Sketchpad

On 6/25/2023 at 7:25 PM, Mark Rand said:

One staffer is always in the entrance area, checking IDs.  If someone's under 21, they get a bracelet that says so.  If someone shows a false ID, the ID is confiscated and turned over to the police.

A bar that caters to lawbreakers checking IDs for younger beings seems a bit odd to me.

On 6/18/2023 at 8:03 AM, Cloppy Clip said:

I'm away from my books at the moment, but do Resource points work the same way as equipment meaning you'd be limited to the sorts of things anybody could reasonably buy in a setting? Because, if so, it might help to think about how you envision the setting, marcusxbaer. If it makes sense to you that a given thing from Gadgets and Gear would be available for anybody with the right access to buy then it would be valid for your Resource points. This way you can adapt the rules to different settings as needs be.

 

Hope I've understood the question correctly, and apologies if not!

This is the way I read the question as well. In my superhero campaign, certain things can be bought with RPs, and others can't. For example, if you want an unstable uniform, or a costume with a limited amount of armor, I typically allow players to buy them with RPs (which I've renamed Gear Points in my game). 

On 6/9/2023 at 11:26 PM, Lord Liaden said:

To represent the long-term problems caused by stress and sustained fear, many Horror Hero GMs come up with a new Figured Characteristic to represent a character’s capacity to withstand the effects of horror. For example, you might create a Sanity (SAN) Figured Characteristic, derived from EGO + (PRE/2) + (CON/2). Characters lose Sanity like they lose STUN, but only from effects that are particularly terrifying, gruesome, or disturbing — the GM assigns a “Sanity Damage” rating (in d6) to each such phenomena. If a character drops to 0 SAN, he snaps and becomes completely insane (and an NPC under the GM’s control) until he recovers his wits. Characters may regain lost SAN with REC, just like STUN, but do not get Post-Segment 12 Recoveries and can only make SAN Recoveries when they are in calming, non-stressful, non-frightening situations (i.e., rarely in the middle of a scenario, but only between adventures). Many other versions of SAN (or the like) are possible; each GM sets it up to represent the feelings of horror he most wants to simulate.

It's an interesting idea, LL. How would you bring that into a non-figured characteristic 6th ed? Would characters begin with XX SAN?

On 6/10/2023 at 7:46 PM, Doc Democracy said:

We do often leap to additional systems rather than adapting what we have.

On 6/11/2023 at 4:28 PM, steriaca said:

I believe the suplilment Horror Hero for 4ed had Sanity rules. It also was the first place to see Spirit rules.

That's why I was referencing Horror Hero in my initial post, Doc and Steriaca. I'm wondering if there is some validity to bringing the systems presented in that sourcebook forward to 6th ed, or should there be something new created?

Hmm... I would think creating a SAN stat that works a bit like Mental STUN would be more along the Call of Cthulhu lines. I believe I've seen a few other folks try that in HERO a few years (decades?) back. 

On 6/6/2023 at 11:00 PM, Duke Bushido said:

So let's explore a couple of other things:

 

Presence defends against shock as it does a Presence Attack.  Intelligence defends against Stress.

 

Shock "damage" affects EGO-  either you can directly "damage" EGO, or you can assign a damage stat that defaults to "equal to EGO" and then determine what happens when that stat gets to Zero or whatever levels you want effects to occur. 

 

Stress, at least basing it on job and child-rearing experience, damages Intelligence (determine how it recovers is up to you.)

 

I would let both of these factors (or just the one that you want to most play-up in the game) contribute to a "sanity" or "personality schism" or what-have-you akin to Long Term Enduranve or Fatigue or whatever it is that 6e is calling it.

I would think that EGO would be better to defend against Fear-Based PRE Attacks. 

EGO Damage is an interesting idea. Would you basically use it akin to BODY? 

Not sure if I agree on INT damage. 

I think in the long run, I was interpreting the rules less like CoC's SAN, and more like lasting Fear, particularly the section on situational PRE-Attacks.

Hello Herodom! For those that have used it, what is your opinion of the Shock & Stress system in Horror Hero? Do you think there's a better way of approaching such concepts in 6th ed? 

