sinanju

If they were expressing a philosophy of hatred and genocide maybe, but they weren't.  Nor did they murder anybody.  Ergo there is no equivalency.

With the exception of the guy behind the wheel of that car, neither did any of the protestors. Unless you know something nobody else does--in which case, you have notified the cops, right? Hateful bigots attacking other hateful bigots: equivalency.

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right to peaceably assemble. The fact that these scum-sucking, pieces of worm- ridden excrement showed up armed shows intent and malice aforethought to make mischief. I don't hold the counter-protestors completely innocent, but the white supremacist bastards were looking to do harm, not stage a peaceful protest.

 

Speaking as one of those evil Right-wingers, those monsters wearing human form do not represent anything I believe in.

And the fact that the Antifa showed up armed shows intent and malice aforethought. THAT'S the equivalency.

I hold them to the current levels and power of characters already in the game: you don't come in at a penalty unless you want to (for rp reasons).  And you get cake.  Or at least some chips.

This. Players are free to create characters on their own, though we happily offer suggestions and critiques, and the PC gets posted to the online group we use for that, as well as for coordinating the games, posting fic pieces, and so forth. Once the character is in play, the player is free to make some adjustments if the build turns out not to be what they were trying for. (For that matter, any player is pretty much free to rewrite a character, or bring in a new one, whenever they like.)

Trump did condemn, "in the strongest possible terms," the actions "on all sides." In other words, condemn the result, but don't actually blame specific parties, some of whom probably include supporters of his.

 

In the meantime, his other words -- about immigration restriction, tightened security, loosened bounds for law-enforcement -- are taken by extremists as code-words of tacit support, emboldening them.

How extremists (of any stripe) take his words is not Trump's responsibility--or any other politician's responsibility, when extremists take their words to mean whatever they claim. Extremists will hear what they want to hear, or claim to hear it. Some of those extremists will be on the other side, and will use those alleged words of tacit support ("dogwhistles") to villify the politician who spoke them.

I think he was saying that right-wingers WANT to be better than Nazis, and generally are better, and it's unfair to have Nazis lumped into the right-wing "side"

Yeah, but calling everyone who disagrees with you, or criticizes your politics, a "nazi" or a "racist" is a great way to smear everyone on that side of the aisle. Which is why they do it.

Can we agree that Nazis and white supremacists are their own special category and don't really belong in any "both sides do it" framing?

No, we can't. 

Using the threat of violence--or actual violence--to intimidate and stifle the speech of people you disagree with is beyond the pale, no matter who you are. No matter who THEY are. If you want to claim to be better than Nazis and white supremacists, then be better. Don't pretend that some folk on your side aren't doing exactly the same things. Don't try to tell us it's different when you do it. It isn't.

A yep. It does that. It also makes the players on the frontier cut off from "central authority" and unable to call in aid or call for orders even if they wanted to. So it essentially leaves them in a position where they have to act on their own.

 

Almost....almost like, the game was set up, deliberately, to make a group of explorers or other adventurous types act on it's own. Not just giving them the option of taking action on their own but making it an essential part of the universe.

 

Damn, that Marc Miller sure is smart...

It's the same model Gene Roddenberry used for Star Trek. While most current incarnations seems to have instantaneous FTL communication, the original Trek often had the Enterprise far enough from Starfleet HQ that it could take days or weeks or more for a message to be sent and a response received. This was, as with Traveller, intentional, so that Kirk had to be given the authority (and responsibility) to make big decisions. No passing the buck up the chain of command.

I'm a fan of Traveller. I played in a Traveller game for years when it first came out (1977--yes, I'm old). We never used the official setting. The GM had a universe based on (among other things) the Federation, Empire and Republic of Commerce from the Starguard miniatures combat game, with heavy doses of the Empire from Star Wars (just released at the time), Larry Niven's "Known World" colony worlds, and whatever else caught his fancy (mostly old pulp/sf novels and movies).

I'm currently (and slowly) populating a subsector for a Mongoose Traveller 2 game that I might, someday, try to run.

I was left in the company of four very obnoxious guys (and I was female in this dream, apparently). I decided to nope right on out of there, but one of the guys grabbed my wrist and expressed his displeasure (quite profanely) that I had the temerity to try to leave when he wasn't done with me. At which point he whipped out a knife.

Seeing as I was no match for him physically, I decided--being lucid enough to realize I was dreaming--that I'd be invulnerable. And a good thing too, because he tried to cut and stab me many times, all over. After this went on long enough to get me really annoyed, I snatched up a knife (I'm not sure if it was his, or another) and drove it up under his chin and into his brain and put an end to his assault. At which point I woke up and marveled at what I'd just dreamed.

That wasn't in the least bit fantasy. It was probably skimming on your part.

 

I was talking about baton options, not firearms. Trust me, I used to do the job, not just play one on TV. (Thankfully, I never had to do the job as a civilian, as they have it much worse.)

Yeah, I missed that. Okay, then. We're in violent agreement.

