Metaphysician

No, but the point stands. Besides, the Abomination is a good deal above the average super hero, too.

Yeah, but thats because the writers conveniently "forget" that the characters have superspeed. That is just as annoying.

Now, now, everybody already knows that you are *supposed* to buy all the Champions sourcebooks available. :-)

Not only that, but Wasp's sting is probably a multipower, with a couple different fire modes. She's also got the best leadership skills in the Avengers short of Cap. Oh, and I've rethought Sue's main force wall; it would be better built on an ( albeit complex ) Force Field variant to fit the effect ( easy to maintain, very powerful protection, but lots of feedback ). Edit: I've also been ignoring Bases and Vehicles. Otherwise, you'd be looking at about another couple hundred points each, and the "default" setting option seems to be "Base and Vehicle points gratis with DM approval." Likewise, I've been assuming relatively generous DM adjudication of Power Skill usage.

Actually, Rick Jones can take down monsters several times bigger than him with just HtH fighting skill. Bad example.

Ever read any of Thor's own comics?? He's tossing at least as much firepower as the JLA. I will repeat: the only thing the JLA has that the Avengers do not usually have is relativistic superspeed.

Considering that he's enough of an uberninja wuxia badass to run across the ground without, well, touching the ground, 52 MPH sprinting doesn't seem unreasonable. And Seeker needed some update work, at least, since several of his powers and abilities at the very least had cost change.

The problem with trying to stat them for 500, well, look at Teleios. While Reed doesn't have as high of overall characteristics, or the martial arts, his tech pool, while arguably smaller than Teleios' ( about 100 points ) makes up for that in versatility ( basically, he can do any science trick or feat he wants ). Also, he's got an even more hideous skill list, *AND* fairly extensive EC and multipower for his elasticity. Remember, he is *not* unlearned in using his innate powers, he has many many tricks with it. IOW, I cannot see Reed being any cheaper than Teleios. Ben has already been described. Bricks are cheap. Highly Skilled Warrior Bricks with well-rounded skillsets are not cheap. Plus, he probably has brick trick powers ( at least the grand slam improvised melee weapon attack and giftwrapping ). As for Sue and Johnny, they have simple constructs, just hideously powerful and expensive ones. See above for what Johnny's Nova Flame would look like. Sue's got a Force Wall slot of about equal power.

Um, remember, RKAs normally have a stun multiplier of 1d6-1, or an average of 2.5

Um, the Fantastic Four *predate* the Avengers. They, by definition, are more experienced than 2/3rds of the Avengers you mentioned. And I can agree with your sentiment, somewhat; its just I don't see any accurate conversion being much under 750 points. Even the Thing combined high end ( by Champions standards ) brick abilities plus considerable combat skill.

People develop their reflexes and agility all the time. What do you think an olympic gymnast is doing?? And yes, the Dex and Speed are straight out of the Watchers of the Dragon writeup. Thats how fast and agile he's supposed to be.

Pet peeve of mine: No, characters are *NOT* as strong or as weak as you need or want them to be. They are as strong or as weak as an accurate conversion of them would be. If you don't want them to be 750 points, then don't use them. Use somebody else. If you are going to convert characters, convert them accurately.

