TrickstaPriest

Ah, but it's okay.  I wasn't trying to rag on you or anything - I just am saying that I'm firm in the belief that we've gotten -very good- at busting up protests.  My complaint is that we are so good at it, it's impossible to protest anymore.  I also wanted to float the thought that, by cutting off water supply, you are exercising a soft force to cut the protest faster. 
 
Using soft forces isn't wrong... but my concern is that we are so good at breaking/slandering/fostering violence in protests, that it's impossible to tell how much of this is being created intentionally, and how much is just bad decisions by everyone involved.
 
I was hearing something (I literally can't seem to find the video) that this comes with our association with the IDF and Saudia Arabia enforcement - we send people to train them in experimental suppression tactics, they apply them in those countries and see how they work, and then we bring the personnel we sent to train them back to train our own police.  The reason I mention this is it might explain why some people feel these tactics are so brutal - they never originated in a relatively peaceful country.

I am astounded with what is happening in the USA for the past week. 
 
Growing up in the 1970's I looked at the US with envious eyes.  It had all of the things that I admired and wanted.  It was shining beacon of hope and optimism (even amidst the whole vietnam thing).  America was the bastion of the free west and Russia was an omni-present threat.  Obviously I was growing up in a white privileged world where I was oblivious to why the Cold War was not cold and many people (not white) were dying all over the Southern Hemisphere.
 
Still - modern, wealthy, optimistic with access to all of the good things in life.  People there seemed to get on with life better, produce better things and better tv programmes.  The US also seemed to have a better outlook on life and to be aiming higher when the UK was aiming and failing just to stay the same.  America in the late 70s seemed to be heading for the stars while we were sinking into potential for urban decay and uprising.  Obviously I was growing up in Scotland during the Thatcher years where immediate relative poverty was omnipresent and there was nothing new or shiny in my life. I could only dream of growing up to move to move to America where my cousins in Long Island seemed to live an idyllic life.
 
Over the years it is amazing how that changed.  I still admired the core American Dream - I even came over and worked and lived in the US for a few years but my life, my awareness and my priorities were changing.  I came back from the US because, after growing up within the security of a national health service, America seemed a dangerous place to be sick and too many people seemed to get caught in the financial nets of the health insurance people.  I also watched as the number of school shootings became more and more commonplace until they were not worthy of top billing on news programmes and did not think I wanted to send my children to school in place where they were in danger of being shot.
 
Even after all that I still saw America as a much better place to be, it was just my lack of robustness that led me to want to stick to the health safety of the UK. 
 
Now, as I watch the videos rolling out of the US every day with a sick fascination I am beginning to think that I was lucky not to have stayed.  People getting huge bills for getting sick during a pandemic, police on the streets seemingly relishing spraying people with pepper spray and groups beating individuals with batons.  I look at a population no longer scared of being killed by the police but accepting that this is the risk they live with every day and they might as well face it while shouting that it is not right than hoping it happens to someone else with the same colour of skin as they have. 
 
My experience of prejudice is anti-Irish, anti-catholic prejudice in the UK in the 70's and 80's.  That lead to bombs and underground armies.  I then look at the proliferation of weapons in the US and while the looting is bad, I cannot help but wonder how long it will be before a small group of people so sick of the disparity between armed police and unarmed protestors decide to switch it around.  How many men with automatic weapons would it take to cause an atrocity?  What would happen then?  Are there enough cool heads to stop police and armed forces going out and killing many more?  Enough to stop white folks going out with their own guns and killing more?? 
 
It really scares me.  It is the first time in my 55 years on this planet where I would absolutely prefer to be in the UK than in the US (and that is in the context of Boris and Brexit which makes it even more poignant for me).
 
I hope this current issue fades away but I do not see any hope that the underlying causes will be addressed and that the deployment of men with guns only deals with the immediate symptoms and that the next time, or the one after because there will be more, will be the one where the country goes up in flames.
 
I mourn for the American Dream I admired so much when I was young...I miss it and I think the world does too  😞
 
Doc

The high profile that white-on-black injustice and violence has in the United States, white-on-red injustice and violence has here in Canada. There are large regions of my country, mostly north of the big cities, where First Nations people (as we call them today) are the majority. They're very active in trying to secure their rights, and some have gained substantial control over their traditional lands. But that's meant that a lot of what's gone on under the radar of most white Canadians for a long time, has increasingly come to light.

They will.
 
I think I said before, humans are incredibly ill suited towards handling the responsibilities of a pandemic.
 
But I doubt this would be happening, especially as severely here, if the coronavirus didn't happen.  Incredibly high unemployment and poverty gets people on the streets, consequences be damned 😕

The Floyd incident has done something amazing to me...
 
I've done a ton of shopping online for a long time now, and in many places.  So I get LOTS of promotional/announcement emails from those merchants.  In the last...7 to 10 days or so...I've seen more "we stand against racism/violence" messages *from companies* than I can ever recall.  High end coffee.  Outdoor gear.  Silk-screen apparel, mugs, etc.  2 from watch and strap blogs/vendors...one of which is in Australia!  A crafters' storefront.  I don't remember them all, but it's been a BUNCH.  MANY of these, AFAIR, have not made such statements in the past;  they just don't get political.  But here they are.
 
