Starlord

My Cap is 612 points. SPD 6, DEX 28. Lay the Smite Down on his boy-scout, candy-ass, Thor!

Re: Re: The Joy of DEX It may work, but 'technically' it isn't in 'concept' in my opinion. Those NCM's are meant explicitly for Heroic campaigns for a reason. If you pay attention to the comics, there are no 'normal humans'. It's just an 'origin concept'. That's all. All those characters, at the root levels, are superheroes and supervillians. 'Normal' applies to none of them. Daredevil and Cap (and others) routinely fight powerful superhumans and do unbelievable Matrix-like (the 'old' bouncing off the flagpole argument)maneuvers. Steve 'got that' when he wrote 5th Edition. Their 'exceptional training' puts them closer to superhuman level.

What! An FR page with no Elminster write-up?

Just waxing nostalgic. Yeesh.

Yes. Time portals, raptors, T-Rex's, etc. What a great game!

...but I LIKED those old modules.

I wouldn't argue with you over Strange, but Thor has defeated SS one-on-one. Another point: I have trouble doing literal translations of the original MSH game. It was amusing for a brief period, but this was essentially a broken system with wild inconsistencies in stats in my opinion. Also, the stats given on the Marvel website are awful. They are about as far off as the top Strength levels in the Handbooks of the Marvel Universe. If I had to use a system, I'd use the Marvel SAGA system, but those are hard to translate as well.

:eek:

This is generally how I did it as well. Also, if the concept seemed more in line with high DEX, less CSLs thats how it was done. We never played with any limits other than total points, and never had a problem with DEX race, because we as players (and our GM) thought it was important we each had our own schtick.

I've read the thread. I'm the one who authored the original thread this one referenced. Thor is in my top 5 favorite superheroes. I totally agree Thor wins, although what Wizard says doesn't matter to me. I agree with most of reasons given here as to why Thor would win. I was merely nitpicking the oftmentioned point about "Thor is 'god' so he wins". Its been used before. A character's particular origin means absolutely nothing in comics. Period. If I was to compare Batman against Thor. I wouldn't say Batman loses because he's a 'normal' human and Thor is a 'god'. First off, EVERYONE is 'superhero/supervillain' in some form or other. There are no 'normal humans' in comics (which is why use of NCM in the superhero genre is plain nonsensical in my opinion). I would argue based solely on their abilities displayed in comics. In brief, Thor wins because both he and Supes have comparable power-levels, however, many of Thor's abilities are very suited to exploit Superman's weaknesses.

Exactly. Couple more points: -Just because you're a bruiser doesn't mean you can't have a decent or high DEX. -When I build these characters, I don't build them on effectiveness, I build them to simulate how they are most often portrayed in the comics. Also, I would use a practical baseline for their stats and powers, i.e. The Champions Universe. This is a universe without NCM (THANK GOD!). This is a universe where a stat of 31 is needed to be truly superhuman. I think it very closely resembles the Marvel Universe and mostly resembles the DC Universe. -I think its fair to make comparisons to certain characters in these universes. I feel Captain America is the greatest HTH fighter and strategist in Marvel. I certainly don't create a Cap that would get his ass whooped by Foxbat. I make a Cap comparable to Mechassassin, just like I make my Thor comparable (probably tougher) than Firewing.

Sigh. One more time for those hard of hearing. First: The term 'god' means little in the Marvel Universe. Superman is a superpowerful alien. Thor is half-Asgardian. Asgardians (just like other 'gods' in the Marvel Universe) are also...SUPERPOWERFUL ALIENS! Thor calls himself a 'god' because he allowed himself to be worshipped by Earthlings. In Marvel, 'god' is a title, and has no bearing on a fight. Obviously, to say Thor would win ANYTHING merely because he is a 'god' is nonsense. Second: Asgardians are NOT immortal. Asgardians do not regenerate when they die. Asgardians are EXTREMELY long-lived, and EXTREMELY resistant to disease, fire, cold, etc. Thats it. P.S. It is the Olympians (another race of superpowered aliens) in the Marvel Universe who are true immortals.

Re: About Superman's "Super Speed" Just a reminder. In the Marvel Universe God = Alien (VERY POWERFUL alien, yes) Thor is not immortal.

