nexus

Re: Lucha Hero Well, IIRC, the text mentions it applies to turn buckles or an appropriate object to swing off. Rey Mysterio's 619, for example, often uses the ring ropes. Renaming it might be a good idea (maybe Swing). OTOH, Mini is pretty darn genre specific.

Re: Lucha Hero There's no game threatening reason not to use the new elements in Luche Libra Hero in other games, MA or other wise? Actually, I hope they include something in the UMA 6th about creating new elements. Even some simple guidelines would add allot of value for me.

There's an alchemist character in Fantasy game I'm currently running who's apprenticed to her much more experienced parents. She also has a yearning for adventure which technically her parents frown on (having their only daughter running around in dark caverns fighting and fraternizing with Gods know what isn't what good parents should do...) but their feelings are soothed over by the rare and interesting components, flora and fauna samples she brings back from her adventures. The daughter, Adele, has gotten into the habit of "borrowing" items from their workshop before her forays. She often sneaks something or hastily grabs a random bottle or geegaw without checking thoroughly too see what it is or misunderstands the arcane labeling. In any event, she usually gets something useful or at least innocuous but occasionally her luck runs out and she gets a surprise. Not a lethal one but an overall detriment to her (and possibly her companion's) well being. How would you suggest representing this on her character sheet?

Re: Social System I know I keep harping on this aspect of social skill rules but personal experience has made me something of a hard case about. The intent of the social action should taken into account in situation where negotiation is required. IOW, negotiation to maintain the target concept shouldn't turn a successful roll into effectively a failure. Putting aside the issue of "binding" social systems (any social system can be binding if the player's agree to it), the type of expansion I'd like to see would be similar to the treatment giving car chases and Combat Driving in 4th edition "Justice not Law" even with that system you could still settled a car chase with a simple roll-off if it was that important but they offered more. Tables, modifiers, even random events and expansions including how other skills might come into play that would make social interaction more interesting and involved to provide a more in depth resolution system would be great.

Re: Sub-Zero's Ice Clones I like this one best, I think. Nice work

Re: Sub-Zero's Ice Clones That's a pretty cool idea (no pun intended)! I'm not sure if the it would stop the attack itself as a Dmg Shield though. Maybe link several DCV levels to it to simulate jumping out of the way? If the attack hits still the character didn't form the clone fast enough. Edit: I guess you could throw a no range limited force wall into the build too "hitting the ice clone instead of me"

Re: Sub-Zero's Ice Clones Alternatively, a really roundabout way to do handle it would be to use Summon to create mindless, immobile, perfectly loyal automaton that just stood there waiting for someone to touch it and set off its Entangle Dmg Sheild which destroys/banishes it instantly until its "Summoned" again. The creature would be pretty cheap (most of its characteristics are nonexistent, it has no skills and only one power with 1 charge) unfortunately in the RAW it's many Disadvantages wouldn't reduce its cost any. It's not so weird since there are canonical examples of "attacks" built this way: some super smart missiles and the homage to Darkseid's Omega beams in one supplement.

Re: Sub-Zero's Ice Clones IIRC, Sub-Zero's ice clones are basically booby traps. If you touch them in the game your target is frozen in place as if they'd been hit by one of his Freeze Blasts. The simplest mechanical way to represent this, IMO, would be an Entangle with Physical Manifestation (Ice Statue), Trigger: When Manifestation is touched and possible AE: 1 Hex accurate (target the person that set it off) to avoid any "hit roll" issues. There's probably more mechanical wrinkles but as a GM I'd be willing to handwave them, but check with yours. The problem I see with this is that, in an rpg environment its not going to be very effective. In the video game you can create when your target can't avoid it (they're jumping for example) or it sets of up a hazard on one part of the screen that your opponent has to deal with because its limited to 2d. In a rpg fight, movement is less restricted to the Ice Clone would be easier to avoid so its uses would be more limited than it's final cost might reflect particularly if you are trying to fit in under 50 ap.