They may have had room to take a shot at her traps or collar bone (or noggin, which is technically lethal force but still better than a bunch of bullets), or they may not have. A thrust would have put them at risk against a knife. The knife in that space is strictly superior to their batons. If they screwed up, they stood a fair chance of getting cut or stabbed.

This is fantasy. In the real world, you aim for center of mass. Period. Anything else increases the risk to you, and to anyone behind the target, because it vastly increases the chances that you'll miss completely. Meaning that you could hit a bystander, and/or the target could close and attack you with the knife.

Otherwise, though, I pretty much agree. A former cop friend of mine (he worked corrections, and was on the corrections SWAT team) swears by tasers. He says (and I believe him) that he's read all the reports claiming tasers can kill people, and that he's also searched out and read the primary sources they cite--and it's bogus. In pretty much every case there's at least one and usually several other far more plausible causes of death. And, having to extract a homicidal AND suicidal prisoner from a small cell which he's covered with his own blood and sh*t to make it slippery, while waving around a sharp piece of the *steel* mirror he shouldn't have been able to break in the first place...yeah, a taser is really useful. Nobody does anything useful while they're being tased, which gives them a chance to grab and subdue him with minimal risks.

So, yeah, if the cops are already carrying a firearm, a radio, handcuff, possibly a flashlight, and a baton--a taser or a can of pepper spray isn't that much more, even if you have to worry about 'tactical girth'.

On the other hand, having heard his stories of dealing with stupid policies imposed by politicians (real politicians and the upper management who might as well be), it may well be that the Seattle cops would agree that having pepper spray and or a taser would be a good idea--but they're not allowed. So they do the best they can with the tools they're given.

With respect, zslane, all that you say is true, but ultimately it's a rationalization. Social inequities, entrenched positions, wouldn't exist without human greed, selfishness, fear and hatred. War wouldn't be necessary if Mankind was governed by reason and compassion. Ants are the only other species on this planet which engage in large-scale murder of their own kind; but ants aren't capable of imagining a better way.

 

Ares' position is not unreasonable for a being who has indeed watched all of human history, and seen the same destructive behavior repeated again and again. But Diana and Steve Trevor together come to a more balanced perspective, that humanity is deeply flawed, but there's also much that's good in us.

And war wouldn't be possible without humanity's virtues--courage, honor, duty, loyalty. If everyone were greedy, selfish and cowardly, nobody could field an army. It's a two-edged sword. And if you think only humans and ants fight wars, you haven't been paying attention. Chimps and other primates go on raiding parties, attacking, killling--and EATING--chimps from other bands, as one example. Most predators, it's true, don't fight in organzed fashion--but most predators are solitary, and will fight--and kill, or die, if it comes to that--to hold their solitary territorities against other rivals. Heck, even prey species will fight--sometimes dying in the process--for territory, or breeding rights.

Conflict, even organized conflict, is hardly a uniquely human thing. Or intelligence has allowed us to do it bigger and better than any other species, but--like so many other attributes once thought to be unique to humans, it's only a matter of degree.

That said, in game terms, what damage does a mortar shell do, circa 1938?  Maybe 3 1/2 KAP or 3 1/2 KEX, depending on the type of shell.

So if it takes a "bursting shell" to penetrate his skin, he's got about 18 rPD (3dK won't do it. 3-1/2K *can* penetrate his skin, but won't do much damage.) That's pretty super.

I've started watching Jane The Virgin on Netflix. I really like it. It's funny, and it's a master class (especially the first episode) in how to info-dump a LOT of information while remaining witty and entertaining. And, as the series goes on, it's a great example of how to slowly, gradually, build up a huge, twisting, intertwined set of characters and relationships. I recommend it.

Agreed.  Loved it also.

 

One of the things that I noticed about it was that it was remarkably free of irony or cynicism.   It's protagonist was just plain good in the way that you would expect from a DC superhero, but which none of DC movies prior to this have delivered.  It is not imitating Marvel movies with heroism robed in irreverence and snark, it is like DC movies should be with heroism sincere and the feels genuine.

 

 

I just walked in the door from seeing it tonight (in 3D, no less*). I think you summed it up quite well. The very young Diana was utterly charming. Gal Gadot was very good (and very hot). Chris Pine was also very good as Steve Trevor. The snark level, as mentioned, was very low. Steve was doing the right thing because it was the right thing. As he put it, "When you see something wrong, you can do nothing, or you can do something. I tried doing nothing." That's all he said, and it's all we ever learn of his motivation--and it was enough. You can fill in the rest for yourself.

It was everything the other DCEU movies have NOT been.

*For many years, I didn't go to 3D movies because my wife couldn't handle them--they made her motion sick. But we're separated now, so that's not an issue any longer. I enjoyed the 3D, but it's not something I feel I have to have; I chose that one because it was the next available showing and I didn't want to kill an hour waiting around for another.