Since it apparently hasn't been done before, at least on this board, I present to you: Seeker, in 5th Edition. ( With thanks to ChuckG for help in conversion ). Name Seeker 15 STR 25 800 kg; 5d6 [2] 57 DEX 29 OCV 10 30 CON 25 DCV 10 10 BODY 15 3 INT 13 PER 12- ( 15- Total ) 8 EGO 14 ECV 5 10 PRE 20 Pre 4d6 5 COM 20 13 PD 18 Total PD: 18 10 ED 15 Total ED: 15 31 SPD 7 Phases: 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12 0 REC 10 0 END 50 1 STUN 41 Movement: Running: 10"/20" Swimming: 4"/8" Leaping: 10"/20" END Powers, Abilities, Equipment: 10 Combat Skill: +2 Levels with HtH 16 Combat Skill: +2 Levels with All Combat Martial Arts- Ninjutsu, Jujutsu, Karate, Kung Fu 4 Atemi Strike: -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 2d6 NND ( 1 ) 4 Block: +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort 5 Choke Hold: -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb; 2d6 NND (2) 4 Disarm: -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 50 STR Disarm 4 Dodge: +5 DCV, Dodge All Attacks, Abort 4 Escape: +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 55 STR Escape 4 Joint Lock: -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 50 STR for holding on 5 Joint Break: -1 OCV, -2 DCV, Grab One Limb, 1d6 HKA ( 2d6 /w STR ), Disable 5 Kick: -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 12d6 4 Punch: +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 10d6 3 Throw: +0 OCV, +1 DCV, 8d6 + v/5; Target Falls 12 +3 Damage Classes ( Already Factored In ) 4 Use Arts with Blades, Clubs, Karate Weapons, Three-Section Staff 2 Stances- Multipower ( 3 point pool ), Costs END ( -1/2) 1u Cat Stance- Lightning Reflexes +2, Costs END (-1/2) 1 1u Crane Stance- +1 OCV /w Block, Requires a DEX Roll (-1/4), Costs END (-1/2) 1 1u Horse Stance- -1" Knockback Resistance, Costs END (-1/2) 1 30 Martial Arts Weapons- Multipower ( 45 point pool ), OIF ( -1/2) 2u Katana- HKA 2d6 ( 3.5d6 /w STR ), Ranged ( Can be Thrown, +1/2) (45 AP); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), Range Based on STR (-1/4) 3+ 1u Triple Irons- HA +3D6 (15 AP), OAF (-1), HtH Attack (-1/2); plus 1" Stretching, 0 END (+1/2) (7 AP); OAF (-1), No NC Stretching (-1/4), Only to Cause Damage (-1/2), Always Direct (-1/4), No Velocity Damage (-1/4); plus +2 OCV (10 AP), OAF (-1), Only for Block, Disarm, Bind (-1/2) 1+ 2u Sai ( Blunt Strike )- HA +3d6, Ranged ( Can be Thrown +1/2) (22 AP), OAF (-1), HtH Attack (-1/2), Range Based on STR (-1/4); plus +2 OCV (10 AP), OAF (-1), Only to Block, Disarm, Bind (-1/2); x2 Foci (+5 adder) 1+ 2u Sai ( Point )- HKA 1/2d6 ( 1d6+1 /w STR ), Ranged ( Can be Thrown +1/2) (15 AP), OAF (-1), Range Based on STR (-1/4); plus +2 OCV (10 AP), OAF (-1), Only to Block, Disarm, Bind (-1/2); x2 Foci (+5 adder ) 1+ 1u Shuriken- HKA 1/2d6 ( 1d6+1 /w STR ), Autofire 3 shots (+1/4), Ranged (+1/2), 9 Recoverable Charges (+1/4) (20 AP); OAF (-1), No Knockback (-1/4), Range Based on STR (-1/4) [9rc] 13 Pain Resistant- Damage Reduction, 25% Resistant, Physical and Energy, Must Be Aware of Attack (-1/4), STUN Only (-1/2), Requires a CON Roll (-1/2) 5 Strength of Will- Mental Defenses 5 ( 8 Points Total ) 22 Sense Ch'i- Detect Ch'i, Sense, 360 Degree Perception, Ranged, Discriminatory 9 Enhanced Perception: +3 with all PER Rolls 5 Hing Kung: Glidng 6", Ground Gliding (-1/4) 1/5" 7 Dontonjutsu ( Earth Concealment Technique ): Tuneling 1", Fill In, Maximum 1 1" tunneled (-1) 5 Superleap: Leaping +5" ( 10" total ) 1/5" 8 Running +4" ( 10" Total ) 1/5" 2 Swimming +2" ( 4" Total ) 1/5" 10 Luck 2d6 2 Immunity: Coral Snake Venom, Jellyfish Venom Talents/Perks: 16 Combat Luck 13- 3 Lightsleep Combat Skills: 8 Defense Maneuver I-III 6 Weapon Familiarity: Common Melee Weapons, Common Martial Arts Weapons, Three-Section Staff, Off-Hand Agility Skills: 15 Acrobatics, Breakfall, Climbing, Sleight of Hand, Stealth 15- Intellect Skills: 10 Shadowing, Survival, Tracking 13- 8 Analyze Style, Navigation, Tactics 12- Interaction Skills: 3 Well-Connected 10 Favors: 20 points of favors from many and sundry people Background Skills: 8 Languages: English ( native ), Japanese ( Fluent Conversation, Literacy ), Mandarin Chinese ( Basic Conversation, Literacy ), Nohoda Ninja Clan Codes and Symbols ( Fluent Conversation, Literacy ) 3 Scholar 4 KS: Jujutsu, Karate, Kung Fu, Ninjutsu 11- 6 KS: Rhythm & Blues, Philosophy 13- 4 AK: Australian Outback 13- Disadvantages 10 Distinctive Feature: Martial Arts Style ( Concealable, Always Noticed and" Causes Major Reaction, Only Within Martial Arts Community ) 10 DNPC: Current Girlfriend ( normal ) 8- 20 Enraged: When Innocents are Abused ( Common ), Go 11-, Recover 11- 20 Hunted: VIPER ( More Powerful, NCI, Harshly Punish ) 8- 5 Hunted: Red Band of the Nohoda Ninja Clan ( Less Powerful, Harshly Punish ) 8- 5 Hunted: Green Dragon ( Less Powerful, Harshly Punish ) 8- 20 Psych Limitation: Puts Innocents Before Himself ( Common, Total ) 15 Psych Limitation: Code of Honor ( honors honorable foes, punishes dishonorable foes ) ( Common, Strong ) 10 Psych Limitation: Seeks Absolute Truth ( will go into danger to determine absolute philosophic certainty ) ( Uncommon, Strong ) 5 Psych Limitation: Irreverent Wisecracker ( Uncommon, Moderate ) 15 Reputation: Honorable ( Will not break his word ) 14- 10 Rivalry: Other Martial Artists 434 Base + 120 Disadvantages = 554 Total 506 Points Spent Sorry about the slight ugliness in the writeup. I dropped the Champions-specific material, and streamlined some stuff ( namely, I turned the weapons into a multipower ). Now, the writeup is only partly done. Specifically, he's updated to 5th Edition rules, but he still needs some "finishing." Specifically, powers, abilities, skills, etc, that he should have, but doesn't yet. My initial ideas: -At least 3/3 Combat Luck, maybe 6/6. The first is all but certain; Combat Luck was made with Seeker in mind. -Another extra Martial Arts DC: Because I find it morally offensive for Nighthawk to be better at martial arts in any way, shape, or form. :-) -Missile Deflection: At least to the "arrow-catching" level. Fits the character. Any others?? Any thoughts on the rest of the writeup??