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group... And one of the edited scenes in Hancock illustrates the problems that afflict bricks of the other gender. Edit: Look for a short story called "Facets of Solitude" for a much more gruesome examination of the topic from a female perspective with a very non four color resolution.

Re: Social System Utech's proposal aside, I've been under the impression that many of the proponents of expanding the social were looking mainly at expanding the correct one rather than building one from scratch along the lines you suggest. Aside from the results being able to be handwaved, the primary issue with the current system appears to be that it's very simple and binary, the modifiers and in some cases, the skills themselves and how they interact aren't highly developed. Some people have developed house rules or intuitive rules of thumb that work for their groups but as I understand the idea for the thread was to develop something more codified and "tactically" interesting. Building on what we have already is a good start. One way to implement your suggestion, IMO, would be to steal from the level of effect tables for PRE attack or Mental powers. They have the needed structure in a familiar format and I think they'd just require some rewording to work pretty well for comparing margin of success for defining how much the target's reactions are constrained/steered by the intent of the aggressor's roll.

Re: Tactical Genius I used Level with All Combat, usable by others simultaneously with Requires a Skill roll: Tactics for this affect. Danger sense might be applicable. Your character is so good at analyzing tactics he can predict ambushes and other would be surprises in a battle. Defense Maneuver Usable by others is a possibility Combat Sense (he's so good at predicting his opponent's moves he doesn't even need to see them to counter them). Even full blown Precognition in Combat is possible but you should clear that with your GM because that be a pain to run.

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group... From my Wyldstryke Universe campaign Brickhouse and Crush, two female "brick" type characters are having sort of a girls night out and talking at a bar, trading stories. Crush: You know what really sucks about having superhuman strength? Getting used to the fact that every geek in the area with a seismograph knows when you get lucky. There's even slang for it. "Bed Quakes".

Re: Social effects There seems to be something of a assumption in this thread. Yes, there are people that clearly have no interest in the type of social system that Utech is suggesting, apparently would react with extreme negativity. But there are many that would be. As has been pointed out on this thread there are plenty of rpgs that have similar rules that are played and enjoyed by many gamers. So the idea of them itself is certainly not anathema to enjoyable play. It's a preference like there are some people that detest combat in rpgs and it falls on the both the players and GMs to be clear about what they want to see and what they would enjoy to make for enjoyable play.

Re: Ogrecave 6E interview Please, please, please lets not drag out that tired, withered husk of equine and start stomping on it again. I'm pro keeping Comeliness and I'm tired of dealing with at this point Besides it's not even on topic for this thread.

Re: Ogrecave 6E interview The Com debate. Harder to kill than Superman. It's an issue for me but if it's the only or one of the few changes implemented that I don't like I'll grudgingly house rule it back in. But loss of characteristic (pretty much a certainty as it seems) is a check in the negative for me.

Re: Expanded Shazam power set question That's pretty cool

Re: Ogrecave 6E interview Interesting... Any plans to cross post this to RPG.net?

Re: Social System If the particular game incorporates Hero Points maybe those could be spent to avoid results. Seems fair since they'd allow the player to reject certain things in the physical realm too and would have a game effect.

Re: Social effects I might be in the minority here but I think social skills should have a chance to work in combat situations. Any attempts would be incredibly difficult from the penalty for rushing if nothing else so wouldn't be the optimal choice but reasoning, manipulation, etc can be used and have effects in "combat". Basically I don't see combat and roleplaying as distinct situations in the game world. Combat is just a situation were a more precise and granular measure of time is required.

Re: Social effects In my ideal system there would be a system to determine the results of engagement/disengagement. But that might be overkill since drawing someone into a discussion, debate or argument could simply be another type of social action. Perhaps something like a Pre attack with skills like Conversation or Seduction complimentary. I'll reply to your earlier post on social skills "to hit" and Pre based "damage" as soon I can dig it up.