JLA/AVENGERS INFO Coming in Fall 2003 Kurt Busiek/George Perez Note that right now is not called JLA VERSUS Avengers, just JLA/AVENGERS. Some of the info I've read indicates an interdimensional menace that both teams will battle. The 4 issue mini-series will involve, to some extent or another, EVERY member of both teams in their entire history. It will also apparently have prominent Marvel/DC villains such as Magneto, Dr. Doom, Starro, etc. Given space constraints in 4 issues (though double-sized issues) I doubt there will major characters facing off. At least, not facing off to the extent of deciding a clear victor. I'm guessing some minor tussles, before teaming up to beat the baddies. Here...Wizard magazine has some extensive info on the crossover if you sift through the pages thoroughly. http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/moz/perez/info/jla-avengers1.htm

The answer is 5.

Can't believe I have to defend Supes here, but I don't think the fact that Thor is a 'god' matters one bit. In the Marvel Universe, 'gods' are essentially extradimensional superpowerful aliens. Take out the XD part, and you've got Supes. One is powered by magic, the other by yellow sun radiation (or whatever...Supes has been changed so much who knows what his actual origin is anymore. I prefer the nice simple version that I provided.).

Completely agree, the whip-like action of a bat or similar object enables you to generate more speed...but I still don't think it any of that applies when mountain-shattering punches can already be thrown by these two individuals.

I'm saying at Supes' and Thor's respective power levels it shouldn't make a difference whether they hit you with their fists, uru mallets, adamantium crowbars, etc. They are ALL superhard objects coming at you with superfast speed. The rest we can agree to (slightly) disagree. I presented the hammer's abilities as I've seen in Thor/Avengers comics. I'll gladly claim bias as Thor is one of my favs.

I hate to bring 'realistic' science into this type of argument, but at that level of power your argument has no merit. A hammer hits harder than my fist because its made of a harder substance than a human hand (metal or wood) and often because of its extra weight. In other words, if I ripped your arm off and beat you with it, it ain't gonna do much more damage than my fist. Thor's fists (and Supes for that matter) don't 'give' like a human being. If the hammer is just an extension of that, it has no particular reason to do more damage. Frankly, I'm flat out stunned at your last sentence I quoted. My first thought was "Has he ever READ an issue of Thor or the Avengers?" I'm SURE that is not the case, though. It is suggested dozens of times throughout both comics. There are numerous statements by Thor alluding to this fact. Odin has spoken of the magical damage the hammer can cause. Not to mention (if you require visual means) Thor has, on several occasions, made the hammer blaze, combust, and so forth, with magical energy whenever he wants to deal out a particularly telling blow to an opponent. It wouldn't be a one blow fight, obviously. Two heroes never actually decide a victor, they end up teaming against the bad guy. But if you want a clear victor, based on how they are generally used in their respective comics, I say the odds are in Thor's favor.

I started the last big Supes/Thor thread, and I've seen it argued a dozen or so times. I don't recall anyone plausibly making the argument that a magical character's 'strength' could damage Supes (actually this is the first I've even seen it mentioned). Thor's hammer is obviously a magic weapon (and if you hold to actual myth, it was so 'powerful and blazing hot' that Thor needed a magical glove just to grab it). As a general rule in the comics, when Thor hits with Mjolnir its a bigger wallop than a punch from his fist. Thor once asked Odin to allow him to fight the Hulk without the hammer so the fight would be 'fair'. I think the 'magic weapon' producing all sorts of magic effects (such as XD movement USABLE ON OTHERS , and his Anti-Energy beam) gives him the edge. It'd be more equal if Supes ever used his superspeed.

YAY! Wow, people are smarter than I thought.

This sounds excellent.

Could you provide a bit more clarity on what will be in Fantasy HERO as compared to the Fantasy HERO Grimoire? Is the Grimoire ONLY going to contain spell examples? Sort of a Fantasy UNTIL Database? Or will it contain different magic systems, as well as magic items (the latter would be an EXCELLENT addition in my opinion). Or will the main FH book contain the magic systems? Also will it have extensive magic-based character packages (as well as other fantasy character archetypes and packages)? AND approximately how many actual character examples will the books have? Thanks

For those interested in character art, there's a new program in development that looks to improve on the old Heromachine concept. It can be found in the Software/Online Resources forum.

Re: Colored Champions Pics These pics are being discussed in about 3-4 different threads, but did this specific question actually get answered somewhere? The full pics would be excellent.