As for the Buffalo cops that resigned...
 
There was an article in, I'm pretty sure the NYT this morning about police departments that'd done a much better job in changing the statistics:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/briefing/george-floyd-buffalo-coronavirus-your-friday-briefing.html
 
It's paywalled, so the high points...some of the things that've worked
--de-escalation training
--tougher measures to pull violent cops off the streets 
--sometimes, increasing the numbers...tired and stressed people make bad decisions
 
So m cynical side says, how many  of the cops that resigned are disgusted by the lack of support to their fellow officers...misplaced as that might be...and how many are doing it before they get nailed for doing the same thing?
 
If the cops in that video were following procedure, then senior members of the department responsible for the training curriculum NEED to be fired.  That CANNOT have been correct implementation, IMO.

I wish you the best.
 
 
It does sound like the crash is unrelated to the protest and riots, but I do agree (in that police are necessary for this situation).  But as you say, there's no "winning" in this.

Oh, people understand. We're going with the "Stopping coronavirus is hard, and so we gave up" strategy. 

If there is any signs of hope, it's that in many cities the protests have stayed peaceful on both sides. And that some military leaders are censuring Trump's bluster about using soldiers against protesters/rioters -- the ones still serving are carefully measured in their reminders that they took oath to defend the Constitution, not the mad whims of whoever's in the Oval Office, but they are still saying it. It seems they do not want to be actively complicit in the slide to autocracy.
 
It is a small point of light in a dark time, but I'll take it and hope it grows. Despots need to be sure that soldiers will fire upon their own people when ordered, and some of the people tasked with transmitting those orders are saying there are orders they will not obey.
 
Moreover, the recent statements from bishops and former general Mattis have held contempt as well as outrage. As Machiavelli warned, a ruler can survive hatred, but contempt is far more dangerous.
 
Dean Shomshak

I must admit: I feel some relief that our late board member Lapsedgamer did not live to see this episode in our history.

At this point, I fear they don't care.

No kidding. They smashed a place because some times folks throw bottled WATER at them? that's the threat?
 
Who knew these guys would melt like a witch from oz if hydrated?

Sure, the murderer got caught ... by the cell phone carrying public.  This cop had been 18 prior complaints filed against him with internal affairs, and yet he was still working for the  Minneapolis Police Department.  It took him killing a man in broad daylight in front a score of witnesses taking cell phone videos of the whole thing for the Minneapolis PD to do anything.  Yes, by all means, lets give the Minneapolis police department a big round applause for a job well done.  I wonder if they catch robbers or if they just wait for civilians to tackle them and then collect the robbers and take the credit.
 
Sarcasm aside, people are right to protest.  We need lasting structural reform of our police departments in order to counteract systematic racism, and officers with multiple complaints against them like Derek Chauvin shouldn't still be working in law enforcement.  These changes will not happen if people settle for charges being brought against Chauvin and call it a day.  They also won't happen from a some sternly worded letters to the editor, or peaceful speeches that the local newspaper might mention on page eight if even there.  No, for change to come, people are going to have to be loud and forceful.  They are going to sometimes have to refuse to disperse just because law enforcement told them to.      
 
 

Yeah.  As frustrated I am at the damage, the tactics being used on the protesters is a lot scarier to me.

I agree on the looting and general rioting.  There are tactics being used that seem almost like they are encouraging that.  Given some incidents in past protests, I'm not surprised.  I've had to learn a lot about 'walking routes' versus 'kettling' the last few days.
 
People are also suggesting its police leaving out bricks as 'lures', but I haven't a clue.  I do know it takes a lot of resources to leave out the amount of 'weapons' in some of those locations, so whoever is doing it is willing to spend money and time/resources.  I'm sure there are a fair share of assholes too.
 
The point you are making is literally why these actions are being done, though, whoever it is.  It's very often done as sabotage for public causes, and it takes incredibly strong leadership at every location to control a protest this large.  That's just not going to happen, and history shows that even with figures like MLK, that doesn't happen then.  (the rioting after he died was a thing)
 
I've been thinking about that in the context of the 99% protests, and how effective it is to get an 'intentionally crazy/bad person' in front of the camera to babble nonsense about your cause.
 
There's also a definite presence of white supremacists in these riots too, which is why the statement "many of whom are black" does not surprise me.
 
But I also know there are general looters and rioters - we've had a few arrests here over that, too.
 
It's all of this I'm talking about when I'm talking about tactics.  You are talking about 'doing it better', but I think it's literally impossible now.  Protest is dead.
(edit- adjusted for tone/point)
----
 
As far as intent, what I've gathered is this isn't really about one black person being dead.  It's about black people being treated as "violent, armed offenders" in nearly every situation.
 
But it's also about the fact that you have millions out of work because of coronavirus, and having never had the opportunity to go out and protest in years or decades before.  It's a pretty known 'population control' strategy to keep people overworked and underpaid juuuust enough.  But now I'm getting really cynical.