Iron Maiden will be a little envious, frankly, that they've each found another person they can trust so completely and depend upon in a fight. But she'll still kick their asses because that's the job.

IMO a lot of the appeal of Legends this past season was due to Matt Letscher as Eobard Thawne. Whether on that show or the Flash's Letscher gave us a brilliant, ruthless, deliciously arrogant villain who was also very human, displaying a lot of emotional range. Whatever else was going on his Reverse Flash always entertained me. And because of the buildup his ultimate demise was very satisfying.

 

(Which brings up another issue I found annoying in the Flash season finale -- the nerfing of Black Flash.)

Different strokes, I guess. I never found Thrawne all that interesting. On the other hand, I could watch Damien Dhark chew the scenery all day. I love that guy.

Riverdale for me, but Legends holds my number 2 spot.

Riverdale started strong (for me), but I lost interest and stopped watching about halfway in.

Oddly enough for me, Legends season 2 was the best of the CW shows this year.

Me three. Well, what I saw of it, anyhow. Which was only the last two or three episodes. (But I've read a number of things online that suggest that S2 was far better than a very rocky S1 for Legends.)

Worse, as far as prospects for future CW superhero shows on my tv go, is Supergirl. I watched...half of the season finale. And today I tried to watch the rest, but after a minute or two, I just deleted it unwatched. I. Just. Can't. Bring. Myself. To. Care. Too many flavors of stupid combined to create an unpalatable mess.

I've complained before in the Supergirl thread about how virtually every villain can give Kara a real fight, when that should very rarely be the case. That was part of it. Terry Hatcher shouldn't have a chance against her.

Words cannot express how much I detest Mon-El and the whole Mon-El/Kara "romance". (Not to get all SJW about this--since mostly I find those people annoying as hell--but they spent the whole first season showing Kara pining after James, only to dump that plot immediately so she could have a romance with the white dudebro space frat boy? Seriously?)

If we're gonna be subjected to romance (and this is the CW, so that's a big "definitely") I'd much rather watch Alex and Detective Girlfriend (I can't remember anyone's names tonight)

Or Kara and Lena. (I know they're never gonna go there, any more than Supernatural is ever gonna fess up to Dean/Castiel, but the less screen time Space Fratboy gets, the better.)

Plus, the "contaminate earth's atmosphere with lead" to drive away the aliens? Uh, okay, humans don't have an instantly-lethal allergic reaction to lead...but it's still bad for us, okay? Not a great plan.

So, I guess...the Flash finale, bad as it was, wasn't THAT bad. I did watch it all the way thru, in bits and pieces. I couldn't sit thru the Supergirl finale.

Well, I finally watched the Flash season finale (it sat on my Tivo for a couple of days before I got around to it), and it...

That was abominable. I'm not all sure I'll bother to keep watching next season.

I had forgotten how much I missed Cat! (Even if the political allegory speechifying got a little more heavy-handed than usual.

Yeah, that sort of no-escape-from-liberal-politics BS will drive me away when not much else could if it gets too frequent.

I concur with the apparent utter lack of concern for all the DEO redshirts, as well as the pilots, staff, and media pool (well, okay, not so much them...) of Air Force One. The very idea that a) the President would swoop into a warzone on Air Force One in the first place, or that the Secret Service would LET her is suspension-of-disbelief breaking in a big way. But, eh, I've seen worse.

Plus, HOW LONG has the DEO had the Invincible Maguffin? It seems to me like it could have been used in a lot of episodes prior to this one...unless it's so unwieldy it can only be aimed at city-sized spaceships or something....

Sense8 season 2. Watch it. Aloha.

I watched this episode in about 10 minutes, with my finger on the 30-second skip Tivo button. Not a good sign.

I agree with everything bigdamhero said in his previous post, with the exception of it being hard to give up on the Arrowverse. I gave up last season and never looked back (same with Flash). I found it quite easy to do, actually.

 

Re: "So what's your Kryptonite?" - Why would Lena expect Kara to know that Kryptonite is a source of weakness for anything/anyone? I guess we're basically being told that its effect on Superman is such common knowledge on this version of Earth that it has entered into the popular vernacular there.

If it's anywhere near as common in this universe as it was in Smallville, then yeah, at some point someone would have published the information (even if not Lois or anyone at the Planet).

Yes, that's true--Kryptonite was *everywhere* on Smallville. And that's because the writers of Smallville had the same mindset as the writers of Supergirl. They're SUPER. Most villains *shouldn't* be a real physical threat. Give them powers that make them a challenge without having every bad guy capable of a one-on-one punchout with Clark/Kara. Livewire was a good start; the hard part of catching her was, well, catching her. Being able to vanish into the nearest electrical outlet and move undetectably through the grid is gonna make it hard for even Kara to catch you. Mind control is good. Invisibility. Intangibility. Shapeshifting. (If I can instantly vanish into a crowd of bystanders, being able to punch me out with your little finger doesn't help until/unless you can find me.)

There are ways to challenge our heroine without making every jumped up thug a tough fight.