2 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I just heard on Dungeoncraft at someone wrote up a neat houserule cheap PDF called Luck Dice. Basically everytime you whiff you earn a luck die which you can cash in later to do something epic, if you live that long.

I've been playing with something similar. Rather than reflect missing, it rewards people for playing heroic, bringing snacks, etc. 

EDIT: I should also note that some villains get a variation of this as well. Makes things interesting. 

10 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

To that end, I offer a quick breakdown of how we do the ship-to-ship stuff where I use a similar idea:

That's an interesting idea, Duke. Does it slow things down?

19 hours ago, Word Sensei 515 said:

If you want more volatility, just roll 1d20's instead of 3d6's. The range & distribution is different, but the average is the same.  STUN / 7 = BOD normal damage.

9 DC's normal & killing attacks would be 3d20 & 1d20; that's a good limit. If you want more, roll percentile dice & reroll anything over maximum stun damage.

You could even use this for attack rolls Instead of your chances ever getting bad, they remain good, paid for with giving the proficient chances to missIt actually makes things fairer for everyone, the differences are still their but they are less insurmountable, mooks & bricks can actually hit

 

Thanks, WS515, but I'd rather avoid the d20s. 

22 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

I think the variation and the increased chances of nothing AND higher damage is EXACTLY what @Sketchpad was aiming at here.

 

HERO can be a bit staid and predictable, fights coming to long drawn-out affairs because everyone has done their math.

 

Injecting uncertainty is not that terrible when it comes to combat.  Slowing things down definitely is.

 

Doc

 

See, I've never had a big problem with things slowing down a bit. It's not really a damage issue that I'm looking at, but rather having a more variable concept when it came to EGO/PRE static defenses. The STAT+X stuff works just fine, but I was looking to see if it could be less static. 

22 hours ago, Grow-Arm-Hair Lad said:

I feel like I've seen people talking about this in the forums, and that there are a few people who do this, but I'll be darned if I can mine up any threads.

 

I want to start using xp as Fate Points or how Karma is used in Faserip. I think I want it to be that you can burn an unused xp to increase a roll by one. Does anyone do this? If so, how does it work in your game?

I've played around with both HAPs and using something similar to Hero Points from Mutants & Masterminds in my campaigns. HAPs are a bit more like Karma for me, and might do what you're looking for. 

14 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

There is always the option of making the PRE attacks of various horrors fixed.  You might vary the number of dice in the attack but use standard effect so that the heroes roll to attack and roll to defend. 

 

It takes the dice out the hands of the GM and always in the hands of players.

I considered that as well. The only issue that I've found is the static-ness of it, which is what I was looking to avoid. 

11 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

@Sketchpad the reason no one has experience with this is because it is a very bad idea. 

Wow. Thanks, Lone Wolf. I guess I'll just abandon my thoughts of playing a game based on my bad ideas. I didn't even bother reading the rest of your post based on that line. You know, folks, I get that we're not really running the same style of game here, but maybe everyone should take a moment and consider that. This is why I was looking for anyone who may have used the system in this manner. I've crunched the numbers and looked at the probability. I realize I don't live on these boards, but this is far from my first foray with Hero. 

My end goal is to see if there were other ways to push the Hero System beyond its normal confines. Partly because I'm always trying to get new players/GMs to look at the game (and hoping that I can find a common thread to bring them in through), and partly because I like seeing how I can use the systems in different ways. 

So if you're playing a game of Horror Hero, the players are dependent on what the GM rolls for PRE Attacks. That seems a bit bland, don't you think? I would imagine a more dynamic roll structure that the players make would be exciting and put some of the action in the player's hands.

10 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

So instead of 25 net PRE, I have 5d6, or 17, to resist his 8d6 attack?  I'm hosed.

 

Same with the EGO.  Instead of 35, I've got 29 average.

 

For PRE, I buy the PRE I want for my social skill roll, probably, then buy Fearless.  (Unless you're a big fan of making PRE attacks.)

