you may be teleporting yourself into a trap.  An item or a living person, or other movable object or location is still a Fixed Location.  If you can change it to some other object, then it's a Floating Location.

[Doc Democracy]

On 2/8/2020 at 7:28 PM, SteveZilla said:

Can you designate a Fixed Location as a small object?  Not buying it as a Focus, because of Fantasy Hero game with money.  It's an object in it's own right.

 

This has been an interesting thread as much because it demonstrated that I am still prone to not stripping things back to basics.

 

Can I ask if I have the in game concept right?  You want an item, that is normally stored securely to be instantly available to you whenever you want?

 

You don't say if it is a weapon, but if it was, would someone, after you had summoned the item, be able to prevent you using it?  Could someone interfere with your ability to use the item?

 

These are the questions I would put to one of my players. 

 

In essence, I would buy the power I want use.  It might be described as an item but it is not something that will ever be stolen from me or that I could be prevented from accessing or using.  Everything is simply SFX of using the power I bought.

 

If I could be prevented from using it, then restrainable is an option.  If I could be prevented from drawing it to me at need then some minor limited power limitation or restrainable depending on how easy/prevalent it is to do so.

 

I think you achieve everything without buying a secondary power....

 

Doc

[Chris Goodwin]

A "location" for purposes of Teleport, can be a moving location, such as a particular seat in a 747 or even a living creature (6e1 p. 300).  Does that mean it can be an object?  

 

If I had a fixed location bought as the passenger seat of a particular car, I can teleport to that seat, if it's within my Teleport distance.  If I had Teleport against others at range, and enough mass to teleport the entire car, and the car were within my range, could I teleport the car to myself?  If not, then why not?

 

If we're considering a 1-point fixed location, is the ability to teleport to a moving location better than the ability to teleport to a non-moving location?  Should it not then cost more?  If my location is the passenger seat of a car, then my "fixed" location isn't exactly a single spot.  I can suddenly teleport to anywhere that car can be.  

 

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

1 hour ago, Chris Goodwin said:

A "location" for purposes of Teleport, can be a moving location, such as a particular seat in a 747 or even a living creature (6e1 p. 300).  Does that mean it can be an object?  

 

If I had a fixed location bought as the passenger seat of a particular car, I can teleport to that seat, if it's within my Teleport distance.  If I had Teleport against others at range, and enough mass to teleport the entire car, and the car were within my range, could I teleport the car to myself?  If not, then why not?

 

If we're considering a 1-point fixed location, is the ability to teleport to a moving location better than the ability to teleport to a non-moving location?  Should it not then cost more?  If my location is the passenger seat of a car, then my "fixed" location isn't exactly a single spot.  I can suddenly teleport to anywhere that car can be. 

I'd say it depends on the degree of control over the location. 

"Teleport to my flying speedster buddy" is fairly close to "Teleport anywhere" unless the speedster goes down.  I wouldn't give that much Limitation. 

"Teleport to the location on the Earth's surface directly between the Earth and the Sun" is pretty limited since you can't do a thing about where it is other than wait.  I'd give that a pretty heavy Limitation. 

For this case of the sword, I'm reminded of Unreal Tournament's Translocators.  It's a teleporter, but it can only teleport you to a plate-sized beacon.  So it shoots that beacon.  The end result is a pretty dang effective teleportation device. 

[PhilFleischmann]

3 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

Should it not then cost more?  If my location is the passenger seat of a car, then my "fixed" location isn't exactly a single spot.  I can suddenly teleport to anywhere that car can be.  

Not really.  You can only teleport to where that car *is*.  And you don't have complete control over where it is.

 

If you cut a red X out of construction paper, you can buy that red X as your fixed location.  If you can move that red X anywhere you want within your teleport range at will, then it's just a "special effect" of your teleport, and possibly a justification for Extra Time - however long it takes to get the red X to the desired location.

[Chris Goodwin]

8 minutes ago, PhilFleischmann said:

Not really.  You can only teleport to where that car *is*.  And you don't have complete control over where it is.

 

 

That's what I meant.  If it's my car, I have a reasonable amount of control over where the car is -- and if I can teleport it, even more so.  

 

But my point is, if I can set "the passenger seat of my car" as a teleport location, can I teleport that car to me?  

