Metaphysician

OTOH, the standard haymaker setup limitations would, IMHO, mitigate the combat-utility of these more-powerful haymakers. Certainly, you *could* create a character designed around setting up his own haymakers, but it probably wouldn't be easy.

Personally, I'd up all the members of Unity by about 100 points or so. That would let them take on pretty much any of the villain teams on even or better terms, as well as stand better chances against the lower tier Master Villains ( Gravitar, Warlord ). OTOH, I think people are underestimating their actual capability. Dr White and Dr Black may not be able to exceed 12 DC damage, but they can pull out basically any 60 point construct you can imagine. I'd much rather have that ability than the ability to toss out 15d6 energy blasts. That said, I don't mind there being powerful teams in the setting, and even think Champions U needs more powerful heroes ( or at least acknowledgement of such that probably already exist ). Lets face it: 350 point heroes are roughly the equivalent of the New Warriors or New Teen Titans. They are *not* powerful, and no one sane should expect that 350 point heroes be the main thing standing between, say, Doctor Destroyer and world conquest.

It seems to me that the best way to build a supermage is to give them both a VPP and a multipower. The multipower contains the mages most powerful signature spells, while the VPP is used for the many and sundry somewhat weaker magics.

Assuming I keep the same personality, the Powers That Be are gonna *HATE* Microman II. Not only is he probably one of the best computer hackers in the world, but any place thats wired open to him if he knows it exists, or can find its online equivalent location.

The real benefit with this idea for Haymaker's is that you can actually inflict damage on objects with normal attacks. While normal attacks have roughly equal theoretical max Body damage, the actual range of Body damage inflict is insanely narrow. For all intents and purposes, a 12 Def object is immune to 10d6 normal attacks.

I wouldn't exactly categorize Mentiac as a mentalist. He's more strictly a supergenius, who just happens to use a few mental powers as the base for some of his smarts power constructs.

Through various acts of the plot gods, you and your super team are now in direct conflict with the entirety of Unity ( Quasar, Dr Black, Dr White, Mentiac, Myrmidon, El Picaro ). Which team walks away from this fight??

I posted my alternate haymaker rule idea over on Rules Discussion.

From the Champions board, an idea for an alternate Haymaker rule: Basically, the haymaker works as currently except for the damage. Specifically, the number of damage classes is increased to 1.5x normal. *However,* the damage rolled cannot exceed the theoretical maximum damage for the base attack before haymaker. IOW, a 20d6 punch, haymakered to 30d6, could still not inflict more than 40 Body and 120 Stun. The rules for setting up, and disrupting, a haymaker remain the same. Thoughts??

Somehow, I don't think that'll make you popular with the locals. Especially if Takofanes then retaliates against your impudience by VPPing up a megascale mind control vs undead, thats just strong enough to totally dominate 5 point deaders.

True, its a "DM approval" power construct, but it fits the character perfectly, and the contents of the database are subject to DM discretion. Besides, its a 750 point campaign; more leeway is required for high-powered characters. ( translation: the team already has a Damage Reduction/Absorbtion combo, a 0 END LoS 80 point Cosmic Power Pool, a 135 point Psionic Power Pool, an 80 point Psionic Cosmic Power Pool, a 30 point Gadget pool than can effectively be changed at will, and multiple different NNDs; a little 6 point skill pool isn't gonna break anything. . . )

Yes, I cannot remember the 5th Ed haymaker rules clearly. I *thought* they only applied to strength-based attacks, and had the effect of increasing the strength bonus by 1.5 ( and using the DC rules for KAs ). How do they work, then, for non-strength based attacks?? Or, better, just what are the 5th Ed haymaker rules, period??

My character, Microman II, has two multipowers and a VPP. The mulitpowers are his Shrink Tricks ( stuff like Desolid and Microverse travel ), and Utility Powers ( miscellaneous internal gadgets and weapons ). the VPP is a Skill Pool. I while you could theoretically combine the two mpp, it would make no sense in terms of sfx, which to me, is the most important determinant.

I couldn't completely make out the deal with 4th vs 5th ed haymakers, and don't have my corebook with me but it seems like there needs be some mechanic to "haymaker" non-hand to hand attacks. Perhaps use the 1.5 times DC rule, but with a limit that the haymaker can't do more than the theoretical maximum of the base attack?? IOW, Firewing and his 20d6 EB. On average it inflicts 20 Body and 70 Stun. Theoretically, it could inflict 40 Body and 120 Stun. If he Haymakered, he'd roll 30d6, for an average of 30 Body and 105 Stun. However, no matter how high he rolled, he couldn't exceed 40 Body, 120 Stun. This has the additional effect of evening out normal vs killing attacks a bit, since normal attacks would benefit alot more against objects.

Re: Oh how I miss those Braincells Huh?? Are you saying your characters range from 140 to 340 points??

Re: Re: Elemental Control: My Take Sounds workable. Especially the requirement that all slots be viable targets for the adjust.

Yep, the Avenger cannon is *sick*. Forget killing tanks, you could kill a cruiser with that thing.

Okay, I got the gist of Ye Old EC Debate, and came to a few conclusions of my own: 1. Yes, all EC slots should be Adjusted as one. If the powers are all "tightly bound" enough together to qualify for EC, the applicable special effect should be such that drains work on the lot of them. Then again, this should *also* mean Aids work on them all, too. . . 2. The "Must Cost END" limit should be tossed out. It is more or less completely arbitrary. 3. The only AP limit should be the "all powers must cost at least douple the AP of the EC pool." If you want a power that has 50 points higher AP than the minimum, fine. 4. Like with all Frameworks, ECs need careful GM analysis for validity and balance. In my mind, an EC is just like a Multipower, in that its a mechanic to represent what is essentially one special effect/power source that can do many things. Its just that unlike a multipower, an EC doesn't have to pick and choose which one it does, it can do them all. Hence why it lacks the same degree of point break that a multipower gives. Similarly, any usage of non-Standard powers in the EC definitely needs DM approval. If you wanna include Levels in an EC, or Flash Defense, you'd better come up with a damn good reason.

Sounds to me like the damage-to-structures rule needs some alteration. . .

At which point, Seeker isn't dating her in the slightest, and is perfectly free to date and wed Solitaire in the late 80s/early 90s.

19. Of course, thats not defense, now is it??

Um, if this tank you have been referring to is 40 defense, than its not the M1 Abrams from the corebook, which only has 20 defense. If it *is* a sci-fi tank, why are you complaining about it surviving an "unrealistically" high fall?? As for nukes, only nuke writeup I recall from the book is the 20d6 RKA, Megascale. Mind telling me how that would blow up the Earth??

How about ditching the Reputation??

Except that in this little world, Seeker's free dating period predated Green Dragon's arrival by, oh, about a decade and a half.

Why, pray tell me, should organizations be magically forbidden from having agents and operatives above a certain level of competence ( point value )?? Its not like they can have many; 350 points is more less the equivalent of an upper end special forces trooper. Besides, if you drop a squad of properly equipped Delta Force ( or VIPER Superhuman Combat Specialists. . . ) on the Champions, they *should* win.