For EGO, I'd only buy it for the breakout roll (like against Mental Illusion) and then just buy Mental Def.  The Mental Def is 5 points of DEF for 5 points;  buying the EGO gives only 3.5 points, and there aren't that many other situations that call for it.  Under RAW, the fact that Mental Def is the same price as EGO, is a bit of a problem;  Mental Def is arguably MORE likely to matter, in that it's the defense versus Mental Attack, and AVADs versus MD.  I'd tend to think those are more common than lockdown mental illusions or mental entangles;  mental entangles are pretty seriously expensive, mental illusions have always looked to be tenuous, given that there's a breakout roll before anything happens, and even if the victim has only a 13 EGO, it's 12-.  That's almost 75% to succeed.  Oh, DOH.  If you're going with a Mentalist, AND you want your initiative based off EGO, you'll value spending on EGO more, but that's a pretty specific build pattern.

 

To a point, the rules already favor doing both of these, but you're making them even more advantageous because you're making the underlying characteristic only 70% effective in its defensive aspect.  

Is Fearless extra PRE bought as "Defense Only"? 
On Mental Defense, if it's that much a breaker, then just add it to EGO before dividing. 

To refer back to my original post, I'm taking from the discussion that no one has actually done it, and that numbers are being thrown around to deter? I appreciate the speculation, but I'm looking for experience with it. 

15 hours ago, unclevlad said:

And what kind of opposed roll are you considering?

 

How are you accounting for, say, 10 dice of mind control vs. 15 dice, or on the defensive side 0 Mental Def vs. 20 Mental Def?

Take, for example, a PRE Attack. 

Bill the Ghost Hunter is facing down the Ghost of Old Man Machen at Machen Manor. In the initial turn, Machen makes a PRE Attack of 8d6. Bill attempts to resist and has a PRE 15, plus "Fearless: +10 PRE (Defense Only)". This gives him a 25 PRE, or 5d6 PRE Defense. The two roll and compare as normal. 

Mental Defense would add to the EGO roll to resist. 

Mento the Brain Freshener attempts to take mental control of Captain Captain. He successfully makes an attack and rolls his 12d6 Mind Control. the good Captain resists with an EGO 20, plus 15 points of Mental Defense. This would give him 4d6+15 to resist.  

53 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

What change in the mechanics or feel are you trying to achieve?  With no objective in mind, this feels like a solution in search of a problem.

I would've thought that was a bit clear. Rather than having a static number as defense, I'm curious how a random number would interact with the checks. Having players make a "Defense Check" could also create an interesting variable, particularly in Heroic campaigns where stats are a bit limited. Making a Fear Check, for example, could benefit from a random check, as they may succeed against something, and fail against another depending on the check. 

I had a stray thought on my way into work today. Has anyone rolled for their Presence or Ego Defenses? Instead of rolling against the base stat, have you broken it down and rolled opposing checks to determine the result of something like a PRE Attack or Mind Control? If so, how did it work for you?

10 hours ago, greypaladin_01 said:

The best example I can think of was how Instant Change was just it's own thing up through 4th Edition costing 5/10 points depending on just how much you could alter your clothing.   However starting in 5th edition it was removed and instead turned into something like Transform: 1d6 (a dozen modifiers and advantages/limitations)  that made the cost result to something like 6/12.    Was there REALLY a need to complicate things to that level and was the 1-2 point increase that vital to 'balance'?

I never quite understood this one either. In the games I've been working on, I've brought back a variation of the 4th ed Instant Change and made it a Talent. 

17 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

See, if I was going to buy into this, I would have Deduction 3 reduce the moderate difficulty of 6 down to average difficulty 3, and then roll the standard 3 dice. It takes away the potential for the expert to roll a result of 12 but it better demonstrates the value of the skill. 

 

I would also not make the skilled character roll for an average difficulty task, their skill has reduced it to 0 difficulty, play into the competence...

 

GM: As you are walking through the Great Hall you can see there are doorways and galleries stretching away into shadowed recesses.

 

Player: Great place for an ambush, can I see any sign of one.

 

The GM knows there are 3 archers in two of the upper galleries (moderate difficulty check) and a more poorly hidden (average difficulty) swordsman lurking near a doorway.