Scary thought: Human Torch's Nova Flame. An off the bat attempt to stat it came up like this: 15d6 RKA, Explosion, Personal Immunity, No Range, End Cost x2, Extra Time ( Full Phase ). Active Points 300+, Real Points 158. Definitely gets put in his EC.

Already got my copy.

Quite frankly, Digital Hero is too expensive. As such, to increase readership, some ideas: -Put up the oldest X issues for free download ( say, the first six ) -Rerelease issues in groups of 5-8 as collections, at reduced price ( starting with the oldest, naturally )

Me, I think they'd be a scary powerful superteam, around 750+ points each. Comes with being pretty much the most experienced heroes in the Marvel U. Reed would have INT somewhere between 35 and 50. Every Science Skill that exists. A mix of multipower and EC covering his elasticity abilities. A 100 point technological power pool, though without the usual gadget limitations; he's good at quick tech improvisation. Johnny and Sue are both built on the usual multipower/EC mix, albeit with very hefty point levels in the powers. Ben would be around 80 Strength, around 35 Resistant Defense, and lots of fighting skill and brick tricks.

Another way would be to buy your Strength with Variable Advantage. Only really works if you do all your brick tricks at full strength, though, and could get mighty expensive mighty quick.

Well, if its a team of beginning level heroes, and a squad of Superhuman Combat Specialists, one per one. OTOH, the Champions would have to do something suicidally stupid to get VIPER to sic that kind of force on them.

Thats why I specified the Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans. They may have been teens, but they were hardly inexperienced or weak.

My ideas: -Ironclad, having too many tough fights turning on whether he can get in melee, decides to dust off the marine skills he let atrophy while fighting in the arena, and has Defender acquire him one of PRIMUS or UNTIL's highest power blaster rifles to wield. -Nighthawk gets exposed to an experimental psi-activation drug during a battle with PSI. Gradually, he starts seeing odd things, little things at first, later, visions of the older sister of his that died ( and even brief glimpses of himself pre-scarring ). This gets worse and worse overtime, until he has a near breakdown, when he finally confronts himself, and realizes that he's been hiding the truth from himself: that the second VIPER agent he took down was his sister. Given some time to stabilize after this realization, he eventually figures out that he gained low level telepathic abilities.

Personally, I'd say that 600-850 is about low to mid range Avengers and JLA, with upper end of both being the 900-1000 range. Its just that its been years since we've seen a truly low level JLA team, and most people don't figure the power level averages for the Avengers accurately.

We could use some more stats on the Warlord's troop and vehicle capabilities. The impression I got is that his forces are armor light, aircraft heavy, with lots of airmobile infantry tactics.

Okay, every one of the Champions has a pretty standard schtick. Defender is a powered armor guy, Ironclad is a brick, etc. Presumably, as they gain experience, they will gain greater power in their schtick. However, a little diversification is good. Hence, what if we assumed all will pick up one "secondary schtick," however you care to define it, eventually. This may be a second source of "power," or a type of ability completely different than their current set. What kind of secondary schticks can you think of?? ( I have two, that I will post later )

I don't wanna even think about the level of HA thats on Mjolnir. I can easily see Thor cracking 30d6 with the hammer, *without* using levels. . .