This is just silly. Does the person who wrote this think that you can equip a force with riot gear on the fly? I wore full riot gear to stand on the line when the base already had a pre-arrangement with perfectly peaceful protestors to stand out a while, then cross our property line to be arrested so they could get their protestor cred. If you don't have riot gear on before the riot, you won't have it on if one erupts.

Well so far they've killed 11-12 people - many of whom were black.  David Dorn being a real standout.  Even George Floyd's brother is asking for the rioting and looting to stop.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/us/david-dorn-st-louis-police-shot-trnd/index.html
 
https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/at-least-11-killed-during-u-s-protests-seeking-justice-for-george-floyd-many-of-them-african-americans/
 
And I want to be clear.  The dirt bag that kneeled on Geoge Floyd's neck for 9 minutes and his 3 police buddies that didn't intervene deserve harsh justice.  They are currently all charged and they need to be convicted.
If I kneeled on that cops neck for 9 minutes he wouldn't need trial.  Total scumbag.
 
Still, I can't help but think that killing back civilians and role models like David Dorn and thrashing local businesses isn't going to help.  And whoever is piling up bricks, pipes and bottles full of gasoline for the protesters deserves his own level in hell.
 
It's a serious issue that desperately needs addressing, but it needs social buy in and support.  The more innocents that die and the more buildings that burn the more support for military action goes up in the polls.  I don't want to find out if the man in front of the church will pull that lever if pushed hard enough - because I'm afraid he will.
 

In related news I surved my 45 min, no 90 min, no 3 hour surgical procedure after they found a lot of collateral damage in my shoulder.
 
Apparently sports & martial arts are bad for your joints.  Don't tell the high schools and colleges.
 
Propofol is awesome - Nice clean drop off to sleep and I woke up battling space pirates (not joking).  Also, my blood pressure dropped 30 points while I was doped up so apparently it's really good for me.
 
My anesthesiologist is so good he was able to paralyze the three nerves in my arm with a slow release medicine that leaves my fingers functional.  I can't move my arm at all, but I can type.  I literally didn't believe this was possible until today.
it's strangely specific.  I can move my fingers, but I can't rotate my hand.
 
My shoulder hurts, but so it's so much less than when my nerve was being crushed I give it exactly 0 sh*ts.
 
My nurses were both sweet as can be.  Except the older one who was so comfortable poking my belly after I mentioned liposuction it was like she was playing with one of her grand kids.  Like it would have gotten a male nurse fired. 
 
I will be drugged out of my gourd for a week and won't be allowed to lift anything with my left arm for 4 weeks.  This is going to require a restraint in bed as I roll over in bed - in place - by bridge up on my neck and one hand wrestler style and rotating my hips.  I do that on my newly attached bicep tendon and I will  be back in surgery.
 
Also, I had to fill out like 72 forms (exaggeration) related to Coronavirus.  Including one that said you might catch it by having surgery here.  I was all, "Don't you clean sh*t after surgery?".
 
Texas Orthopedic Association was fine (hand sanitizer, fever check, mandatory use of their masks - not your own).
Texas Back Institute was dumb - the doctor was amazing, but the Coronavirus rules were stupid.  fever check - hand sanitizer - their mask - and then GLOVES.  I asked the lady as nicely as possible, "Ma'am, what was the hand sanitizer for if I'm going to wear gloves?".  She gave my least favorite answer in the universe - "Those are the rules."  Thinking should be a rule.  Good bosses like thinking employees and bosses who don't - shouldn't have employees.
 
So, hopefully, 10 days from now I don't bust out a lethal fever after getting 15 years of damage scraped off my shoulder. 
 

Notice how no one is discussing Trump's mishandling of COVID-19 right now? He's consistent at sparking new outrage to distract us from his old outrage.

From the pictures that I have seen the spray painting seems to be limited to concrete structures near what we generally think of as the actual monument and not on the marble structures.

The article cited by Yahoo is here:
https://elemental.medium.com/coronavirus-may-be-a-blood-vessel-disease-which-explains-everything-2c4032481ab2
 
Somewhat more technical but still, overall, approachable.  And very, very scary...but also opens the door for some interesting treatment options, and therapeutic regimens that work against the general kind of damage they're suggesting.  That is potentially very good news.

You have a lot of experience with spray painting monuments, hmm? We'll have to look into that....
 
Seriously, though: I don't see the problem with guarding the monuments, though I understand that with this particular moron in chief, it's only a piece of the larger picture. IMO, the shenanigans in front of the White House are the bigger concern, and what should be focused on.

First, good luck.
 
Second, that is about what I would expect to see in the chart.  We reopen and things go smooth.  Because the virus is asymptomatic for 10-14 days.  By then, many have decided we're reopened, life is back to normal, forget masks and social distancing.
 
My understanding is that the history of pandemics always sees a second wave worse than the first.  Sadly, history tends to repeat itself if we fail to learn from it...and we are, as a species, very slow learners.
 
Alberta moved to Phase 1 reopening last week, so I am concerned our graph is about 3 weeks behind yours.  Although we have managed to avoid the brunt of the virus to date.