 

And per the original post, could I define my sword as a fixed location, and teleport it to me?  

[dsatow]

I would allow it but as Duke Bushido noted, it simpler to just not call a summoned powered effect a focus.

 

In any case, I would allow an object to be a t-port designation as well as yourself.  For an object like a sword, there is a danger that t-porting to the object might be dangerous as you are teleporting blind.  So if the sword was say in a safe, a safe t-port would put you outside the safe.   A t-port with out the safe advantage might put you in the safe either with the NND killing attack for teleporting into a soldi object and/or with the safe being an effective entangle and limited air supply.  Teleporting the sword to you, would be fine, but I'd also allow a t-porter who has a hold of the object to resist the t-port or go along with it to the destination.

 

However, this is just me as a GM.  Your mileage will probably greatly vary.

[Duke Bushido]

Thanks, D, and thank you, Chris, for putting into better words what I was trying to say earlier: there are two different things going on here:  teleporting a weapon to you. 

Teleporting you to a weapon's location. 

 

The first one can be done three ways: easiest is to remove the focus limitation, and when you are not using the power, the SFX of not using the power can be "I don't have the sword on me.". When you are using it, the SFX are "my sword has been telrported to me and now I am going to thwack it about a bit. 

 

Second is to use" summon sword" and build an appropriate summon. 

 

Third is to use teleport this object from X location. 

 

Fourth is a power pool, in which you have enough points to build  "smite with sword" or "teleport," but not both zim-

 

Okay, let's just ignore frameworks.  Forget that last bit about the pool. 

 

 

Any one of those suggested builds is fine. I am sure someone else can find ten more. 

 

The other thing is "teleport _you_." 

 

"deal damage" and "teleport" are two different things.  There is no reason that Stevezilla should not be allowed to build what he wants to build, but I think we are forgetting that with or without the Focus limitation, the sword is nothing but special effects for "Smite!" 

 

Looking at the teleport:

 

The sword is nothing but special effects for "where I can land.". I can land anywhere, so long as the sword is already there. 

 

We don't need a really complicated two-effects power to achieve that.  We need a couple of advantages and limitations.  First off, we need to build the T-port and the whatever-power-the-sword-is-based-on, which I am going to go way, way out on a brittle pine limb and assume is "Hand-to-Hand Killing Attack." 

 

You want to teleport it to and away from you; that's fine.  Pick one of the above methods of doing that. 

 

Then buy your teleport.  Use fixed or floating location; I really don't care: Phil and others are absolutely correct that a fixed location can be a thing that moves.  I recommended Floating not because a fixed location can't move, but because a floating location is something you can move at your whim: it ends up where you decide to move it ("I hide my sword behind the aged tapestry in the servant's corridor off of the throne room").   

 

What's the advantage there?  Well, with no limitations on your location, no one will _ever_ find your sword there: it doesn't actually exist: its just a special effect. 

 

Sure: we can pile on stuff left and right; we might even be able to stack so many Limitations on these builds that you gain five points just for owning the damned thing, but from everything I've seen, the only one you really need to make this work is "Lock out (I think I have that right)" on the two powers such that when you are using the sword, you can't teleport to your location. 

 

Boom.  It's all tied together.  I suppose you could argue that you can't use the sword when you're teleporting, but you'd be lucky to see me grant that a - 1/16. 

 

As for the rest?  Focus and whatever else?  Season to taste.  Want the sword to be discoverable when it's serving as a T-port anchor?  Want it to be something other people can find and move?  Slap on Focus on the location.  Slap on "real weapon" if you want (I don't allow that one, but I don't deny the viability of it).  Slap on whatever you want-- on the _location_.  Make it a real thing.  I don't think you need to, personally; I think SFX covers it nicely, but I'm not you or your GM, and I won't pretend that my ideas are best for your game.  I will say that I rather like a - 0 custom limitation (must be physically moved to change location" on a Floating location.  I say - 0 because we know you can teleport it to you, and the ability to just drop it somewhere without having to spend a minute memorizing the new location.....  Well, I see that as sort of a wash, really. 

 

I know that each edition sets forth the examples of more and more complicated builds to do relatively simple things, and that puts something in the back of our minds that "simple must not be enough". (and thank you, Doc D, for at least being honest about it), but there comes a point where oveethinking makes it nigh-impossible to do a simple thing. 