 

GM: "what's your perception? 3?  Quite impressive!  You can see a swordsman near a doorway to your left, roll the dice to check if he has back up."

Fun idea, Doc.

13 hours ago, unclevlad said:

I'm hearing far too much complication for the sake of very little gain.  You'd have a totally different system.  The roll's based on Target Number OR LESS, so how would adding dice even work?  What's the target number, how does a characteristic play into it?  If the skill check stays the same and you have to make multiple checks, that slows play down tremendously.

 

I've played Storyteller, Shadowrun, and some L5R with exploding dice and Roll X, Keep Y.  I'm not entirely convinced any of them are an *improvement*...and all of them use notably different underpinnings.  Some of em might even make really good supers systems, if you strip out the genre stuff and use the supers environment of your choice.  (Golden Age, SIlver Age, more modern comic, urban fantasy generally, or a specific supers universe from a book series, as most have their quirks.)  But I don't want to cobble an approach from any of them, into a structure that wasn't intended to use it.  

How does any of this actually pertain to Hero as written? Doesn't much of what's being discussed here technically change the system beyond what we're using? How would rolling extra dice slow down play any more than, say, rolling damage? To me, it looks like we're changing some of the basic rules of Hero. 

It's an interesting idea. Skills could be easy enough to implement in as an adder to the effects. You may want to use a Difficulty system, like needing 6 successes (aka BODY) to achieve a moderate action. Skills could add to this, or even add more dice into the check. So if you have a INT 15, rolling 3d6 for the roll, but also have Deduction 3, this may add 3 more dice in, rolling 6d6 when making Deduction checks. 

On 5/5/2023 at 12:19 AM, Duke Bushido said:

Oh, Dude!

 

Did you ever ask the right guy.

 

Problem,is still the same, though.  File was done at 1200 DPI (for hyper-crisp printing) and my computer still hates Dropbox.

 

I think I still have your address, but just in case, shoot me a PM and I will get a flash Drive in the mail.

 

If I can get the scanner up and going again, I would like to give you at least the correct 1e character sheets as well.

 

 

Duke, could you upload it somewhere else? I can shrink the size a bit if needed. How big would the single page be? I can't see it be GBs worth of info...

I believe I still have them (and have had a few sets over the years). Used them for a while in one game, but lost the set and had to find another. Denis Loubet did do some other work at Hero, particularly in the original Strike Force book. 

Honestly, I would love to see something more like Paizo's Pawns made for Hero along with some hex bases.

I'd love to find the docs for this. Have my program, but lost the book some time ago along with me GMAid for Hero. 

22 hours ago, Scott Ruggels said:

I am trying to get Heromakr.exe to work again on a Win 10 machine so as to build 4e and earlier characters, but so far Ave only been partially successful.  

Couldn't you use something like DOSBox to run it?

1 hour ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

To me, it is a build sheet, one with ALL the numbers. Useful between sessions but less useful on play.

 

I prefer stripping away the extraneous details and numbers.  Almost no-one but the GM needs to know the real points of powers or skills.

I agree, Doc. I've been working on a new layout for stats that strips the numbers out. 

7 hours ago, dean day said:

No what I was getting at was, If i wanted to simulate slow growth on a character that has been active x amount of years and spend those XP at the end of each year active what ranges would be appropriate?

 

Lets just say for example we have a spider-man type young hero that's been active four years, if I wanted to spend some xp for him at the end of each year how much would be appropriate in a range?

If I understand the question correctly, you're looking to enhance NPCs after X amount of time has passed in the game? I tend to give NPCs some XP as needed. If a starting villain needs to be bumped a bit when they return, I give them what they need to help the concept. So, using the same example, if the young Spider-Dude, as an NPC, needs to be mildly experience Spider-Dude, I would bump him up by looking at what he needs to be. So maybe he originally had an OCV of 6. I may increase that up a few ranks, or even give him some levels to show more experience. The same could be about his Web Tricks powers. Maybe a few raised d6s, or maybe he learned some new tricks. 

It's always better to envision what the character should be, and how their stats reflect that.

Does anyone remember the name of it?