Re: Social effects And yet many games survive these mechanics quite well. I've personally seen well over a dozen, heard about many more and played in many more. Strictly in my experience any trouble that has arisen hasn't been from the GM forcing an "inappropriate" reaction from the player its from the player getting mad about 1. His character doing something suboptimal/not tactical but, afaict, reasonable given the circumstances. In other words when it was inconvenient or 2. Just being plain stubborn and resisting the figurative "Man" trying to keep him down. IOW, bad play. On the flip side, Using social reactions I've one incident with a player myself and that boiled down OOC matters effecting game play and in a way that's had been an issue before in games. I've certainly heard about GMs bulldozing PCs most often in games with light and no resolution for it at all so the GM could simply roll a die and declare an outcome, but some had been with more codified levels of social mechanics being abused. But both sides are anecdotal evidence. So I'm not saying (and I don't think anyone is really) that what we've called "hard" social mechanics are perfect, everyone needs to use them, etc. But I am saying they're not an objectively bad idea, some gamers enjoy them, not every game with them is a failure and tears groups apart. I think a set of rules like this could be a benefit to Hero System and allow for wider range of play styles for the universal toolkit. If a specific group feels they don't need that particular tool they can leave it in the box like Comeliness, Speed or Powers all together. I'm not sure why this thread has become a battleground to prove that very idea of advanced social system will is a universally bad idea or will cripple any game which implements one. Nor am I, and I hope anyone else trying to cram the idea down anyone's throat. But from my end there seems to be focused effort to smother the subject in cradle that started on page 1 of the thread and now gone on for 300 posts seemingly getting more hostile and zealous with each post. When its really about nothing more than house rules. If you're not playing in someone's game the adopts them they have no impact on your play experience and this isn't a 6th edition forums so it's not a proposal proposal to Steve Long. Odds he'll never see this thread.

Re: Social effects

Re: Social effects Crazy idea, addressing the original topic. In my marginal notes on social systems I am considering using Pre attack to do the lions share of the work regarding the types of social actions you can take in combat scale time. Basically, short, direct and simple. "Look over there! or "I'm not the general!" and "He went that way!" Distractions quick bluffs and other things meant to net some short term benefits roughly analogous to losing hesitating on an attack or losing a phase. Honestly of the mechanical effects would be similar just a matter of special effect. The most changes that would required for the current Pre rules is to make them more explicitly applicable to more than mostly violence and intimidation and inspiration. There should be some rules for the character's skills being complimentary, say Acting for a distraction type "attack" or Seduction/Comeliness for "Vamping" someone. Overall, I don't think this would be difficult and handled most ultra short term social interaction pretty well.

Re: Social effects I've tried to step back and just watch the thread but I have to say something about this. A "feral child" can have social defenses. Not being ingrained in civilization doesn't mean they can't have courage, willpower and conviction or just be stubborn (I am leader of pack!) Many such characters are actually somewhat more adept at resisting manipulation because their "instincts" like know BS when they smell it and see though the "facade of social games" so called civilized people play. It's Hero System almost everything can have many different sfx. In fact, you can make a case that high social skills don't necessarily make you better at resisting them. The con gets conned is a pretty common twist. They think they're totally in control and never think they might be the one getting played for once. Tarzan, Sheena and other "King/Queen of the Wild" characters might be naive about the outside world and easy to trick in that way, at least the first time but in interpersonal relationships they can be quite on the ball (adept at spotting deception and following their instincts) if unpolished, feral and crass (No social skills except maybe raw Presence as an "Alpha" type). Defenses and the skills are not one in the same though the latter can be part of the former. Its archetype I've played and play and it's never felt to me that they have to effortless to manipulate. Can that be part of the concept, particularly for humor value (see George of the Jungle) but I don't feel its mandatory.

Re: Social effects Fair enough I guess but I don't see why you'd have to rewrite anything in this case. If you don't like any social system developed unless it dramatically changes the nature of the game (which I don't see happening) just ignore it like the folks that hate Comeliness, Pre attacks or the general notion of Interaction skills at all do already.