 

 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure we would all be glad to know what you end up using. 

 

 

Duke

[SteveZilla]

20 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

This has been an interesting thread as much because it demonstrated that I am still prone to not stripping things back to basics.

 

Can I ask if I have the in game concept right?  You want an item, that is normally stored securely to be instantly available to you whenever you want?

 

You don't say if it is a weapon, but if it was, would someone, after you had summoned the item, be able to prevent you using it?  Could someone interfere with your ability to use the item?

 

These are the questions I would put to one of my players. 

 

In essence, I would buy the power I want use.  It might be described as an item but it is not something that will ever be stolen from me or that I could be prevented from accessing or using.  Everything is simply SFX of using the power I bought.

 

If I could be prevented from using it, then restrainable is an option.  If I could be prevented from drawing it to me at need then some minor limited power limitation or restrainable depending on how easy/prevalent it is to do so.

 

I think you achieve everything without buying a secondary power....

 

Doc

It doesn't have to be "stored securely", as it is a small item the character has with her - small, but very important.  Should it be removed from her (pick pocket, combat grab, whatever), she becomes virtually powerless.

For the purposes of her other powers it is *treated* as a OAF, but it itself has no powers in it.  I was thinking of a triggered power (a spell) to retrieve a wand stolen from me, so I wouldn't be rendered helpless for the rest of the combat - or until returning to town/base.  The 'focus' can still be grabbed and broken, and just grabbing it would still prevent her from casting until she retrieved it - so still an OAF in my mind.

[Doc Democracy]

9 hours ago, SteveZilla said:

It doesn't have to be "stored securely", as it is a small item the character has with her - small, but very important.  Should it be removed from her (pick pocket, combat grab, whatever), she becomes virtually powerless.

For the purposes of her other powers it is *treated* as a OAF, but it itself has no powers in it.  I was thinking of a triggered power (a spell) to retrieve a wand stolen from me, so I wouldn't be rendered helpless for the rest of the combat - or until returning to town/base.  The 'focus' can still be grabbed and broken, and just grabbing it would still prevent her from casting until she retrieved it - so still an OAF in my mind.

 

I think this is the very definition of a restrainable power.  You indicate that the wand appears in your hand when you shout the retrieval word.  So, someone might remove the wand from you (restraining your use that phase) but would have to find a way of preventing you shouting the retrieval word to restrain your use for a longer period.  At any time you become able to retrieve the wand, you have access to your powers again.  I dont think you need to give yourself a summoning power that, by the sounds of it, is extraneous to your other powers, and stretch the rules of that power to make it work how you want.  Instead all you need to do is decide on how the power might be restrained and come to an agreement with your GM what that is worth.

 

Doc

[Duke Bushido]

Well I can't add any more rep today, but with that bit of extra info, Doc is (unsurprisingly.   ) dead on:  that is the sort of thing restrainable was made for.  Well, that, and wings. 

[PhilFleischmann]

19 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

That's what I meant.  If it's my car, I have a reasonable amount of control over where the car is -- and if I can teleport it, even more so.

If you're driving the car, then the ability to teleport to it is useless, and so is the ability to teleport it to you.  Those abilities are only useful when you aren't near the car, or when someone else has moved the car.

 

19 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

But my point is, if I can set "the passenger seat of my car" as a teleport location, can I teleport that car to me?  

 

And per the original post, could I define my sword as a fixed location, and teleport it to me?  

No.  To teleport an object to you, you need UAA or something like that, as in the original post.  The idea of teleporting objects to you with the object being a fixed location is a new construct, not in the rules.  It seems fair and appropriate for the inverse of the normal Teleport power - teleporting yourself (from any location) to some fixed location, the opposite being teleporting some specified object to you.

 

Teleport UAA would allow you to teleport an object you see to some other location you can see.  A Fixed Location adder would normally allow you to teleport an object you can see to that fixed location, as long as it's within your range.  The idea of an object as a Fixed "Location" for a UAA Teleport so that you can teleport *it* to you, instead of you (or something else) to it, is a new construct.  Perhaps a new word is needed.  We can use "Fixed Location" for the teleport destination.  Perhaps we can call these "summonable objects" "Fixed Targets" or "Fixed Subjects", or something like that.  These things should be bought separately, IMO.  And I wouldn't charge anything for "to you" as a fixed location.  So if you want to Teleport yourself to the driver's seat of your car, even when your car is not in LOS, that's a regular Fixed Location.  If you want to teleport your car to you, that's a Fixed Subject, and needs to be purchased separately - but it's only 1 point, in addition to having to have UAA on the Teleport.

 

If you bought a Fixed Subject and a Fixed Location, with a UAA Teleport, you could teleport the object to the location even if neither of them were in LoS.

 

 

[BoloOfEarth]

20 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

But my point is, if I can set "the passenger seat of my car" as a teleport location, can I teleport that car to me?  

 

It seems to me that you could teleport the passenger seat to you, not the whole car.  Just sayin'.  (That's assuming you have Teleport UAA, probably Megascale to cover the range involved.)

 

Of course, if you respond with "Okay, then I set my car as my teleport location," then sure, you can teleport the car to you -- assuming your Teleport UAA can move enough mass.  Unless you car weights under 100 kg.  (Maybe one of those Mini-Coopers or Smart cars?)

[dsatow]

Just a note.  A fixed or floating location is a way to teleport TO.  It is not a way to make something auto targetable by teleport usable by/against another.

[PhilFleischmann]

1 hour ago, dsatow said:

Just a note.  A fixed or floating location is a way to teleport TO.  It is not a way to make something auto targetable by teleport usable by/against another.

Correct.  The idea of buying a Fixed or Floating Designated Thing that you can teleport to yourself is a new construct, as suggested in the first post of this thread.  It seems to me to be of comparable utility, and therefore, probably worth the same number of points.

[Duke Bushido]

1 hour ago, dsatow said:

Just a note.  A fixed or floating location is a way to teleport TO.  It is not a way to make something auto targetable by teleport usable by/against another.

 

 

_THANK YOU_!

 

Thank you so very, _very_ much!

 

I don't really know just where we got off track, but at some point in this thread we just accepted that teleporting the location wasn't even a question.  I became very confused.

 

To revisit the idea (obviously not needed for Stevezilla's build, as I think he has a final determination) of "teleporting your location to you," well this is pretty much just a floating location:  I delete the old location and reassign it to this spot of floor next to this chair.  Floating location.  

 

If we are going to make the location a physical thing, then we have to decide if the macguffin is just SFX-- well, no. It _has_ to be SFX using the floating location model.  If it's meant to be something else (let's just say it's a gun, because why not?).  If the location is "where this gun is," then we have a floating location _still_:  the "gun" is moved not by using Teleport, but by re-assigning your floating location.  The SFX of that is "teleporting" your gun to you and _placing it_ somewhere else.

 

If someone else can move the location for you (or against you), then it's a fixed location:  "where the gun is."

 

But now I have the gun!  I want to _use_ the gun!

 

That's a separate thing:  Deal ranged damage.  Let's call it Energy Blast.  Well, let me call it that, anyway.  You have an Energy Blast.  The SFX are it looks like a gun.  If you decide that the gun is in fact a focus, fine.  It's a focus.  Put lock-out on your teleport:  cannot use when using the gun.

 

 

Suppose you have a fixed location that someone else has moved unbeknownst to you?  Well that gets harder, but you can _still_ change your location by deciding to put the gun back in your hand because the gun-- focus or not-- is _also_ the SFX of your location.  Wasn't there a "fixed-floating" in one of the older editions?  That might be how I handle this.  Anyway, I can't look ingot it right now, as I'm lated getting supper started.

 

 

 

 

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

6 minutes ago, PhilFleischmann said:

Correct.  The idea of buying a Fixed or Floating Designated Thing that you can teleport to yourself is a new construct, as suggested in the first post of this thread.  It seems to me to be of comparable utility, and therefore, probably worth the same number of points.

I strongly disagree, but I've already stated my views. 

 

I feel, if you absolutely must invoke the teleport-construct (I maintain this to be a mistake), it should be based off Teleport, UAA, Trigger. 

[dsatow]

I'm like Duke.  I am getting it mixed up.  If its a new construct, can we call it fixed target or floating target to clarify things?

 

I agree, as a new construct, this is too cheap for all the benefits it has.